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Gatherings & Competitions

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140 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 7.
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20. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 12:45 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 11:37:
LOL! Pot, meet kettle.

I think it is hilarious that you would advocate for tolerance while being totally intolerant of opposing viewpoints.

Let's take your first complaint, shall we? If gay people would like to express their heartfelt beliefs that what they do is normal and natural, I think we'd both agree they have every right to do so in the public square. If they wanted to do so in a gathering designed to make them feel comfortable, we'd also agree. But do those who believe that what they do is not normal have to be silenced? Do those who don't agree have to acknowledge and approve?

Would you agree that a person who feels that gay behavior is not normal has just as much right to speak about it in the public square? To create places where they feel able to gather and feel "safe" in their opinions? Of course, there would be consequences. Would you support someone being fired or their business being boycotted because they support gay marriage? So how about Chick-Fil-A?

My biggest problem with those who wish to show how much "better" they are than everyone else through their "tolerance" is that they are just hypocrites. Discussion of social issues (especially stuff having to do with gay issues) usually ends up being free-speech-for-me-but-not-for-thee.
You've established already that you're not ok with people being openly gay and "making a big deal of it". But you're ok with Chick-Fil-A making a big deal of being against them? You have no room to call anyone hypocritical.

No one is denying anyone's basic civil rights in this argument. There are no laws that treat gay people differently (cite one if you disagree... I want to see the "if you are hetero then X, if you are homo then Y").
No, the laws are simply written in such a way as to preclude consideration of those who are gay. Much like if we had laws that said you can marry any person of the same color as you. We all still have the same rights, but it's quite obviously a discriminatory law. You can continue to be willfully obtuse about it, but there's really no hiding the fact that it's discrimination, plain and simple. There's no argument against it that isn't based, at its core, on simple prejudice.
 
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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19. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 11:37 Eirikrautha
 
Cutter wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 11:09:

Well I guess it's time to demolish the churches and every other building that's identifiable for holding a specific group because they're obviously way too loud about it, right? So it's ok for some groups to have this sort of stuff so long as you think it's ok, right? I mean you'd never complain about people going to a gun club.
...

Really? Where do you live that there's a gay pride parade every day? Sounds like a fun place to me. Being gay just doesn't happen in a specific place. So yeah, like any other disenfranchised group that's denied basic human and civil rights about certain things you take for granted they should be getting loud about it. You're loud about everything else so why is it ok for you and not them? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

...

No, once they have the same rights everyone else takes for granted and they stop being harassed for simply being who they are they'll shut up.

LOL! Pot, meet kettle.

I think it is hilarious that you would advocate for tolerance while being totally intolerant of opposing viewpoints.

Let's take your first complaint, shall we? If gay people would like to express their heartfelt beliefs that what they do is normal and natural, I think we'd both agree they have every right to do so in the public square. If they wanted to do so in a gathering designed to make them feel comfortable, we'd also agree. But do those who believe that what they do is not normal have to be silenced? Do those who don't agree have to acknowledge and approve?

Would you agree that a person who feels that gay behavior is not normal has just as much right to speak about it in the public square? To create places where they feel able to gather and feel "safe" in their opinions? Of course, there would be consequences. Would you support someone being fired or their business being boycotted because they support gay marriage? So how about Chick-Fil-A?

My biggest problem with those who wish to show how much "better" they are than everyone else through their "tolerance" is that they are just hypocrites. Discussion of social issues (especially stuff having to do with gay issues) usually ends up being free-speech-for-me-but-not-for-thee.

No one is denying anyone's basic civil rights in this argument. There are no laws that treat gay people differently (cite one if you disagree... I want to see the "if you are hetero then X, if you are homo then Y"). They even have the presumption of righteousness in all of the major American media and entertainment outlets (a recent study by a gay magazine found there is a larger percentage of gay characters in primetime than in the US population as a whole. Say the same thing about Catholics, I dare you). Sorry, just don't see how this is a crisis.

There are morons and 13 year-olds playing COD on XboxLive. Wow, what a revelation. Put on your big-girl panties and deal with it...
 
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18. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 11:09 Cutter
 
RailWizard wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 05:48:
You are right tho, this doesn't really affect me, but then neither do my posts affect anyone either. So there really is no issue here. Hooray!

Bigotry, racism, and hatred affect us all.


When did the definition for "openly gay" change to "loudest person in the room"?

Well I guess it's time to demolish the churches and every other building that's identifiable for holding a specific group because they're obviously way too loud about it, right? So it's ok for some groups to have this sort of stuff so long as you think it's ok, right? I mean you'd never complain about people going to a gun club.

Oops guess it does affect me, since it's here on this gaming website, again. Later I may watch TV, and there it will be in whatever show I happen to watch. Tomorrow I'll walk down the street and there it will be again, parading down the road while traffic gets to drive 'around'.

Really? Where do you live that there's a gay pride parade every day? Sounds like a fun place to me. Being gay just doesn't happen in a specific place. So yeah, like any other disenfranchised group that's denied basic human and civil rights about certain things you take for granted they should be getting loud about it. You're loud about everything else so why is it ok for you and not them? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Does the gay community have to be 50% of the population before they will shutup? Because until then, they will be a minority, and this is getting rather old. "Minority". Such an awesome word. Instantly evokes an emotion designed to incite compliance. How did feminists win their battle again? Oh... if only they had such an awesome word to use.

No, once they have the same rights everyone else takes for granted and they stop being harassed for simply being who they are they'll shut up. And those pesky feminists, eh? Life would be so much better and simpler if they had just stayed in the kitchens and bedrooms, right?

hmm mebbe it's crappy analogy time... Imagine you hang out with a bunch of surgeons. They just love to cut into people. Now every time they are around while you are eating, they talk about all the intricate detail of carving people up. Does that sound like fun?

Really? So you hang out with groups of gay people who do nothing but sit around and talk about being gay? How odd, when I'm with my gay friends - of which I have many - we usually just talk about the same shit everyone else talks about.

Of course that does not apply to everyone. I have no doubt I've interacted with gay people and not even known it, and I'm fine with that.

Face it, you're just another bigot and a hypocrite trying to rationalize away your fears and hatreds. You know the upside? It it's learned behavior and you can unlearn it if you want to. Keep reaching for that rainbow, sport.
 
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17. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 09:53 netnerd85
 
The Half Elf wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 20:30:
All I want is a masculine guy, decent shape that games!
That would be my partner and I, although dare I say I'm a much more talented gamer than he is (lets hope he doesn't read this).

Cutter wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 01:08:
I can't tell who's a Catholic by looking at them but for some strange reason they like to congregate together in a safe place. Same with all manner of other groups. Is that ok? That alright with you?
Well said, might have to use that in the future

As for Minority? More of us than you think.
 
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16. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 05:48 RailWizard
 
Veterator wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 04:52:
Gay people can be shitheads too.

This is a fact. I would even say it's far too generous. I don't say this because it's a simple random thing I've decided to take a stand on, rather the opposite. Of course everyone would rather make assumptions so they can fit everyone into their nice little box of labels. That's ok, people are generally stupid. I like big labels, takes less time and effort than little ones.

You are right tho, this doesn't really affect me, but then neither do my posts affect anyone either. So there really is no issue here. Hooray!

When did the definition for "openly gay" change to "loudest person in the room"?

Oops guess it does affect me, since it's here on this gaming website, again. Later I may watch TV, and there it will be in whatever show I happen to watch. Tomorrow I'll walk down the street and there it will be again, parading down the road while traffic gets to drive 'around'.

Does the gay community have to be 50% of the population before they will shutup? Because until then, they will be a minority, and this is getting rather old. "Minority". Such an awesome word. Instantly evokes an emotion designed to incite compliance. How did feminists win their battle again? Oh... if only they had such an awesome word to use.

hmm mebbe it's crappy analogy time... Imagine you hang out with a bunch of surgeons. They just love to cut into people. Now every time they are around while you are eating, they talk about all the intricate detail of carving people up. Does that sound like fun?

Of course that does not apply to everyone. I have no doubt I've interacted with gay people and not even known it, and I'm fine with that.


Sorry Vet, most of the post is directed elsewhere.


 
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15. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 04:52 Veterator
 
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 01:24:

Not everyone is equipped to smash faces. Sometimes safety in numbers and the protection of others is the best you can hope for. Of all of those groups you mention, how many cases of "hate-crime" violence are there for them in recent years? I bet only one or two stand out. There's a difference between being laughed at and having people believe you're an abomination in the sight of God, deserving of death and eternal damnation. Yeah, those people are insane, but there happens to be a lot of them that fall near that end of the spectrum.

I really don't have much respect for people who use religion as an excuse to do evil shit. Or people in general who think it's funny to bully or intimidate. And I realize this happens in games a lot. Hell Tribes Ascend, in one match the other day I probably had 4 players repeatedly giving me shit anytime they killed me or I killed them. I just let them carry on for 3-4 rounds doing their dumbshit, then I called them out on it...and people laughed at them and they stopped. Not in any particular racial slur way, but it's just the general attitude of a LOT of gamers, you're either part of the community in their head or not. You either play the way they want you to play or they pick on you. Etc etc.

Personally I think the game developers don't discourage it enough, it's why you see publisher/developer forums just filled with people flaming/fanboying it up comments. It's seriously not conducive to a discussion where a big majority of the people are simply not heard or refuse to speak because there's a little cluster of shitheads who spend all of their time driving people off.

I haven't heard any news of these guys physically attacking people at events, but the fact that their attitude is tolerated at many stages in the gaming community pretty much guarantees that these shithead attitudes are going to persist no matter how you try to divide yourselves up.


I understand why they want to do it, and I even sympathize with them on it. But I don't think they are going to end up with the results they expect, in fact I think it will just escalate the anti-gay commentary. Especially if you ever get identified as going to those events, they'll single you out if you ever try to play with the non-event attendees.

Now if they want to organize a place where people can comment on what they like and don't like about games and not get shouted down (like what happens in damn near every game specific forum ever). Have events where the game devs show up and it isn't a raging mass of screaming, drooling idiots..... They'd be creating a place where people would prefer to go. It doesn't need to be targeted at gay people to be civil. I think a whole lot of people would like some civility injected back into games, because it's more fun to joke around instead of having people continually calling everyone noobs, spamming voice chat, and generally being a shithead.

If every group I mentioned previously got offended and made their own gaming group....shitheads will just join whatever group and hate on the people not in their group. Gay people can be shitheads too.
 
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14. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 01:26 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 21:23:
How would I even know? Unless, of course, someone makes a big deal out of it...

Nice to see you are against harassing people based on their group membership! I agree. Which reminds me, I'm a little hungry. I think I'll go grab a Chick-Fil-A sammich...
Yeah, so nice that their CEO didn't make a big deal out of it. Oh wait...
 
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13. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 01:24 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Veterator wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 23:27:
Well if we're basing it on what kind of insults get thrown out.

We'll need safe places for:

30+ or 40+ yo virgins.

People who live with their parents.

People who live in their parents basement.

Anyone who works in fast food.

Each and every racial group, because they kinda throw those out like candy.

Rednecks, people with heavy southern accents...etc. Just so people don't assume they are hooking up with family members or animals.

Furries.

Asians who are bad at math.

Fat people, everyone hates fat people now.

And probably a whole lot of other insults/stereotypes and what not that are throw out to upset people in games.


Some of the above are things you can't keep to yourself (race, accent, fatness), unlike your sexuality, but even the people part of those groups and insulted by the barbs online probably would feel silly setting up a special game event.

Are they going to test your gayness? What if you're a gay that
insults gays?

I mean more power to them, but a whole lot of people get insulted in games in a whole lot of ways. Showing you are intimidated/affected by it just means they win.

Hell I had a relative who was deaf with other handicaps and people used to make fun of the deaf group he hung out with....until they picked up a big bulky deaf member who threatened to and started beating the shit out of those people. That's what those kind of people respond to, having their face smashed.

Not everyone is equipped to smash faces. Sometimes safety in numbers and the protection of others is the best you can hope for. Of all of those groups you mention, how many cases of "hate-crime" violence are there for them in recent years? I bet only one or two stand out. There's a difference between being laughed at and having people believe you're an abomination in the sight of God, deserving of death and eternal damnation. Yeah, those people are insane, but there happens to be a lot of them that fall near that end of the spectrum.
 
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12. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 01:20 Beamer
 
Cutter wrote on Aug 11, 2012, 01:08:
Well if you not a member of a minority group you'll never really know what it means will you? However, as an intelligent, educated human being you can show some basic empathy and compassion, right? Like everything else, this doesn't effect you in the slightest and doesn't cost you a dime so what do you care? And as Prophet points out I have yet to see the multiplayer game that isn't lousy with idiots using bigoted and racial slurs. I can't tell who's a Catholic by looking at them but for some strange reason they like to congregate together in a safe place. Same with all manner of other groups. Is that ok? That alright with you?

This is why I unblocked Cutter.
 
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11. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 01:18 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RailWizard wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 23:57:
I'm getting real tired of the "anyone that harasses gays does so because they are afraid of being one. ergo: Homophobic".

Seriously, whoever came up with that is a fucking moron. It's hate, pure and simple.

Do you think Hitler gassed the Jews because he was secretly worried he was one of them?

People have all sorts of low opinions about outside groups, but when it comes to this one in particular, it gets turned into some Freudian fallacy. I call it trolling, which is what this particular group is really about.

lol and that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how stupid this all is.

Methinks he doth protest too much... Grin
 
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10. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 11, 2012, 01:08 Cutter
 
Well if you not a member of a minority group you'll never really know what it means will you? However, as an intelligent, educated human being you can show some basic empathy and compassion, right? Like everything else, this doesn't effect you in the slightest and doesn't cost you a dime so what do you care? And as Prophet points out I have yet to see the multiplayer game that isn't lousy with idiots using bigoted and racial slurs. I can't tell who's a Catholic by looking at them but for some strange reason they like to congregate together in a safe place. Same with all manner of other groups. Is that ok? That alright with you?
 
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9. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 23:57 RailWizard
 
I'm getting real tired of the "anyone that harasses gays does so because they are afraid of being one. ergo: Homophobic".

Seriously, whoever came up with that is a fucking moron. It's hate, pure and simple.

Do you think Hitler gassed the Jews because he was secretly worried he was one of them?

People have all sorts of low opinions about outside groups, but when it comes to this one in particular, it gets turned into some Freudian fallacy. I call it trolling, which is what this particular group is really about.

lol and that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how stupid this all is.
 
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8. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 23:27 Veterator
 
Well if we're basing it on what kind of insults get thrown out.

We'll need safe places for:

30+ or 40+ yo virgins.

People who live with their parents.

People who live in their parents basement.

Anyone who works in fast food.

Each and every racial group, because they kinda throw those out like candy.

Rednecks, people with heavy southern accents...etc. Just so people don't assume they are hooking up with family members or animals.

Furries.

Asians who are bad at math.

Fat people, everyone hates fat people now.

And probably a whole lot of other insults/stereotypes and what not that are throw out to upset people in games.


Some of the above are things you can't keep to yourself (race, accent, fatness), unlike your sexuality, but even the people part of those groups and insulted by the barbs online probably would feel silly setting up a special game event.

Are they going to test your gayness? What if you're a gay that
insults gays?

I mean more power to them, but a whole lot of people get insulted in games in a whole lot of ways. Showing you are intimidated/affected by it just means they win.

Hell I had a relative who was deaf with other handicaps and people used to make fun of the deaf group he hung out with....until they picked up a big bulky deaf member who threatened to and started beating the shit out of those people. That's what those kind of people respond to, having their face smashed.
 
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7. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 22:52 PropheT
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 21:23:
Funny, I've never seen, heard of, or even been a part of a game or gaming community that even asked the sexuality of the players, much less targeted gamers based on their sexual preference.

So, you've never played an online game before, ever? Because I have no idea how you wouldn't have seen everything from anti-gay to anti-semitism with a whole lot of racism smacked in the middle for a big ole' rednecky hate speech sandwich otherwise.

Online Games: A Free Fire Zone for Hate Speech?
Hate Speech Corrodes Online Games
NSFW: New Research Looks at Hate Speech on Xbox Live

Just in case the whole "it doesn't happen" argument actually still seemed valid to anyone at all, there's a few links that were remarkably easy to find. I have a hard time believing that any gamer looking at this objectively would have trouble understanding where the people behind GaymerCon are coming from with this.
 
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6. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 22:34 Longswd
 
Add me to the list of people who don't understand why sexual orientation is even a consideration one way or the other.

I can see the potential harassment issues if you run about announcing your sexual orientation, but my question is, why? Why go to special effort to draw attention to your minority orientation? What purpose does it serve?

I mean, I can't remember the last time I ever saw anyone enter into a gaming chat and announce that they where heterosexual. Why would it or should it even be a topic of discussion? Really, who gives a shit?

I understand that homophobic harassment is uncool but it just seems counterproductive to invite such attacks by announcing your orientation; again, who cares? Why is it a consideration and why do you want to make it one?

As for the stated purpose of providing a "safe place", I personally cannot see anything more unsafe than gathering a bunch of self-proclaimed LGBTQ players into one place and ensuring a "target rich" environment for the next homophobic nut job.

 
I don't always drink carbonated Mexican rat piss, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
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5. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 21:41 The Half Elf
 
Bring me back some waffle fries and cheese sauce!  
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4. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 21:23 Eirikrautha
 
Cutter wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 21:09:
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 21:01:
And what does playing video games have to do with your sexuality? If the answer is anything other than "nothing," the problem might just lie with you (and not elsewhere)...

The problem isn't with gay people, it's all those other assholes who think that being gay is the problem. When they stop being assholes there won't be a need for organizations like this. Same with any group that gets hassled by assholes.

Funny, I've never seen, heard of, or even been a part of a game or gaming community that even asked the sexuality of the players, much less targeted gamers based on their sexual preference. How would I even know? Unless, of course, someone makes a big deal out of it...

Nice to see you are against harassing people based on their group membership! I agree. Which reminds me, I'm a little hungry. I think I'll go grab a Chick-Fil-A sammich...
 
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3. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 21:09 Cutter
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 10, 2012, 21:01:
And what does playing video games have to do with your sexuality? If the answer is anything other than "nothing," the problem might just lie with you (and not elsewhere)...

The problem isn't with gay people, it's all those other assholes who think that being gay is the problem. When they stop being assholes there won't be a need for organizations like this. Same with any group that gets hassled by assholes.
 
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2. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 21:01 Eirikrautha
 
And what does playing video games have to do with your sexuality? If the answer is anything other than "nothing," the problem might just lie with you (and not elsewhere)...  
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1. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Aug 10, 2012, 20:30 The Half Elf
 
All I want is a masculine guy, decent shape that games!  
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