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Evening Tech Bits

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30. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 22:06 eRe4s3r
 
If history taught us anything it's that large now does not mean better hopes at surviving a technological revolution (which at this rate, might happen as soon as 2016).
 
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29. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 20:56 dj LiTh
 
This is the beginning of the end for valve  
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28. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 17:22 Matshock
 
I know the whole "I'll agree with you then co-opt your argument and spin it" hash Sir, save it.

MS sees the Apple model like you just said- get people on a proprietary platform, convince them there is no good alternative then juice them. It's the new business model- act like a government. If it works long term then welcome to a new dark age.

I never said I'd go with Android. I am simply pointing out that there will always be alternatives in a market that has any freedom at all. That businesses that use artificial restrictions and anti-competitive practices as market tactics don't deserve my business and I don't have to give it to them.

Don't believe me? I'm a year-old cable cutter and loving it. I'm getting more value for less money with DSL, a Roku and a Mohu antenna than I ever could with the one cable company that is allowed to operate here. Ditching MS would be just another step for me.

Take care Sir.


 
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27. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 17:03 Beamer
 
Matshock wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 16:59:
I disagree, and we'll see what happens.

I can tell you this for certain- if I have to choose between XBOX 720, XBOXPC, Apple or Linux I'm choosing Linux. I'll just find something else to spend time on.

Maybe Android will make their move too- Google is coming after no-value cable companies that are ripe for the taking and perhaps so is MS.


Would you actually go with Android? What would the difference be between AndroidPC and XboxPC? Absolutely none. None at all.

Not sure what you disagree with,either. That Microsoft will start nickel-and-diming every single possible aspect in order to ruin your fun? No, Microsoft is not that stupid. Microsoft did not get this far by doing that*, and they won't do it now. They know that it's better to make a little bit of money off of each user of an enormous user base than a lot of money off of each user of a shrinking user base. They would much rather cultivate a large base than dominate a small base.

* Of course, at the same time Apple has dominated a small base and it's quickly risen to the largest base of its type and made the them the largest tech company in the world.
 
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26. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 16:59 Matshock
 
I disagree, and we'll see what happens.

I can tell you this for certain- if I have to choose between XBOX 720, XBOXPC, Apple or Linux I'm choosing Linux. I'll just find something else to spend time on.

Maybe Android will make their move too- Google is coming after no-value cable companies that are ripe for the taking and perhaps so is MS.

 
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25. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 15:09 Beamer
 
Matshock wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 15:02:
Personally, I'd rather let devs/publishers do their own thing than need MS's permission to publish for Windows.

Plus, you can forget $60- if MS has a monopoly on PC gaming you're looking at a much higher number.

So much so that if that means taking a step back or simply pausing graphics quality for a while that would be a more acceptable than XBOXing PCs.

This is the argument Valve/etc. should be making- not talking about DX9 Vs. OGL.

I agree, and side-loading will ALWAYS be possible, but Microsoft will offer an app store that competes directly with Steam. People will publish on one, on the other, or on neither. There will be restrictions to get onto either, as there is today on Steam, but people will be able to bypass the stores altogether if they'd like, as they can on PCs today. So your fear really isn't warranted.

Why would you forget $60? If anything I'd expect the prices to fall considerably. The industry is pretty well aware that it cannot break $59.99 and that profits are likely better lower. B&M is part of what is holding it back (but only part.) Have we seen a change on the Xbox?

And why would it mean taking a step back or pausing quality? There are certainly ways to stop that.




Valve is exclusively looking out for its growth here. They are not looking out for consumers. This isn't necessarily bad, but trying to get us to go to a new OS seems very, very stupid.
 
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24. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 15:02 Matshock
 
Personally, I'd rather let devs/publishers do their own thing than need MS's permission to publish for Windows.

Plus, you can forget $60- if MS has a monopoly on PC gaming you're looking at a much higher number.

So much so that if that means taking a step back or simply pausing graphics quality for a while that would be a more acceptable than XBOXing PCs.

This is the argument Valve/etc. should be making- not talking about DX9 Vs. OGL.
 
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23. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 14:25 Beamer
 
Matshock wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 13:25:
Once again- what if the Linux OS is transparently part of the game and you can still launch from Windows?

Does blurring the line between the XBOX and the PC include paying M$ the royalties to publish games on a Windows PC that folks have to pay to publish on a XBOX? Do you think that maybe publishers will pass the costs of those royalties on to you?



Of course they would. PC games would be priced where console games are - $60. Where Diablo 3, Doom 3, and Skyrim were. Where they're going, anyway.

But Microsoft almost definitely wouldn't do that. Rather than take a fixed cut of unit sold they'd take 30% as a distribution fee, like Steam does, because they'd push for an end of B&M and for everything to be digitally distributed through the Microsoft App Store. The real question is what they'd do about patches. At this point I'm sure they know the expensive patching procedure on the Xbox is a problem, but they also believe it helps the consumer by assuring far fewer faulty patches go out (I'd love to know how true that is and whether this achieves its goals. I suppose they know, and it depends on what portion of patches they reject.) I can't see them extending this to the PC. That would more or less doom them.
 
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22. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 13:25 Matshock
 
Once again- what if the Linux OS is transparently part of the game and you can still launch from Windows?

Does blurring the line between the XBOX and the PC include paying M$ the royalties to publish games on a Windows PC that folks have to pay to publish on a XBOX? Do you think that maybe publishers will pass the costs of those royalties on to you?


 
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21. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 11:53 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 11:42:
Matshock wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 11:27:
Now we're getting somewhere- here's the rub:

1. MS might be declaring an effective end to PC AAA gaming with Windows 8. This might be intentional to force migration to XBOX 720.

2. What if Valve/Activision/etc. say FU to MS and now all PCs can have a Linux sector on their HDDs? They could just come up with an app that manages the sector size for you and can boot you to Linux with a simple double-click? Heck, with plenty of memory and a small OS footprint why no open it in a window? Heck why not have it be a transparent part of opening a game?

Just speculating there but I'm sticking to my opinion that this particular article makes no sense.


Microsoft definitely isn't saying that. If anything it seems like they're trying to blur the distinction between PC and 360. What is essentially a new, ugly start screen doesn't change that.

More likely, Microsoft is planning an app store that would be a direct competitor to Steam and undoubtedly steal some of Steam's growth potential (actually do some very serious damage to the growth potential.) So rather than sit there and take it Valve is desperately branching out to support other platforms, focusing mostly on Linux since it's the path of least resistance to their core audience.

I see this as nothing other than Valve hoping they carry enough weight to completely change their consumer base's OS habits based upon protecting their own cash cow that is Steam. Given how well they run Steam, and how many games I have on Steam, I don't see myself leaving Steam anytime soon, but if the Microsoft app store becomes what the Apple app store is, but for desktops, I think that it would quickly start getting some of my new purchases, mostly non-gaming, but eventually I'd have enough of a critical mass to buy games through it, too.

I said a long while back that Valve should probably have considered moving beyond games with Steam. That ship has sailed, so now they're trying to move beyond Windows. But it doesn't seem organic to me, it seems a bit like desperation.

If that is what Gabe and Valve are thinking, that people will change OS'es just to use their precious DRM laden digital store front. Then I want whatever drugs they're smoking.
 
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20. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 11:42 Beamer
 
Matshock wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 11:27:
Now we're getting somewhere- here's the rub:

1. MS might be declaring an effective end to PC AAA gaming with Windows 8. This might be intentional to force migration to XBOX 720.

2. What if Valve/Activision/etc. say FU to MS and now all PCs can have a Linux sector on their HDDs? They could just come up with an app that manages the sector size for you and can boot you to Linux with a simple double-click? Heck, with plenty of memory and a small OS footprint why no open it in a window? Heck why not have it be a transparent part of opening a game?

Just speculating there but I'm sticking to my opinion that this particular article makes no sense.


Microsoft definitely isn't saying that. If anything it seems like they're trying to blur the distinction between PC and 360. What is essentially a new, ugly start screen doesn't change that.

More likely, Microsoft is planning an app store that would be a direct competitor to Steam and undoubtedly steal some of Steam's growth potential (actually do some very serious damage to the growth potential.) So rather than sit there and take it Valve is desperately branching out to support other platforms, focusing mostly on Linux since it's the path of least resistance to their core audience.

I see this as nothing other than Valve hoping they carry enough weight to completely change their consumer base's OS habits based upon protecting their own cash cow that is Steam. Given how well they run Steam, and how many games I have on Steam, I don't see myself leaving Steam anytime soon, but if the Microsoft app store becomes what the Apple app store is, but for desktops, I think that it would quickly start getting some of my new purchases, mostly non-gaming, but eventually I'd have enough of a critical mass to buy games through it, too.

I said a long while back that Valve should probably have considered moving beyond games with Steam. That ship has sailed, so now they're trying to move beyond Windows. But it doesn't seem organic to me, it seems a bit like desperation.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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19. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 11:27 Matshock
 
Now we're getting somewhere- here's the rub:

1. MS might be declaring an effective end to PC AAA gaming with Windows 8. This might be intentional to force migration to XBOX 720.

2. What if Valve/Activision/etc. say FU to MS and now all PCs can have a Linux sector on their HDDs? They could just come up with an app that manages the sector size for you and can boot you to Linux with a simple double-click? Heck, with plenty of memory and a small OS footprint why no open it in a window? Heck why not have it be a transparent part of opening a game?

Just speculating there but I'm sticking to my opinion that this particular article makes no sense.

 
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18. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 11:17 MajorD
 

In comes down to this: Since adding Sony (PS3) to their offerings, and now Linux, OGL will be easier for them to develop with across the board on consoles and PCs. My guess is that the benchmarks and this article are being used to set the stage for their new Source Engine that is in development, which will only be supporting/using OGL.

 
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17. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 10:06 RollinThundr
 
Axis wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 22:31:
RollinThundr wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 22:17:
Matshock wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 21:08:
They keep leaving out what version of DirectX they're referencing. DX9 vs. today's OGL?

Journalism- making people with marketing degrees look smart.

Valve's also basing it on their shitty 10 year old engine.

Wow thunder you are clueless, hate to stoop so low to point out the obvious but you just are.

Do you have any idea why they benchmark and refine Engines like source, ut, gamebryo, etc? Do you know how many of these engines power AAA titles? Do you have any idea how immensely difficult and costly it is to create an "engine" to do what these popularly adopted ones do?

If you knew the answers, you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous statement.

You're aware the Source engine, tweaked or not is getting pretty long in the tooth at this point right? I do know Valve need not worry about money at this point, if they wanted to build a new engine along the lines of UnrealEngine 4 they could.

Though I'm sure they're not interested since they only work on things they're interested on, like Half Life 3. Oh wait..

All this test was was an agenda test what with Gabe's dismay over Win8 and Metro. Anyone with half a brain could realize that but then again I do realize who I'm talking to. I thought Krowen was delusional but shit you make him look smart.
 
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16. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 10:02 HorrorScope
 
Around the release of DX9 I thought there was many articles stating how DX left OGL in the dust, when prior the war was one. Now today if it is better again, well that hasn't been said enough yet to today's PC gamer.

Valve Scientists aren't a big enough example to state simply that it's faster. Especially with their new biases. I'm not saying yes or no, I'm saying I want more info... even though if it was, doesn't mean everyone runs to it.
 
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15. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 08:38 wtf_man
 
Wow... didn't know so many people were so passionate about DirectX.

I think what really matters is what you can do with the API. When DX9 came out... OGL started falling way behind on eye-candy features.

I don't know if that is still true today, but people complain that 2005-ish era graphics look like ass compared today (UT3, Source, Crytek 1, iD Tech 4, etc.)... and I think they look fine. Then again, I'm not a graphics whore (even though I can't stand crap like minecraft... I do have a minimum standard, which would be Quake 3 Arena / RTCW era stuff).
 
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14. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 07:21 UnderLord
 
I read this response by Nvidia to Linus' F-bomb - Nvidia Issues Diplomatic Response to Linus Torvalds' F-Bomb as subtly hinting that they soft-pedalled Linux driver development to keep the different platform performances 'consistent' as they put it.
In other words, Nvidia is well aware of the performance gains that *could* be gained on Linux / OpenGL and decided not to make it evident, for whatever marketing / butt-kissing / lucrative reason.
 
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13. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 05:11 killer_roach
 
Alamar wrote on Aug 3, 2012, 00:21:
With the same hardware, Windows 7/OpenGL/L4D2 clocks in at 303.4 fps compared to Windows 7/DirectX/L4D2 at 270.6 fps. In short: OpenGL is faster than DirectX.

So... If I find a game that runs faster on DirectX than OpenGL... Can I write an article saying that 'OpenGL is slower than DirectX'?

-Alamar

So... pretty much any non-Valve, non-id game that has both renderers?
 
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12. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 01:33 RailWizard
 
Was the vsync bug ever fixed in opengl? You know the one that existed for all of winxp's lifespan?  
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11. Re: Evening Tech Bits Aug 3, 2012, 00:21 Alamar
 
With the same hardware, Windows 7/OpenGL/L4D2 clocks in at 303.4 fps compared to Windows 7/DirectX/L4D2 at 270.6 fps. In short: OpenGL is faster than DirectX.

So... If I find a game that runs faster on DirectX than OpenGL... Can I write an article saying that 'OpenGL is slower than DirectX'?

-Alamar
 
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