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14. Re: etc. Jul 31, 2012, 00:58 Ant
 
raVen wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 02:38:
...Another reason I've been ATi/AMD for the past 2-3 generations, because I know open source Linux support actually exists from AMD.
But the opensource video performances suck.
 
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13. Re: RE: Follow up Jul 30, 2012, 15:39 Verno
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 14:13:
It's available, some companies use it. But right now, until developers get tired of taking the MS DX royalty fees out the ass, that won't change.

While one can argue about the OS fees themselves being a royalty or tax, development with DirectX (and XNA) is royalty free.

In any case, Valve is just laying the ground work so that they won't be totally fucked if the Windows empire totally falls by the wayside.
 
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12. Re: RE: Follow up Jul 30, 2012, 14:13 Mashiki Amiketo
 
UConnBBall wrote on Jul 29, 2012, 23:57:
Open GL is far from dead and really could take over this DirectX crap.
OGL is dead in the water right now, there's no mainstream adaption for it. It's available, some companies use it. But right now, until developers get tired of taking the MS DX royalty fees out the ass, that won't change.

My other point, like this one on the drivers stand as well.
 
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and it is always wrong."
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11. Re: etc. Jul 30, 2012, 10:29 HorrorScope
 
Here's what happens...

Steam comes out for Linux. Valve brings out a few of their games and bring over one's that already have Linux ports. It will be small vs what's on Windows Steam.

But a few can make a mountain out of a mole hill. So they will just add this rally cry to their forum arsenal:

"No buy unless it's on Steam Linux"

Added to their other cries of:

"It has to be on Steam"
"It has to be DRM free" (for some reason they don't count steam as drm)
"Wait for a Steam Sale"

Can't be from a half dozen distributors in which they are boycotting.

Goes on and on...
 
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10. Re: etc. Jul 30, 2012, 08:52 Dmitri_M
 
lol. linux.  
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9. Re: etc. Jul 30, 2012, 02:38 raVen
 
The Half Elf wrote on Jul 29, 2012, 19:27:
Question:
If Linux is saying 'Fuck you!' to Nvidia due to bad drivers, why would I want to go to a brand spanking new OS, with bad driver support?

In context that was said about a specific chipset that NVidia decided not to support (Laptop chipset that had an intel graphics chip and an NV chip that the user could switch back and forth)

NVidia has never been 'opensource' friendly either. But they do provide a binary driver (something just like you'd get in windows) that would usually do the trick. (however in this instance, even the binary blob didn't perform as advertised: Hence, the pissed off consumers and Linus.)

Another reason I've been ATi/AMD for the past 2-3 generations, because I know open source Linux support actually exists from AMD.
 
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8. Re: RE: Follow up Jul 30, 2012, 02:17 NKD
 
Gaming on Linux... yeah. Here we go again. Until there is huge adoption of Linux by gamers, developers aren't going to bother with it. Valve is pretty much the exception since they have a vault filled with gold and jewels that would make Scrooge McDuck jealous and are not beholden to stockholders. Small indies can get away with it too.

But that's not enough support. You can already run Steam and much of its catalog in WINE at acceptable performance levels and people still don't use Linux. Shit, they don't even dual boot Linux, or pop in a USB stick and run it from there with no reformating hassle. Even Windows can't do that. Linux gaming is super accessible and people still aren't adopting it.

Gamers have no one to blame but themselves. You can't expect corporations to bet against the market by investing in a platform that you yourselves aren't willing to even invest five minutes of your time into.
 
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7. Re: RE: Follow up Jul 29, 2012, 23:57 UConnBBall
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jul 29, 2012, 21:16:
The Half Elf wrote on Jul 29, 2012, 19:27:

The real problem with linux, is the support between the driver and the api. Wine does this pretty well, though native support for games would work better, valve does seem to be committed to it. Especially since they're working to port all of their games natively.

This is about OPEN SOURCE DRIVERS in Linux Kernal
A) NVIDIA has good Linux propitiatory drivers its just the Open Source ones only pushed out 1/3 FPS so 20 instead of 60 FPS

B) ATI (not ATI) is MUCH better then NVIDIA: AMD released their drivers into Open Source Land 3 years ago. It's just people still think ATI of 5 years ago. Its like the myth that AMD CPU is good for games and INTEL cpu is better for business???????

Open GL is dead in the water WHAT?????
Open GL is far from dead and really could take over this DirectX crap.
 
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6. Re: etc. Jul 29, 2012, 21:16 Mashiki Amiketo
 
The Half Elf wrote on Jul 29, 2012, 19:27:
Question:
If Linux is saying 'Fuck you!' to Nvidia due to bad drivers, why would I want to go to a brand spanking new OS, with bad driver support?
Linux isn't. Torvalds is throwing his usual hissy fit over it like usual. And it isn't any worse or any better than ATI, so where does that leave linux in the end? Not much of anywhere really. Though it does appear that both nvidia and ati were listening to the complaints over what he had to say.

The real problem with linux, is the support between the driver and the api. Wine does this pretty well, though native support for games would work better, valve does seem to be committed to it. Especially since they're working to port all of their games natively.

bhcompy wrote on Jul 29, 2012, 20:07:
Steam on Linux isn't a hedge against Windows 8. It's the next logical progression from converting their engine to OpenGL for Mac and PS3. Why not add other platforms that support OpenGL and promote cross OS play when you have that capability already?
Chances are they won't have to hedge against windows 8. It'll be dead in the water as an OS, failing worse than vista. And getting developers to play nice back on OGL again is like pulling teeth, because as one of my buddies put it: "It's so fucking political, that even the politicians that run it, aren't sure if their heads are in their assholes, or if their assholes are their heads." It'll happen eventually, since the fiasco of OGL3, the bickering has gotten less, and all that. But until they can get more people back on board from the 1.1/2.0 days, OGL is dead in the water still.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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5. Re: etc. Jul 29, 2012, 20:07 bhcompy
 
Steam on Linux isn't a hedge against Windows 8. It's the next logical progression from converting their engine to OpenGL for Mac and PS3. Why not add other platforms that support OpenGL and promote cross OS play when you have that capability already?  
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4. Re: etc. Jul 29, 2012, 19:27 The Half Elf
 
Question:
If Linux is saying 'Fuck you!' to Nvidia due to bad drivers, why would I want to go to a brand spanking new OS, with bad driver support?
 
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3. Re: etc. Jul 29, 2012, 19:24 Cutter
 
Give me most games on Linux and I'll never look at Windows again. That's why it's always boggled my mind that with such a large percentage - and always growing - of people who use Windows mainly for gaming that MS doesn't have the intelligence to make it THEE gaming platform of choice. Had they put the time, money and effot into making windows the gaming platform of choice there would be no console wars. Hell we probably wouldn't have even had a PS3 and Wii. Even at best they'd have been a niche market and MS would be a hell of a lot more profitable.

 
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2. Re: etc. Jul 29, 2012, 18:25 Panickd
 
I don't think that average PC users are ever going to adopt Linux en masse, but I do think that there is enough of a market in the Linux space to warrant Valve porting Steam whether it's a "hedge" against Win 8 or not. I hate it when I see articles saying "porting a handful of Valve titles isn't going to make Linux a gaming OS" when in fact if you look into the indie games that are already sold on Steam a whole lot of them have Linux versions out there. I like that Valve is taking the risk doing a Steam port and I wholeheartedly support it. My Ubuntu box could use some gaming love.  
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1. Re: etc. Jul 29, 2012, 17:32 jdreyer
 
I'd set up a linux box if Valve made a Linux version of Steam. I have a bunch of old PCs sitting around doing nothing.  
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