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17. Re: etc. Aug 3, 2012, 07:44 jdreyer
 
Good points. I actually can't disagree too much that if the shit hit the fan, many human beings would turn very nasty in a hurry. Fortunately, things aren't too bad right now. And just as we've managed to stigmatize racists (although the battle goes on), we can also stigmatize sexists, and improve things for women.

I like games. I like women. I wish more women liked playing games, so I could combine two things I like. This guy is actively undermining that (on top of all the pain and humiliation visited upon this woman). He thought it was okay to do that. It would be great to divest him and all men like him of those thoughts.

I think the public can make great shifts in acceptability. Look at how the public has moved on the issue of gay marriage over the past 20 years, from 10% acceptance then to over 50% today. Most of that was caused just by raising awareness and showing that gays are real human beings that you know. The same can be done for women. You're right, you'll never stamp it out completely, and it might be worse online where anonymity makes it easier to get away with stuff. And yes, those thoughts and inclinations may always haunt the depths of men's souls. But opinion has moved vast distances on a number of contentious social issues, and I think we can on this one too.
 
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16. Re: etc. Aug 3, 2012, 03:54 Prez
 
2. Replace the girl in the video with a black dude. Do you think that he would have called him "n*gger" and "coon" and showed closeups of his afro and lips (analogous to what was done to the woman)? 50 years ago that would have been perfectly acceptable, today it would make you an anathema. Cultures change.

Bear in mind that things like slavery, genocide, and ethnic cleansing are as old as recorded history itself. Exploiting "inferior" or "weaker" races, ethnicities, religions, tribes, or whatever else marks us as different is something humanity has been doing since virtually the beginning of humanity itself. Thankfully our modern society has successfully attributed a negative stigma with people who attempt to revert back to this behavior (people by and large don't want to be around a 'racist' or 'bigot' for example), but I'm pretty confident that only has a shelf-life of about two seconds if there is a major societal upset (i.e. economic meltdown) or cultural implosion (i.e. civil war). I think back to the Darfurian, Rawandan, and Bosnian genocides, which in the big scheme of things are still very recent history.

3)...
We have anonymity here, true,though it's something I choose to not take advantage of (which you'll notice if you click on my forum name in the upper corner), and that's something I take a lot of grief over. The honest to God truth is that I have so little faith in the human race that I don't even trust myself completely - I feel that knowing that people can email me and find me on Facebook and figure out who I really am will serve as a further guarantee that I will "behave myself" as it were. And forum rules are what keep things here mostly civil (at least compared to unmoderated free-for-all chat rooms like Youtube comments sections - YIKES!) - this is a cool site and the threat of being banned is enough for most of us who come here for games news and chat. As for sexist attitudes, well, it would be easy to just say men are men and men are pigs, and leave it at that. But given just how sexualized women are in virtually every aspect of modern society - from porn (never seems to be a shortage of women willing to be filmed), to advertising (Sex sells! EVERYTHING!), to who we idolize and make celebrities (name one ugly famous female singer or actress)- and I think it becomes obvious that women themselves have played a major role in it by being all-too-willing participants. Given how guys are wired, is it so hard to envision exactly why sexism is so prevalent? Right or wrong. I think it is at least partially a case of being products of our environment.

4)..
You very well could be right, but given what I've seen and experienced, as well as what I've come to discover about the human race by analyzing myself, I tend to think that any reverting will be in the form of behavioral regression. There is a reason I think that most post-apocalyptic scenarios that get played out in books and movies always assume that in the absence of civilization humanity returns to a dark and primitive "Lord of the Flies" set of laws and rules. It would seem the most likely scenario to me, and apparently to most everyone who writes books and screenplays!

This comment was edited on Aug 3, 2012, 04:01.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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15. Re: etc. Aug 3, 2012, 01:31 jdreyer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 22:15:
You'll never get rid of sexism on the internet, but you can certainly reduce and mitigate it.

Unless a universal system is devised where everyone uses their real nam e and links their chat persona to their facebook account, no you can't. You can't change human nature. You can suppress it under the right circumstances (the culture you are speaking of) but not online. Mind you I'm not defending disrespecting anyone; it's just painful to watch people operate under the illusion that we can somehow change human nature with good intentions and a firm talking to. The most anyone can do is not partake in it themselves; you'll have an easier time making the sun stop rising every day than stopping humans from behaving like humans. For all of our technological advances and power of reason, we are still no better than animals, and in some ways much, much worse.

Well, a few things.

1. Right, our argument is strictly about the ability of humans to change their behavior. I never got that you were defending their actions.

2. Replace the girl in the video with a black dude. Do you think that he would have called him "n*gger" and "coon" and showed closeups of his afro and lips (analogous to what was done to the woman)? 50 years ago that would have been perfectly acceptable, today it would make you an anathema. Cultures change.

3. As for online, it seems like you're saying when granted anonymity, humans will revert to their base selves. This very forum is anonymous , but Blue is able to maintain ethical standards here. Also, are you saying we revert to the same sexist attitudes as men in Afghanistan just because we're anonymous?

4. Humans are complex creatures. We have the capacity to be both sexist and violent as well as nurturing and compassionate. And both of these extremes seem to have a genetic component. Since it's also in our nature to be kind, isn't it just as likely we'll revert to this inclination? Isn't it possible to push people in one direction or the other? Can't raging hormones be directed to kindness and compliments just as easily as abuse and objectification?
 
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14. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 22:15 Prez
 
You'll never get rid of sexism on the internet, but you can certainly reduce and mitigate it.

Unless a universal system is devised where everyone uses their real nam e and links their chat persona to their facebook account, no you can't. You can't change human nature. You can suppress it under the right circumstances (the culture you are speaking of) but not online. Mind you I'm not defending disrespecting anyone; it's just painful to watch people operate under the illusion that we can somehow change human nature with good intentions and a firm talking to. The most anyone can do is not partake in it themselves; you'll have an easier time making the sun stop rising every day than stopping humans from behaving like humans. For all of our technological advances and power of reason, we are still no better than animals, and in some ways much, much worse.

This comment was edited on Aug 2, 2012, 22:26.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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13. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 21:51 jdreyer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 17:54:
Yaogun wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 17:27:
You can't change anything, so don't even try! Seriously, nobody can be held responsible for their actions, for reals... I mean think of the horror if we called people on their... Wait, what are you doing? I said you can't... It won't work... nobody... responsible... No no don't turn the light on.... MEEEEE!!! Noooooooooooo!!

I certainly can't change you from acting like a complete ass. People are just going to be what they want to be. Thanks for making my point for me.

Dude, Yaogun is taking you to the woodshed.

You'll never get rid of sexism on the internet, but you can certainly reduce and mitigate it. Human beings are the most trainable animals on the planet and can overcome our more base instincts. Also, creating a culture where it's not tolerated is vital. Women ride in the same train cars as men in the USA without a second thought. In India, sexual harassment is so pervasive that the gov't had to create separate train cars for women only. Women who don't ride in them can be verbally abused or worse.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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12. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 21:27 Julio
 
I don't want to see either of their tits. His are probably bigger than hers...  
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11. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 18:39 HorrorScope
 
Here's my balls, fucking take them already.  
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10. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 18:38 J
 
... aaaand we're done.  
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9. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 18:01 space captain
 
TITS OR GTFO  
Go forth, and kill!
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8. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 17:54 Prez
 
Yaogun wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 17:27:
You can't change anything, so don't even try! Seriously, nobody can be held responsible for their actions, for reals... I mean think of the horror if we called people on their... Wait, what are you doing? I said you can't... It won't work... nobody... responsible... No no don't turn the light on.... MEEEEE!!! Noooooooooooo!!

I certainly can't change you from acting like a complete ass. People are just going to be what they want to be. Thanks for making my point for me.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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7. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 17:37 Dades
 
Yaogun wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 17:27:
You can't change anything, so don't even try! Seriously, nobody can be held responsible for their actions, for reals... I mean think of the horror if we called people on their... Wait, what are you doing? I said you can't... It won't work... nobody... responsible... No no don't turn the light on.... MEEEEE!!! Noooooooooooo!!

If sarcasm is the final destination of comics then you are the Carlos Mencia of the forums.
 
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6. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 17:27 Yaogun
 
You can't change anything, so don't even try! Seriously, nobody can be held responsible for their actions, for reals... I mean think of the horror if we called people on their... Wait, what are you doing? I said you can't... It won't work... nobody... responsible... No no don't turn the light on.... MEEEEE!!! Noooooooooooo!!  
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5. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 16:29 Prez
 
Yaogun wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 15:57:
Being a jerk and treating women like crap is ingrained in my biology, man! I couldn't do anything about it if I WANTED to! Making a flash game where you can beat up a woman who had the audacity to, um, make some videos that I don't have to watch or donate money to is, like, evolution and stuff! I have no control. Calling women who game online fat sluts is just the way human men are wired dude! I'm not responsible for anything! BIOTRUTHS.

The fact that most of us are able to repress the more unsavory inclinations of our base nature doesn't change the fact that it is in our base nature. Which means there is no eliminating this sort of behavior in online environments completely - there will always be instances of regression, and in environments that foster anonymity and lack of consequence it can spread fast. The behavior of the game coach in the story is obviously something that can and should be addressed, but you are living in a dream world if you think that we can somehow shield people from ever being exposed to this online. Not gonna happen.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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4. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 16:00 Beamer
 
Yaogun wrote on Aug 2, 2012, 15:57:
Being a jerk and treating women like crap is ingrained in my biology, man! I couldn't do anything about it if I WANTED to! Making a flash game where you can beat up a woman who had the audacity to, um, make some videos that I don't have to watch or donate money to is, like, evolution and stuff! I have no control. Calling women who game online fat sluts is just the way human men are wired dude! I'm not responsible for anything! BIOTRUTHS.

Yup, and we haven't repressed any other basic animal urges for the good of society and to make people feel more comfortable.
 
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3. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 15:57 Yaogun
 
Being a jerk and treating women like crap is ingrained in my biology, man! I couldn't do anything about it if I WANTED to! Making a flash game where you can beat up a woman who had the audacity to, um, make some videos that I don't have to watch or donate money to is, like, evolution and stuff! I have no control. Calling women who game online fat sluts is just the way human men are wired dude! I'm not responsible for anything! BIOTRUTHS.  
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2. Re: etc. Aug 2, 2012, 14:16 Verno
 
It's no different from the woman in a dress walking by a construction site full of guys on break, a cliche that's pretty worn but still plays out in day to day life. As Prez says, just human nature at work. Women are mainly different in that they scrutinize themselves and other women as much as men but are generally more restrained in the act. With guys it goes back to evolutionary roots, attracting the attention of a mate and all that bullshit.  
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1. Sexual Harassment in Online Gaming Stirs Anger Aug 2, 2012, 12:50 Prez
 
You can't fix base human nature.  
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