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20. Re: etc., etc. Jul 27, 2012, 19:31 Beamer
 
Ruffiana wrote on Jul 27, 2012, 18:25:
Beamer wrote on Jul 27, 2012, 08:10:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:34:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:07:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:47:
Why even bother putting that in the listing? They can just check it on their own when reviewing resumes.

It's a filter: if you didn't make this grade, don't even bother, we won't even look at you. But I've found in hiring that you often make a job description as your ideal candidate, but never reach that ideal, usually compromising on some things when you hire.

Oh I get that. It was more of a rhetorical question. Whoever put that in there should've known it would stir up articles like these and they could've kept the score part of it secret. "Must have worked on a critically acclaimed game."

Yeah, but every jackass argues that their flop was critically acclaimed. Like everyone says, this is an aspirational filter. It hopefully gets the guy that designed a game rated 50 to keep away so they have fewer resumes to go through.

Remember, it isn't like this is looking for an artist, it's looking for a design manager - a person directly in control of the quality of the title. As flawed as metacritic is, it's fair to pin quality of the shipped title to them, and metacritic is the only metric out there for it. I'm sure Irrational hates the metric as much as anyone else, but by putting it in there it will help keep unqualified people away.

If the design manager of New Vegas were to apply I'm sure he wouldn't be ignored because it was an 84...

You vastly overestimate how much influence an individual manager has on the quality and/or aggregate rating for a game they worked on.

The whole thing just reeks of laziness. I can't be bothered to look at the games this candidate was responsible for so if they're highly rated, they must be good and therefore he will make good games for us if we hire him. Right. No consideration for type of game, budget, timelines, genre. You think the budget doesn't have a huge impact on how well a game is received. You think the marketting budget alone doesn't have a huge impact? Explain how the design manager is responsible for the publisher refusing to pay for a quality game or properly market the game once it's done.

Arguably, failure is much more valuable experience. If you fail to make a good game, chances are you probably know exactly why. If you make a moderately successful game, you run the risk of now knowing how to make a good game and losing the drive to do better.

It's a dumb req and willing to bet that ultimately they hire someone who has more relevant experience and is a better fit personality wise, but hasn't actually worked on an 85+ rated game. That or they'll end up paying out the ass for some rock-star talent and end up with a game in the 85 range.

This is a lot of excuse making.
Irrational is probably in the top 5 for most respected developers. They're not looking for someone that has had the experience you mentioned. They're looking for someone that has had an incredibly strong background. In other words, they're not looking for someone that will be full of potential, but someone at the top of their game.

If you made a few failed games and think you know how to succeed there are plenty of studios that want you. Go to one and prove that you actually can do it. A studio like Irrational want someone that maybe made a few failed games, learned how to succeed, and has already proved that.

For some reason people always feel like everyone needs to take a chance. They get angry at experience requirements in job ads and say things like "it's not my fault, I can still do the job really damn well!" Yeah, but so can a few billion other people that HAVE the exact experience wanted. Some places can afford to be that picky. Some places can't. Irrational can.
 
-------------
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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19. Re: etc., etc. Jul 27, 2012, 18:25 Ruffiana
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 27, 2012, 08:10:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:34:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:07:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:47:
Why even bother putting that in the listing? They can just check it on their own when reviewing resumes.

It's a filter: if you didn't make this grade, don't even bother, we won't even look at you. But I've found in hiring that you often make a job description as your ideal candidate, but never reach that ideal, usually compromising on some things when you hire.

Oh I get that. It was more of a rhetorical question. Whoever put that in there should've known it would stir up articles like these and they could've kept the score part of it secret. "Must have worked on a critically acclaimed game."

Yeah, but every jackass argues that their flop was critically acclaimed. Like everyone says, this is an aspirational filter. It hopefully gets the guy that designed a game rated 50 to keep away so they have fewer resumes to go through.

Remember, it isn't like this is looking for an artist, it's looking for a design manager - a person directly in control of the quality of the title. As flawed as metacritic is, it's fair to pin quality of the shipped title to them, and metacritic is the only metric out there for it. I'm sure Irrational hates the metric as much as anyone else, but by putting it in there it will help keep unqualified people away.

If the design manager of New Vegas were to apply I'm sure he wouldn't be ignored because it was an 84...

You vastly overestimate how much influence an individual manager has on the quality and/or aggregate rating for a game they worked on.

The whole thing just reeks of laziness. I can't be bothered to look at the games this candidate was responsible for so if they're highly rated, they must be good and therefore he will make good games for us if we hire him. Right. No consideration for type of game, budget, timelines, genre. You think the budget doesn't have a huge impact on how well a game is received. You think the marketting budget alone doesn't have a huge impact? Explain how the design manager is responsible for the publisher refusing to pay for a quality game or properly market the game once it's done.

Arguably, failure is much more valuable experience. If you fail to make a good game, chances are you probably know exactly why. If you make a moderately successful game, you run the risk of now knowing how to make a good game and losing the drive to do better.

It's a dumb req and willing to bet that ultimately they hire someone who has more relevant experience and is a better fit personality wise, but hasn't actually worked on an 85+ rated game. That or they'll end up paying out the ass for some rock-star talent and end up with a game in the 85 range.
 
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18. Re: etc., etc. Jul 27, 2012, 08:10 Beamer
 
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:34:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:07:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:47:
Why even bother putting that in the listing? They can just check it on their own when reviewing resumes.

It's a filter: if you didn't make this grade, don't even bother, we won't even look at you. But I've found in hiring that you often make a job description as your ideal candidate, but never reach that ideal, usually compromising on some things when you hire.

Oh I get that. It was more of a rhetorical question. Whoever put that in there should've known it would stir up articles like these and they could've kept the score part of it secret. "Must have worked on a critically acclaimed game."

Yeah, but every jackass argues that their flop was critically acclaimed. Like everyone says, this is an aspirational filter. It hopefully gets the guy that designed a game rated 50 to keep away so they have fewer resumes to go through.

Remember, it isn't like this is looking for an artist, it's looking for a design manager - a person directly in control of the quality of the title. As flawed as metacritic is, it's fair to pin quality of the shipped title to them, and metacritic is the only metric out there for it. I'm sure Irrational hates the metric as much as anyone else, but by putting it in there it will help keep unqualified people away.

If the design manager of New Vegas were to apply I'm sure he wouldn't be ignored because it was an 84...
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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17. Re: etc., etc. Jul 27, 2012, 03:14 Dmitri_M
 
How about working on a PC only title and having a recruiter (mind you, an agency recruiter not one that worked for an actual game company - still, it speaks to all of their collective "minds") say: "Hmm, that PC title is hardcore, only weirdo's play that, only people who never leave the house play that." Translation: Are you a weirdo?

PC gaming. Giving street cred to developers everywhere.

Cutter wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 23:04:
It's not so much a filter for experience as it is for chutzpah. They want someone who really wants to be there. And if said person can sell them on themself without the experience he stands a damn good chance of landing the job.
Likely they'll just ignore or filter you out. In the days of Skype interviews and "apply by e-mail only no walk-ins or phone calls" your notion of chutzpah is archaic.

This comment was edited on Jul 27, 2012, 03:54.
 
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16. Re: etc., etc. Jul 27, 2012, 01:04 Silicon Avatar
 
This is the kind of crap you run into when 5000 people want to apply for the same job and HR doesn't feel like sorting through all the apps.

Fair enough I guess, but Metacritic is the best metric they could come up with? Really?

 
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15. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 23:04 Cutter
 
It's not so much a filter for experience as it is for chutzpah. They want someone who really wants to be there. And if said person can sell them on themself without the experience he stands a damn good chance of landing the job.  
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14. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 22:34 Sepharo
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 22:07:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:47:
Why even bother putting that in the listing? They can just check it on their own when reviewing resumes.

It's a filter: if you didn't make this grade, don't even bother, we won't even look at you. But I've found in hiring that you often make a job description as your ideal candidate, but never reach that ideal, usually compromising on some things when you hire.

Oh I get that. It was more of a rhetorical question. Whoever put that in there should've known it would stir up articles like these and they could've kept the score part of it secret. "Must have worked on a critically acclaimed game."
 
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13. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 22:31 Prez
 
It's a filter: if you didn't make this grade, don't even bother, we won't even look at you. But I've found in hiring that you often make a job description as your ideal candidate, but never reach that ideal, usually compromising on some things when you hire.

Yep. Our Electrical/Instrumentation Tech listing ask for 5 years experience in each and a Journeyman's license. The last guy we hired had no instrument experience and didn't even have his apprentice license yet. Not too long ago I was offered a job that required an electrical engineering degree even though I never finished mine.
 
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12. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 22:07 jdreyer
 
Sepharo wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:47:
Why even bother putting that in the listing? They can just check it on their own when reviewing resumes.

It's a filter: if you didn't make this grade, don't even bother, we won't even look at you. But I've found in hiring that you often make a job description as your ideal candidate, but never reach that ideal, usually compromising on some things when you hire.
 
Avatar 22024
 
"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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11. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 22:05 jdreyer
 
Is there any other industry that does this?

Cinematographer wanted: Must have worked on a movie that scored 85% on Rottentomoatoes.

Studio Engineer wanted: Must have worked on a song ranked on the Billboard top 100 for 3 weeks or more.

Maybe it isn't as crazy as it sounds. I wonder if there isn't an upside to focusing on Metacritic instead of profits? Less Rage and MW3 and more Portal and Bioshock? But Metacritic is hardly a foolproof measure of quality. Doom 3 gets an 87%, while Battlefield 2 gets an 80%? I think most people would agree those should be flipped at least.
 
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10. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 21:50 DarkCntry
 
Veterator wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:35:
No less nuts than the majority of other job ads out there. Who want to give entry level pay for 10-20 years experience on tech that has only been out for 2 years. And the job ends up being something completely different, yet no one in the chain can seem to communicate effectively enough to make the job ad reflect WTF they are looking for.

How people manage to hire via the mechanics and BS we have in place just amazes me. I think they just hire via employee referrals anymore.


The difference is that Metacritic is an aggregate of opinions, and not of actual ability.
 
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9. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 21:47 Sepharo
 
Why even bother putting that in the listing? They can just check it on their own when reviewing resumes.  
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8. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 21:39 Prez
 
Devinoch wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 20:33:

Well, the company is called Irrational Games.

*rimshot*

Danke, I vill be here all ze week.

LOL! Good one!

This is just nuts.
 
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7. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 21:35 Veterator
 
No less nuts than the majority of other job ads out there. Who want to give entry level pay for 10-20 years experience on tech that has only been out for 2 years. And the job ends up being something completely different, yet no one in the chain can seem to communicate effectively enough to make the job ad reflect WTF they are looking for.

How people manage to hire via the mechanics and BS we have in place just amazes me. I think they just hire via employee referrals anymore.

 
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6. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 21:23 DarkCntry
 
wtf_man wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 21:18:
If this is for Bioshock Infinite... aren't they a bit fuckin' late trying to hire a designer?

I would assume much like the last line of the article that it may be more for a future title than Bioshock Infinite, as it's far too along in the process to brief a new design manager.
 
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5. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 21:18 wtf_man
 
If this is for Bioshock Infinite... aren't they a bit fuckin' late trying to hire a designer?  
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4. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 20:41 Bet
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 20:32:
It'd be funny if Irrational's next game bombs on Metacritic. Then they could all fire themselves.
The magic 8 ball says... it is likely!
 
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3. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 20:33 Devinoch
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Jul 26, 2012, 20:32:
Sounds like a company to walk away from - or they have a clueless stupid HR department.


Well, the company is called Irrational Games.

*rimshot*

Danke, I vill be here all ze week.
 
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2. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 20:32 Silicon Avatar
 
Sounds like a company to walk away from - or they have a clueless stupid HR department.

It'd be funny if Irrational's next game bombs on Metacritic. Then they could all fire themselves.
 
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1. Re: etc., etc. Jul 26, 2012, 20:28 DarkCntry
 
Now this is one helluva horrible precedent.  
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