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Evening Consolidation

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48. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 13:48 Dev
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 22:37:
Anyone that thinks Microsoft would do this is about as idiotic as they think Microsoft needs to be to do this. Do you think Adobe would stand for this? How about antivirus companies like Norton? Or maybe companies like SAP. Do you think they'd appreciate being told that their wares are only able to be sold via a Microsoft App Store with Microsoft taking a cut?

This is what Apple, Linux and ChromeOS fans dream of happening, and no one at Microsoft is dumb enough to make it a reality, despite the conspiracy theories people see.
Its already beginning to happen.
ALL metro apps must come from windows store.
In the just finished RTM release, MS has disabled the option to boot to desktop, instead it forces everyone to boot to metro (which I'm sure businesses will appreciate).
MS is getting OEM's to setup restrictive BIOS to prevent other OSes from launching (supposedly to make it more secure.

Essentially MS wants to try to make everyone use metro and only use apps that go through them.
 
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47. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:46 Verno
 
I think the difference between Microsoft and Apple is that Microsoft is an enterprise company who dabbles in consumer things while Apple is a consumer company who has zero interest in workspace/enterprise stuff. The real threat to Microsoft is Google as they are the ones actively trying to undermine Windows/Office and to a lesser extent Active Directory. Apple does not give a shit about the enterprise and only focuses on consumer products for the most part. This allows them to be pretty nimble as they are structured around essentially one to two major products at a time. Microsoft on the other hand has a serious problem as their internal culture crushes innovation, promotes career posturing antics and is ridiculously middle management heavy. They know that they can shit out crappy versions of Windows until the end of time though, there is nothing else in the enterprise space to dislodge them. Consumer Windows is far less important and Apple still hasn't made a serious dent in that.

The Xbox is their only real success in the consumer market these days and even that is more of a result of throwing money at the market until it stuck. They still face two large competitors and now a public with heavily divided attention spans due to the ever increasing number of ways we get our entertainment.
 
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46. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:34 InBlack
 
Creston wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 10:19:
Beamer wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 06:54:
All they did was attempt to do what they feel their OEMs have failed to do (and I think anyone that's played much with 99% of the Android tablets would agree that HTC and Samsung have mostly failed to compete with the iPad.)

Because if experienced OEMs like Samsung and HTC can't do it, then by golly, Microsoft surely can? Because MS's track record with hardware is phenomenal.

Oh, wait...

It's actually kind of funny to see Microsoft try to become Apple, when that has never been their forte, and unless they dramatically restructure the company (and hire people with the know-how to get it done), it will never happen. They will just keep floundering with one failed product after another, while at the same time absolutely ignoring what their actual CUSTOMERS are telling them. It's a small sample size, and probably confirmation-biased, but I know around 30 or 40 guys in different IT departments in Tulsa, OKC, Houston, Denver and a few other places, and so far not a single one has said that their IT department has ANY plans to upgrade to Windows 8 within ANY kind of timeframe.

Yet MS bullishly continues with Win8 the way it is, because after all, WE MUST COMPETE WITH TEH IPAD!!1!1!

Balmer couldn't run a fucking lemonade stand. Within two years he'd have the kids growing oranges, because dammit, WE MUST COMPETE WITH MINUTE MAID!

Why they ever handed him the keys to one of the world's largest companies (at the time) is beyond understanding.

Creston

Agreed. Except for one part, its already happening. Microsoft isnt trying to compete with Apple, its full steam all-in cards on the table competing with Apple and once the losses pile up this is going to be a huge blow for the company and once Win8 hits its stock is goiong to take a fucking nosedive the likes of which will make Zuckerberg's facebook fiasco look like child-play.

But this isnt exactly new territory for Microsoft. Its one of the worst managed and run companies in the world, as it has been since becoming top dog in the 90's. Its sheer size and market dominance (read monopoly) will keep it going...

 
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45. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:30 wtf_man
 
Creston wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 10:19:
Beamer wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 06:54:
All they did was attempt to do what they feel their OEMs have failed to do (and I think anyone that's played much with 99% of the Android tablets would agree that HTC and Samsung have mostly failed to compete with the iPad.)

Because if experienced OEMs like Samsung and HTC can't do it, then by golly, Microsoft surely can? Because MS's track record with hardware is phenomenal.

Oh, wait...

It's actually kind of funny to see Microsoft try to become Apple, when that has never been their forte, and unless they dramatically restructure the company (and hire people with the know-how to get it done), it will never happen. They will just keep floundering with one failed product after another, while at the same time absolutely ignoring what their actual CUSTOMERS are telling them. It's a small sample size, and probably confirmation-biased, but I know around 30 or 40 guys in different IT departments in Tulsa, OKC, Houston, Denver and a few other places, and so far not a single one has said that their IT department has ANY plans to upgrade to Windows 8 within ANY kind of timeframe.

Yet MS bullishly continues with Win8 the way it is, because after all, WE MUST COMPETE WITH TEH IPAD!!1!1!

Balmer couldn't run a fucking lemonade stand. Within two years he'd have the kids growing oranges, because dammit, WE MUST COMPETE WITH MINUTE MAID!

Why they ever handed him the keys to one of the world's largest companies (at the time) is beyond understanding.

Creston

Agreed. Windows Tablets / Windows 8 will probably be as successful as Zune.

Nokia is still bleeding money after doing Windows phones, an it's not looking like it will improve much.
Q2 2012 Nokia Losses Announced

Once again... Microsoft is too late to the game.
 
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44. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:19 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 06:54:
All they did was attempt to do what they feel their OEMs have failed to do (and I think anyone that's played much with 99% of the Android tablets would agree that HTC and Samsung have mostly failed to compete with the iPad.)

Because if experienced OEMs like Samsung and HTC can't do it, then by golly, Microsoft surely can? Because MS's track record with hardware is phenomenal.

Oh, wait...

It's actually kind of funny to see Microsoft try to become Apple, when that has never been their forte, and unless they dramatically restructure the company (and hire people with the know-how to get it done), it will never happen. They will just keep floundering with one failed product after another, while at the same time absolutely ignoring what their actual CUSTOMERS are telling them. It's a small sample size, and probably confirmation-biased, but I know around 30 or 40 guys in different IT departments in Tulsa, OKC, Houston, Denver and a few other places, and so far not a single one has said that their IT department has ANY plans to upgrade to Windows 8 within ANY kind of timeframe.

Yet MS bullishly continues with Win8 the way it is, because after all, WE MUST COMPETE WITH TEH IPAD!!1!1!

Balmer couldn't run a fucking lemonade stand. Within two years he'd have the kids growing oranges, because dammit, WE MUST COMPETE WITH MINUTE MAID!

Why they ever handed him the keys to one of the world's largest companies (at the time) is beyond understanding.

Creston
 
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43. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:14 HorrorScope
 
As for it being a surprise release, ah comprehension...

"the new wave of products that we could have coming out with Windows 8, with the new version of Office with the new Windows phone and the new Xbox."

"could"

And no timeline over how long the wave is. New versions will support it, when the new versions are released.
 
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42. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:13 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 06:48:
Creston wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 01:32:
I can't think of a single thing that would make the new Xbox less appealing... Well, maybe if they said that for each new Xbox, they have to instill the essence of a dozen murdered puppies.

Windows 8? Really? Yeah, those HDTV touch-screens are just SET to take off soon, man!

There is literally nobody left at Microsoft with half a shred of sanity.

Creston

They'd take all the Touch out of it. It would look and function EXACTLY like Dashboard looks now, only with brighter colors.

So I don't get your complaint. It couldn't really be any worse, could it?

They just take the Start screen functionality of Metro, add controller functionality and get rid of the desktop. Bam! Windows 8 720.

Seeing as how the Touch aspect of Windows 8 is about the ONLY thing that's even remotely worth looking it (for touch devices), according to the large majority of previews I've read, if you take it out, you're left with... profit? Metro without touch! Woot.

So it'll just be like dashboard? Why bother redoing something if you're only making it exactly the same?

Creston

 
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41. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 10:12 HorrorScope
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 23:21:
2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and more likely than not a PSU built to power exactly the components it includes and would not be able to run that GPU.

IMO way more likely then now the PSU would be able to easily handle that GPU.
 
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40. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 09:08 wtf_man
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 23:50:
A quick Google shows that the Optiplex you linked has a 305W PSU and no room for a dual-slot card or anything passively cooled. And 2GB of RAM doesn't leave much room for anything other than Windows 7.

Sometimes I think you like to argue for the sake of arguing.

305 Watts is plenty for a 75 Watt GPU.

Windows 7 can run on 512MB... granted, swapping to disk with basically opening 1 decent sized app. Vista couldn't. 2GB, while not ideal, will run most games just fine. Most of the OS will swap to disk. It is the games with the memory leaks that will be an issue.

Again... the point was a system, without integrated graphics, that could play games decently, AT A CONSOLE'S PRICE.

It definitely wasn't a recommendation. It was a proof of concept.

One can find a $200 machine (it doesn't have to be the one that I quickly found), and slap a modern graphics card in it that doesn't require external power connections, and play games decently. One would be better off spending around $500, but that's not console price.

This comment was edited on Aug 7, 2012, 09:14.
 
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39. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 07:14 Dades
 
Microsoft Windows Console 8: Advertisement Edition. Every app tile has its own ad window!  
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38. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 06:54 Beamer
 
bhcompy wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 01:51:
Beamer wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 22:37:
Just like Apple did with MacOS... wait a minute, that's not what happened at all!

Anyone that thinks Microsoft would do this is about as idiotic as they think Microsoft needs to be to do this. Do you think Adobe would stand for this? How about antivirus companies like Norton? Or maybe companies like SAP. Do you think they'd appreciate being told that their wares are only able to be sold via a Microsoft App Store with Microsoft taking a cut?

This is what Apple, Linux and ChromeOS fans dream of happening, and no one at Microsoft is dumb enough to make it a reality, despite the conspiracy theories people see.

This is the same Microsoft that publicly acknowledged that getting in to the tablet business would knowingly alienate them from OEMs, and that was after they announced the Surface tablet. MS is doing what they want. They're acting like Walmart. They feel they have enough pull to do whatever they want, and they're probably right in the consumer space.

Keep in mind that Apple didn't do with OSX what MS is doing with W8. iOS and OSX are completely separate platforms. MS is doing what Canonical is failing miserably at(and MS probably won't succeed either, but I digress).


Wait, you think them building the Surface is them thinking they have enough pull? More like the opposite. They see their OEMs failing to build anything decent, and they see the quality control Apple has with their devices. Has any Microsoft-powered product made a dent there? No. So Microsoft actually took that into their own hands. Out of desperation, because it's a war they're losing. Remember, too, they didn't force their OEMs to build their own device, or sell only through the Microsoft B&M stores, or tell their OEMs to fuck off and die, they were no longer licensing their software. They did not take away consumer options. All they did was attempt to do what they feel their OEMs have failed to do (and I think anyone that's played much with 99% of the Android tablets would agree that HTC and Samsung have mostly failed to compete with the iPad.)

But, again, Apple has yet to wall off MacOS and never would. If they did they'd die, as suddenly all those creative suites that help sustain them would just move to PC.

Microsoft does NOT want to do this. Because if they did all those creative suites that they fight with Apple for would leave.

What about Enterprise? Every single company in America has custom and legacy software. Do you think they're going to be forced to add it to the Microsoft Store to run it?

What about all those stupid freeware apps that everyone has. Do you think Microsoft thinks that forcing those onto the store as the single point of distribution is a good idea?

I guarantee to you not a single person in Microsoft thinks this is a good idea. Not one. They think having a store is a fantastic idea, but know that forcing a store would be their own death.
 
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37. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 06:48 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Aug 7, 2012, 01:32:
I can't think of a single thing that would make the new Xbox less appealing... Well, maybe if they said that for each new Xbox, they have to instill the essence of a dozen murdered puppies.

Windows 8? Really? Yeah, those HDTV touch-screens are just SET to take off soon, man!

There is literally nobody left at Microsoft with half a shred of sanity.

Creston

They'd take all the Touch out of it. It would look and function EXACTLY like Dashboard looks now, only with brighter colors.

So I don't get your complaint. It couldn't really be any worse, could it?

They just take the Start screen functionality of Metro, add controller functionality and get rid of the desktop. Bam! Windows 8 720.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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36. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 06:43 Ray Marden
 
I remember realizing that the Saturn was out as I was driving by Toys R' Us and it had a big poster on the outside of the store announcing it was for sale.

Of course...I was not expecting the system for a few more months and did not have the money available to buy one.

Then Sony announced a cheaper price and the initial Saturn reviews were lukewarm - I ended up buying the respective Sony and Nintendo systems and never touched the Saturn.

Meanwhile, I have no idea what to make of the Wii U. A current day system with a tablet? No real focus on improving the tracking of the Wii-mote? With the next Playstation and Xbox systems around the corner? Still without official confirmation of launch price and games? It's the first (US) Nintendo home system that I am considering skipping. It sure looks like it, but I hope this is not Nintendo's Dreamcast moment.

Meanwhile, is anybody happy about Windows 8? I will purdchase the upgrade at the launch price, but I don't intend to install it anytime soon. The PC monitor market has stagnated so I am skeptical about touch screens becoming the future in the market. More than that, that is not remotely what I would have asked for in a new OS. Otherwise, it should not be a surprise that this will be pushed with the next Xbox, but it just means the dashboard will be even uglier and even more of a marketplace whore than it currently is.
Nothing like struggling to find and play a game on the system.
Wanting native 1080p at 60+ Hz with 1:1 motion control and a gamepad,
Ray
 
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35. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 04:28 Julio
 
I have 2 PS3s and 1 Xbox 360 - guess it will be 2 PS4s and 0 Xboxes next time round...  
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34. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 04:00 Rea1One
 
stupid heading & Bad journalism..

no xbox 720 this October...
 
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33. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 03:30 FalconerHG
 
If you've just read the headline, you'll have lots to discuss.

If, on the other hand, you've read the actual quote, you will see Brian Hall is only listing a number of new Microsoft products and happened to start with Windows 8. That doesn't mean that every product following is based on Windows 8.

Bad journalism
 
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32. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 01:51 bhcompy
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 22:37:
Just like Apple did with MacOS... wait a minute, that's not what happened at all!

Anyone that thinks Microsoft would do this is about as idiotic as they think Microsoft needs to be to do this. Do you think Adobe would stand for this? How about antivirus companies like Norton? Or maybe companies like SAP. Do you think they'd appreciate being told that their wares are only able to be sold via a Microsoft App Store with Microsoft taking a cut?

This is what Apple, Linux and ChromeOS fans dream of happening, and no one at Microsoft is dumb enough to make it a reality, despite the conspiracy theories people see.

This is the same Microsoft that publicly acknowledged that getting in to the tablet business would knowingly alienate them from OEMs, and that was after they announced the Surface tablet. MS is doing what they want. They're acting like Walmart. They feel they have enough pull to do whatever they want, and they're probably right in the consumer space.

Keep in mind that Apple didn't do with OSX what MS is doing with W8. iOS and OSX are completely separate platforms. MS is doing what Canonical is failing miserably at(and MS probably won't succeed either, but I digress).

 
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31. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 01:32 Creston
 
I can't think of a single thing that would make the new Xbox less appealing... Well, maybe if they said that for each new Xbox, they have to instill the essence of a dozen murdered puppies.

Windows 8? Really? Yeah, those HDTV touch-screens are just SET to take off soon, man!

There is literally nobody left at Microsoft with half a shred of sanity.

Creston
 
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30. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 7, 2012, 01:20 Jerykk
 
No, but recommending a $200 refurb Dell workstation with some off-the-shelf pieces that would likely blow the PSU up comes across less like a real recommendation and more like that guy that sits around at GameStop and goes "real gamers play PC. Why would you want to buy a console and play with all your friends when you can get this for the same price. Sure, it has no warranty, is likely to explode, and all your friends are on XBL, but this makes you a man!"

I don't think GameStop employees would ever recommend anything PC-related. In fact, they likely wouldn't even know that you can play games on PC.
 
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29. Re: Evening Consolidation Aug 6, 2012, 23:50 Beamer
 
wtf_man wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 23:37:
Beamer wrote on Aug 6, 2012, 23:21:
2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and more likely than not a PSU built to power exactly the components it includes and would not be able to run that GPU.

The point was that it was an entry gaming system. Just like a console, where you buy extra controllers and such, eventually you would need to beef up the weaknesses of the PC listed. 4GB of ram is pretty cheap, and so is a bigger hard drive.

As for the PSU, there's probably plenty of room for that GPU. We have budget GPUs in similar Optiplex models at work, driving 2 to 3 monitors. The cards were added in later... not bought with the systems.

Heck... even a beefier base $400 - $500 system would be better than a console, IMO... but I was trying to keep it near average console cost. One really doesn't need a $2000 system anymore to decently play games on a PC.

No, but recommending a $200 refurb Dell workstation with some off-the-shelf pieces that would likely blow the PSU up comes across less like a real recommendation and more like that guy that sits around at GameStop and goes "real gamers play PC. Why would you want to buy a console and play with all your friends when you can get this for the same price. Sure, it has no warranty, is likely to explode, and all your friends are on XBL, but this makes you a man!"

A quick Google shows that the Optiplex you linked has a 305W PSU and no room for a dual-slot card or anything passively cooled. And 2GB of RAM doesn't leave much room for anything other than Windows 7. Yes, you can upgrade the RAM, the HDD, the GPU and probably the PSU, but then you've built a Frankenstein refurb system when part of the appeal of a console to most people is that they take it home, plug in 2 cords and are playing. No drivers, no screwdrivers, no sharp corners, no praying that Dell left any of the connectors long enough to reach anywhere, etc.
Those of us that enjoy taking some time to build something are rare. Most people want something that just works, and they're willing to pay a premium for it.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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