88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 3.
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| 48. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 20:42 |
Mr. Tact |
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RailWizard wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 17:49:
None of the above! If only that were a choice. Or there was a better choice.
Bhruic wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 20:13:
And media is successful. Right now it's not even remotely close - Obama has it locked up. Could that change? Certainly. Most polls on both sides say it's close. The fact that 45% of the voters on both sides made their choice prior to the primaries, makes it close. The fact that 5-10 states, and only those states will be the deciding factor, make it close. I'd like to believe you are correct. I don't think you are. And even if I did, I'm not sure I would care to say it loud for fear Mr. Murphy would come a callin'. |
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| Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain. |
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| 47. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 20:13 |
Bhruic |
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Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 16:39:
I have no idea who will win the Presidential election. I think it's still too close to call.
And media is successful.
At some point it may get to the "too close to call" stage, but it certainly isn't there now. The problem is that the people who are reporting on it have a vested interest in trying to make it sound close so they can get more readers/viewers. It's like watching an episode of Survivor where it's obvious who's going to get voted out, but they use all sorts of edits to make it look like it's in doubt.
Right now it's not even remotely close - Obama has it locked up. Could that change? Certainly. But the media is trying to distract with general polls, and are ignoring the electoral math. Electorally, if the election were held today, Obama would win easily.
Again, that's not to say that "stuff" won't happen. The election is still fairly far off. But trying to describe the election as it currently stands as "too close to call" is just wrong. |
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| 46. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 17:49 |
RailWizard |
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None of the above! 
Also, like them or not, cut off support for Israel and you will have their blood on your hands as the Muslim zombie hordes engulf their tiny scrap of nothing. Seems like a shitty thing to do to an ally, then again, no one accuses the US of not being filled with self-serving assholes these days.
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| 45. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 17:48 |
AngelicPenguin |
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Matshock wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:01:
DrEvil wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 13:39:
Matshock wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 12:57:
I don't want national health care. I don't even care if you understand why- the evidence against such a thing being beneficial is so overwhelming that only a blind ideologue could ignore it.
Really? Care to point at some of that evidence from a neutral third-party? Why is the USA the only major, developed economy country that doesn't have it? Some of the greatest minds in history (such as Stephen Hawking) are only alive today because of national healthcare programs in their respective countries.
Healthcare should be provided for every member of a society; a "rising tide lifts all boats" as they say. Any economist will tell you that until you take care of the basic needs of a people in a society, they won't have disposable income to inject into the economy.
I'm not wasting time- you're a true believer so let me just tell you how I feel personally because I think that will have more impact.
If the .gov provides my health care then I know they must also control me to moderate their costs: what I eat, what I drive, if I can have children and how many, if I drink, if I smoke (that includes your beloved weeds kids), if I'm armed, if I exercise, how old I'm allowed to be, if I 'm allowed to survive cancer, etc., etc. etc. And all the same applies to all my family that I am responsible for.
No thank you. And don't bother telling me it won't happen, it already is happening.
Grandpa? I didn't know you visited blues. 
In all seriousness though, at least you only get one vote. |
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| 44. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:39 |
Mr. Tact |
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I have no idea who will win the Presidential election. I think it's still too close to call. Like I said in another topic, it hasn't been a good run for President Obama. The collapse of the housing market and the resulting credit crunch pretty much threw a wet rag on everything. I find it difficult to believe McCain or Romney, or anyone else, could have done much better.
Frankly, to me it comes down to who do you trust more to do what's right for "everyone". And I find it hard to trust someone with $20-100 million in an IRA, Cayman bank accounts, and attempts to take $77k write-off on a horse -- to make appropriate decisions which would be best for "everyone".
This comment was edited on Aug 7, 2012, 16:55. |
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| Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain. |
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| 43. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:25 |
Matshock |
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DrEvil wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:22:
immigration...
This is the last thing I'm going to address because this is important to me.
Obama and the congressional super-majority of Democrats pushed through a health care plan almost nobody wanted. Do you really think that if he had called for the immigration plan that nearly all Democrats wanted that it would not have been passed? Really?
They buried it. Fact.
Now that they can't do it it's an issue again. Fact.
I'm painfully aware of what being in legal limbo does to people. I watch the news and see how illegal immigrants get treated here in Las Vegas. Your narrative of race baiting shows you care more about demonizing people like me than helping people like them.
As for the rest- let me just dumb this down a few grade levels, now that Israel is on the board all detailed arguments are invalid anyway:
The people who work are not happy anymore paying for free shit for people who won't. Come and see. |
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| 42. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:24 |
Tumbler |
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So did this come up yet?
Romney to pick Rob Portman for VP? (Rumor)
Is that a fire burning over there? Lemme just put that out with GASOLINE!!!! |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 41. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:20 |
Dirwulf |
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nin wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:11:
If the .gov provides my health care then I know they must also control me to moderate their costs: what I eat, what I drive, if I can have children and how many, if I drink, if I smoke (that includes your beloved weeds kids), if I'm armed, if I exercise, how old I'm allowed to be, if I 'm allowed to survive cancer, etc., etc. etc. And all the same applies to my all my family that I am responsible for.
No thank you. And don't bother telling me it won't happen, it already is happening.
Could you list some examples regarding healthcare relating to arms, the number of children you can have, what you eat, and where you can drive, and how old you're allowed to be?
He already said he's not wasting time, which means he's full of shit and has no proof of his claims, and cares not to back them up. He should become a politician.
This comment was edited on Aug 7, 2012, 16:26. |
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| 40. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:18 |
DukeFNukem |
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| I am all for your way of thinking. I would vote to throw everyone one of the 535 chimpanzees in the white house out and start fresh. The congress is infected with cancer and the only way to truly change anything may be to start fresh. Term limits for Senators and whatever laws they pass they actually have to abide by as well. |
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| 39. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:13 |
jdreyer |
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Bodolza wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 15:34:
As for Israel, I'm not sure what you're referencing, but can someone explain to me the hard-on conservatives have for Isreal? I honestly don't get it. We, the American taxpayers, give them billions of dollars of aid every year, and I don't know why.
Because, shut up! That's why!
Joking aside, Israeli issues have a stranglehold on US foreign policy for a couple of reasons. First, AIPAC (Israel lobby) is a huge donor to both parties and almost every campaign. Second is that a lot of congress folks, being older, still wax nostalgic about the Great War and what happened to the Jews during that conflict, and feel a special obligation to protect them.
Israel has a pop of 8 mil. We give them 8 bil in aid, or $1000 per man, woman, and child. It's ridiculous. What's best for Israel isn't what's best for America, but many politicians conflate the two, as do many countries. It's very dangerous, and doesn't serve our interests.
EDIT: What Cutter said. |
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| Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. |
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| 38. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:09 |
Cutter |
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DukeFNukem wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:54:
"It's Bushs' fault...It's Bushs' fault!". Yeah, the unemployment rate is going down already. No really, I can feel it!!!
Wecome to the Divided Socialist States of America!!!
Well, it is Bush's fault, plain and simple. And once again we can see that you Dittoheads don't understand politics. If America was socialist the average citizen would be much better off than they are right now. Unfettered capitalism is a race to the bottom which turns most people into little more than indentured servants. But hey, you just keep on believing what those rich, extremist talk show hosts tell you how it's really the socialists that are keeping you from getting a fair shake.
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| "Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton |
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| 37. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:04 |
Cutter |
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Bodolza wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 15:34:
As for Israel, I'm not sure what you're referencing, but can someone explain to me the hard-on conservatives have for Isreal? I honestly don't get it. We, the American taxpayers, give them billions of dollars of aid every year, and I don't know why.
It's both sides of the aisle. AIPAC is one of the most powerful lobbies there is. they basically pay for politicians outright hence the insane and dangerous support for Israel. Read the following for the best insight on it.
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy
The Israel Lobby," by John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen M. Walt of Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government, was one of the most controversial articles in recent memory. Originally published in the London Review of Books in March 2006, it provoked both howls of outrage and cheers of gratitude for challenging what had been a taboo issue in America: the impact of the Israel lobby on U.S. foreign policy.
Now in a work of major importance, Mearsheimer and Walt deepen and expand their argument and confront recent developments in Lebanon and Iran. They describe the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the United States provides to Israel and argues that this support cannot be fully explained on either strategic or moral grounds. This exceptional relationship is due largely to the political influence of a loose coalition of individuals and organizations that actively work to shape U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction. Mearsheimer and Walt provocatively contend that the lobby has a far-reaching impact on America's posture throughout the Middle East--in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, and toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict--and the policies it has encouraged are in neither America's national interest nor Israel's long-term interest. The lobby's influence also affects America's relationship with important allies and increases dangers that all states face from global jihadist terror. |
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| "Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton |
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| 36. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 16:00 |
nutshell42 |
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Verno wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 15:33:
At a personal level I think quality of care, availability and cost are the foremost in my mind
Just about all developed nations with national healthcare have better life expectancy and better results on the usual health metrics at significantly lower cost of the US.
Waiting lists can be an issue. The NHS in the UK is legendary for its delays, it's better in most other countries. Waiting times would be one non-essential area where you could have additional private insurance.
Comparisons are hard because there really is no other developed country without national healthcare of some sort.
I understand what you're saying about government regulation being required for the health care system in general but that's a separate discussion from what I'm talking about so I'm not going to address it.
The PAPs in healthcare are often so large they border on market failure. The stakes are so high (your life), the information asymmetry so great (you're not a brain surgeon) and the uncertainty so large (who can really tell how much was your doctor, how much your own body and how much that one of 40 medications) that it's hard for patients to make a rational decision.
Americans take too many pills and get too many CRTs to the detriment of their health; they do that because in the end you have to trust your doctor but it's in your doctor's best interest to sell you more shit.
I think there are many merits to a national health care but I also recognize it has its downsides as well. As an aside, I'm not sure many of the proponents for a national health care system are truly prepared to deal with the tax implications either.
That is absolutely correct.
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| 35. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:34 |
Bodolza |
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DukeFNukem wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:54:
I would take Herman Monster as President versus Barrack Obama for another 4 painful years. Or Elmer Fudd, or Bugs Bunny even. They couldn't do worse than the current President. Obamacare, Solyndra, Fast and Furious, backstabbing Israel
Honestly curious how you think a Romney presidency would be better, and not worse.
Obamacare: based on Romney's plan. Now Romney has backed away from supporting it, but has offered no alternative. How will that be an improvement to the current healthcare problems?
Solyndra: Government backed subsidies for energy companies have a long history of support on both sides. I have not heard Romney promote stopping them. How will he be any different or an improvement?
Fast and Furious: Not even an Obama program. Why are you bringing this up? You honestly think the DOJ is going to suddenly stop doing stupid stuff under a new president?
As for Israel, I'm not sure what you're referencing, but can someone explain to me the hard-on conservatives have for Isreal? I honestly don't get it. We, the American taxpayers, give them billions of dollars of aid every year, and I don't know why. |
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| 34. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:33 |
Verno |
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They can't because it doesn't.
Seems really conclusive without any reasoning to support it. I think depends on what metric is being used. At a personal level I think quality of care, availability and cost are the foremost in my mind but there are many other factors. Unlike many republicans, I think there are many merits to a national health care but I also recognize it has its downsides as well. As an aside, I'm not sure many of the proponents for a national health care system are truly prepared to deal with the tax implications either.
I understand what you're saying about government regulation being required for the health care system in general but that's a separate discussion from what I'm talking about so I'm not going to address it. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 33. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:29 |
Axis |
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| Term limits are needed. Also a president who doesn't spend the majority of his time in blame mode. |
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| 32. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:29 |
Axis |
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Anyone who wants govt healthcare should have some dental work in the military. Awesome stuff - try it!
So ya, if you never you never did squat for your country, you'd never know how bad govt run healthcare can be.
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| 31. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:27 |
nutshell42 |
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DukeFNukem wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:54:
Fast and Furious, backstabbing Israel
I'm not in the know when it comes to right wing lingo so could you enlighten me here? WTF are you talking about?
And what America needs much more than a new president is a new Congress. Take 535 chimpanzees and let them vote with left banana/right banana. At least they'd get it right 50% of the time.
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| 30. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:24 |
nin |
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Hopefully, in about 90 days. You must not work for a living huh?
So all the things he outlined will come to pass in 90 days? Can you specify a certain date?
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RollinThundr Apr 17, 2013, 12:25: Eh really tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. If you really want to call that trolling sure.
Mr. Tact Apr 17, 2013, 12:33: Pretty sure that's the definition of trolling... |
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| 29. |
Re: Morning Metaverse |
Aug 7, 2012, 15:17 |
nutshell42 |
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Verno wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 14:30:
Talk about how private does it better,
They can't because it doesn't.
talk about the greater number of specialists in a private health care system
Turns out they hurt more than they help because there's such a thing as too much healthcare. All those good capitalist specialists try to maximize their profit by doing shit to patients they don't need and getting kickbacks from big pharma for selling too much or the wrong pills.
Healthcare is prone to principal agent problems (look it up) to work without government intervention. There's hardly a market where the three main factors in PAPs - information asymmetry, uncertainty and risk - are more prevalent than in the patient-doctor relationship.
There's a lot to be said for a private element in health care but in areas where those three factors are limited, e.g. goodies like single rooms in hospitals, dentists and other nice to have stuff. |
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88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 3.
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