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Morning Consolidation

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17 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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17. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 23:14 Beamer
 
But it looks miles better than Xbox launch titles, which is really what you should be comparing it to if you want to judge whether it's reasonable to demand every single title ever released for the system should be 60fps.  
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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16. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 22:15 eunichron
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 21:08:
eunichron wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 19:53:
My PC is near top of the line, about the only thing keeping it from being "extreme" level is lack of SLI. I can run BF3 with everything except AA totally maxed (I keep AA around 2x) at 1920x1080 and still average 70 FPS. The lowest I ever see it dip is 50-55... however, my PC is a $3,000 system, and obviously the Xbox 720 isn't going to have the same level of hardware so that it can keep costs down.

Just a quick question:

HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO SPEND $3000 AND NOT END UP WITH SLI???

Oh, unless you bought one of those dual chip cards like the GTX 690?

Probably not anywhere near $3,000, but I have an i7 3960X and a GTX 680 as the most expensive components. I have a friend that works at Intel who hooked me up with some employee pricing (and he donated about $4,000 worth of SSDs), so I was making a guesstimation as to what my system would cost off the shelf. I actually only spent about $1500 out of pocket.

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 21:32:
But what about 3 years later? 5 years later? Should every game look like BF3 so that your PC can keep near 60fps?

I was only using my PC as a gauge for what the actual consumer hardware level of the console might be, to say that it is possible for a machine built today to run games at a steady 60FPS in 1080p. The console hardware is static, it's not going to change in 3-5 years, so it stands to reason that if Xbox 720 launch games look like BF3 (i.e. the most current full DX11 game), the games coming out in 3-5 years will still look like BF3, because the games will still be DX11 on DX11 hardware, while the PC will be on DX12 or 13... it's the same situation we're in now with consoles still being DX9. Sure, developers have come up with some neat tricks, but BF3 on Xbox 360 still looks like dog shit compared to BF3 on PC.
 
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15. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 21:32 Beamer
 
eunichron wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 19:53:
Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 17:28:
As others said, it would be nice if it forced 1080p, but even then... did Halo 3 look significantly worse than any other game because of its resolution? I'd argue no, even on a giant TV. I'd be ok with the system dropping to lower resolutions in favor of more fluid action for certain games. (Halo 3, for the record, looked worse due to its morbidly low poly count. But decent lighting and particle effects seemed to have made plenty of people miss that.)



My PC is near top of the line, about the only thing keeping it from being "extreme" level is lack of SLI. I can run BF3 with everything except AA totally maxed (I keep AA around 2x) at 1920x1080 and still average 70 FPS. The lowest I ever see it dip is 50-55... however, my PC is a $3,000 system, and obviously the Xbox 720 isn't going to have the same level of hardware so that it can keep costs down. If you take into consideration that consoles are built for a single purpose and so don't require the 'extra' power to achieve the same performance, it would be perfectly feasible to build a $500 console that can still do 60 FPS at 1080p, 30 FPS at 1080p would be an absolute minimum.

Yes. You can run nearly every game out today at 60fps. Fantastic. And every Xbox 720 game should run at 60fps at launch. Sure.

But what about 3 years later? 5 years later? Should every game look like BF3 so that your PC can keep near 60fps?
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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14. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 21:08 jdreyer
 
eunichron wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 19:53:
My PC is near top of the line, about the only thing keeping it from being "extreme" level is lack of SLI. I can run BF3 with everything except AA totally maxed (I keep AA around 2x) at 1920x1080 and still average 70 FPS. The lowest I ever see it dip is 50-55... however, my PC is a $3,000 system, and obviously the Xbox 720 isn't going to have the same level of hardware so that it can keep costs down.

Just a quick question:

HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO SPEND $3000 AND NOT END UP WITH SLI???

Oh, unless you bought one of those dual chip cards like the GTX 690?
 
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13. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 20:11 SimplyMonk
 
eunichron wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 19:53:
...it would be perfectly feasible to build a $500 console that can still do 60 FPS at 1080p, 30 FPS at 1080p would be an absolute minimum.

Exactly. When you know the exact hardware configuration you are coding for (or a really good generic interface), you can make a lot of performance shortcuts that you can't get when you are trying to code for a PC platform that can have a plethora of nuances.
 
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12. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 19:53 eunichron
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 17:28:
As others said, it would be nice if it forced 1080p, but even then... did Halo 3 look significantly worse than any other game because of its resolution? I'd argue no, even on a giant TV. I'd be ok with the system dropping to lower resolutions in favor of more fluid action for certain games. (Halo 3, for the record, looked worse due to its morbidly low poly count. But decent lighting and particle effects seemed to have made plenty of people miss that.)

My PC is near top of the line, about the only thing keeping it from being "extreme" level is lack of SLI. I can run BF3 with everything except AA totally maxed (I keep AA around 2x) at 1920x1080 and still average 70 FPS. The lowest I ever see it dip is 50-55... however, my PC is a $3,000 system, and obviously the Xbox 720 isn't going to have the same level of hardware so that it can keep costs down. If you take into consideration that consoles are built for a single purpose and so don't require the 'extra' power to achieve the same performance, it would be perfectly feasible to build a $500 console that can still do 60 FPS at 1080p, 30 FPS at 1080p would be an absolute minimum.
 
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11. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 17:28 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 17:22:
Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 12:21:
avianflu wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 12:17:
if it can actually run at 60 frames per second on all games made for it? That would be interesting.

That's a weird thing, though. No hardware can guarantee that. My computer can't. Your computer can't. So either you have a policy that forces it, and limits creativity, or you accept that not everything can run at 60 fps. Some game genres don't need to, so it's better to push the limits of the machine than do 60 fps.


Is that a requirement for the system? I think they had a 30 fps or 24 fps requirement for 360.

That is a more sensible requirement, as anything under is objectively unplayable, but even then it's not something easy to force. Any good developer will try to push the limits of a system, and pushed limits will absolutely fall below 60fps at times (and it's a fine tradeoff in many circumstances.)

As others said, it would be nice if it forced 1080p, but even then... did Halo 3 look significantly worse than any other game because of its resolution? I'd argue no, even on a giant TV. I'd be ok with the system dropping to lower resolutions in favor of more fluid action for certain games. (Halo 3, for the record, looked worse due to its morbidly low poly count. But decent lighting and particle effects seemed to have made plenty of people miss that.)

Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't tell Halo 3 was a lesser resolution than any other Xbox game. I think the decision to render lower and upscale in favor of more fluid graphics was fine for that game. I think some games that go to 30fps are fine, too. There are other games that do one or the other and look pitiful for it. I blame the dev, not the console. Bad developers that can't properly prioritize.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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10. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 17:22 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 12:21:
avianflu wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 12:17:
if it can actually run at 60 frames per second on all games made for it? That would be interesting.

That's a weird thing, though. No hardware can guarantee that. My computer can't. Your computer can't. So either you have a policy that forces it, and limits creativity, or you accept that not everything can run at 60 fps. Some game genres don't need to, so it's better to push the limits of the machine than do 60 fps.


Is that a requirement for the system? I think they had a 30 fps or 24 fps requirement for 360.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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9. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 17:17 Mordecai Walfish
 
So Microsoft has had both it's roadmap for the next Xbox and the development kit leaked so far.. and it hasn't even been announced yet!

You know how many FBI agents Apple would have up in this guy's shit right now if it was their IP?

I'm sure he got *much* more than the $10,000 he was originally asking, likely from some shady middleman who has gotten it into Sony or Nintendo's hands.

Interesting start for the ol' MS on this round.
 
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8. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 17:15 Creston
 
avianflu wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 12:17:
if it can actually run at 60 frames per second on all games made for it? That would be interesting.

I'd settle for a console that can actually fucking run 1080p without stuttering all the damn time. Oh, and a console that, you know, actually keeps working. There better be a fucking SLEW of people praising the 720 for its technical quality.

/still pissed at his 360 dying and MS refusing to fucking fix it. Assholes.

Creston
 
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7. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 17:06 Tim Collins
 
the jist is that it the 720 will be a Intel/Nvidia system thats basically a pc.  
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6. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 15:55 nin
 
DangerDog wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 15:38:
If only I could plug a mouse and keyboard into the final version

You can plug them in on the 360 now...of course, having them recognized is another thing entirely.

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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5. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 15:50 Fantaz
 
lol, the guy selling the dev kit sounds like some nut job on twitter...

https://twitter.com/superdae
 
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4. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 15:38 DangerDog
 
If only I could plug a mouse and keyboard into the final version  
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3. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 13:43 RailWizard
 
Yeah, that would be too much work....  
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2. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 12:21 Beamer
 
avianflu wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 12:17:
if it can actually run at 60 frames per second on all games made for it? That would be interesting.

That's a weird thing, though. No hardware can guarantee that. My computer can't. Your computer can't. So either you have a policy that forces it, and limits creativity, or you accept that not everything can run at 60 fps. Some game genres don't need to, so it's better to push the limits of the machine than do 60 fps.

 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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1. Re: Morning Consolidation Jul 30, 2012, 12:17 avianflu
 
if it can actually run at 60 frames per second on all games made for it? That would be interesting.  
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