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Quoteworthy - "Windows 8 is a Catastrophe" - Gabe Newell

"The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior," says Valve's Gabe Newell as quoted on AllThingsD. "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality." Thanks VG247.

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165 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 5.
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85. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 21:14 RollinThundr
 
NKD wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 20:51:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 20:29:
The biggest thing Windows 8 has working against it in my views is how awesome Windows 7 is. I never even considered Vista for the same reason - I saw no reason to upgrade from XP, which was fabulous (and still is - 3 of my machines still run it and they just purr along without a hitch). Their business model may now rely on frequent OS releases, but I think that really works against them.

Frequent releases can work out in their favor, provided they do it right. People hate change. Any change, for better or worse, requires people to adapt to it. This is especially true of interface changes as it effectively slows you down.

The more incrementally you make that change, the more accepting people will be of it. After Windows 8, Microsoft needs to do a new version every two years with mostly incremental improvements and a cheap upgrade cost. It'll cut down on piracy and ease upgrade shock.

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 20:48:
Probably the best since Win2000.

Win2k is the most under-appreciated Windows of all time, probably because it only had a very narrow window between 98 SE and XP. I started using it from RTM and didn't switch to XP until XP got its launch troubles sorted out. It was an amazing OS. As solid as NT, and surprisingly few troubles with games. I only had to do workarounds for a couple titles IIRC.

I have to agree NKD, I ran 2000 for a year or so some years back and it was solid as hell.
 
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84. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 21:12 Overon
 
I'm interested to know what evidence and logic Gabe can offer for his statements about Windows 8.  
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83. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:56 Mad Max RW
 
Let's all go back to DOS.  
Avatar 15920
 
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82. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:51 NKD
 
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 20:29:
The biggest thing Windows 8 has working against it in my views is how awesome Windows 7 is. I never even considered Vista for the same reason - I saw no reason to upgrade from XP, which was fabulous (and still is - 3 of my machines still run it and they just purr along without a hitch). Their business model may now rely on frequent OS releases, but I think that really works against them.

Frequent releases can work out in their favor, provided they do it right. People hate change. Any change, for better or worse, requires people to adapt to it. This is especially true of interface changes as it effectively slows you down.

The more incrementally you make that change, the more accepting people will be of it. After Windows 8, Microsoft needs to do a new version every two years with mostly incremental improvements and a cheap upgrade cost. It'll cut down on piracy and ease upgrade shock.

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 20:48:
Probably the best since Win2000.

Win2k is the most under-appreciated Windows of all time, probably because it only had a very narrow window between 98 SE and XP. I started using it from RTM and didn't switch to XP until XP got its launch troubles sorted out. It was an amazing OS. As solid as NT, and surprisingly few troubles with games. I only had to do workarounds for a couple titles IIRC.
 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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81. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:48 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:46:
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.
Further proof that WinME users had their brains dipped in chocolate.

But Win7? Yeah, great OS. Probably the best since Win2000. I'm still running my original install from release, and it's been through a full mobo, cpu, gpu upgrade as well.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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80. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:46 Lorcin
 
Running linux on a pc is much akin to my mobile phone. My phone runs a custom firmware hack to get the android 2.3 OS running on a handset that Sony Ericsson have never updated beyond android 2.1.

The problem is although I researched and worked out exactly what I needed to do for a weekend to take it from stock to custom OS, now 3 months later apparently updates are available for it. But I can't for the life of me remember which hoops and loops I need to jump through to get the updates installed - and frankly I can't be bothered to relearn.

Until linux offers SIGNIFICANTLY improved performance vs windows ?? then I'm afraid I'll end up sticking to windows because it's easy to learn and helpfull (yeah mainly overly helpful but meh)
 
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79. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:37 RollinThundr
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:56:
I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

Win 98SE fo life!
It was the BEST fully updated.
Totally open, solid, etc.
If you had a problem, could easily fix it without the hassle. I really miss it, and hung onto it as long as I am hanging onto XP....

7 is far more stable than XP or 98 hands down. I've been running 7 since day 1 with zero issue and very few needs to ever reboot the box except for updates or driver installs.
 
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78. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:36 wtf_man
 
One of the few times that I actually agree with Valve's mouthpiece Hamburglar.

Now, they need to STFU and produce HL ep3 or HL3.
 
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77. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:33 gradbot
 
noman wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:56:
Gabe Newell's dislike of Windows Marketplace (App Store) must have played some part in this statement.
QED
 
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76. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:29 Prez
 
The biggest thing Windows 8 has working against it in my views is how awesome Windows 7 is. I never even considered Vista for the same reason - I saw no reason to upgrade from XP, which was fabulous (and still is - 3 of my machines still run it and they just purr along without a hitch). Their business model may now rely on frequent OS releases, but I think that really works against them.  
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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75. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:22 noman
 
Win7 is good, XP is great. Learn to comprehend more and troll less.

Windows 7 is far far better than WinXP. There's absolutely no comparison. Even Vista x64, six months after release with stable video drivers, was much better.
 
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74. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:04 Muscular Beaver
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:58:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:56:
I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

Win 98SE fo life!
It was the BEST fully updated.
Totally open, solid, etc.
If you had a problem, could easily fix it without the hassle. I really miss it, and hung onto it as long as I am hanging onto XP....

Except for how it slowed down over time, ultimately losing minutes per hour when I left it on 5+ days at a time. Man, that would drive me nuts.
Yeah, besides ME and 95 no OS drove me mad more. Thankfully I adapted to Win2000 pretty quick. That thing was solid par excellence. I didnt even care that at the start many programs didnt work with it. It was such a relief from all the 9x versions.
 
Avatar 12928
 
Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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73. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:03 Axis
 
Mordecai Walfish wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:38:
rkone wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:14:
Also - of course he's going to say it's a catastrophe, it's competition! It's not like he's going to tell everyone to stop bothering with steam now...

Competition? Valve isn't in the O/S business...

You really think this is where it's headed?

Axis wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:10:
I got news for you, even though most don't want to hear it and will fanboy flame to high heaven...

The last "Great" OS from Microsoft was and still is XP.

Here we are talking about modern O/S, and you are still pining for the "Glory Days of Windows XP".. lol. Learn to use something new. I don't care about whether you think you need it or not, it is quite a known fact in 2012 that Windows 7 is better than XP, and has gained it's place as a proper successor to it, which Vista never was... AND it even runs faster/more stable on old "XP Machines" in many cases.

Unless you cant find the drivers for your old sound blaster or printer it's a pretty easy and painless upgrade too. My 88yr old grandmother who used XP for 10+ years even adapted to it, in a matter or days.

Something tells me getting her to switch to "Steaminux" will be a bit more difficult =P

It's funny that before you even have a conversation about your preference of an old O/S you already identify anyone who has a different opinion as being a "fanboy", which makes you sound more like the "XP fanboy" here.

I believe the rest of us just prefer what works best for what we want to do.. and currently, that is *NOT* xp. XP was great at a time, but there are better O/S available for a while now.

Win7 is good, XP is great. Learn to comprehend more and troll less.
 
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Yours truly,

Axis
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72. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:03 noman
 
Also compatibility wise, I haven't run into any problems. I liked how my printer on the WiFi network was detected correctly during OS install, and was functioning after first boot. On Windows 7, I have had bunch of problems, getting the printer work correctly on WiFi, if I choose to restart windows. Win8 doesn't show this problem. The video drivers that come with the release preview were good enough to launch most games, though I did have texture corruption in Dirt2 (in DX11 mode) until I got the latest Catalyst drivers. Creative Labs audio driver works fine for most part.

Win8 also changes how your system shuts down or restarts. By default, the OS puts the system into a sort of hibernation, so the subsequent startup can be quick, and it indeed is. However I think, the "Restart" doesn't exit the OS gracefully, and my PC gets stuck at the subsequent BIOS screen. If I turn off this optimization then the restart works fine. Hopefully this issue gets resolved by RTM. I don't think many folks are running into this though.
 
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71. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 20:00 HorrorScope
 
Icewind wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:53:
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:46:
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.

Windows is a dinosaur that needs to be put to rest, for just the lackluster backwards compatibility alone.

It would be nice to no longer have to dual a Linux/Windows dual boot and instead just use Linux for my gaming. I hope to see such a day come to pass, even if it is 50 years from now.


Even with my defense, I would like to see Windows retired. I am not a fan on how it hides and embeds,but that is all a part of the DRM plan.Or has unlimited holes in security for an eternity. I like how no one questions that every month from now until forever they will find and patch a new hole. Why not be a huggy bear and start at the end and patch them all? How can this be considered security? It's virtual duct-tape and needs to be pointed out as such. And banks use this shit.
 
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70. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:58 Beamer
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:56:
I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

Win 98SE fo life!
It was the BEST fully updated.
Totally open, solid, etc.
If you had a problem, could easily fix it without the hassle. I really miss it, and hung onto it as long as I am hanging onto XP....

Except for how it slowed down over time, ultimately losing minutes per hour when I left it on 5+ days at a time. Man, that would drive me nuts.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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69. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:56 xXBatmanXx
 
I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

Win 98SE fo life!
It was the BEST fully updated.
Totally open, solid, etc.
If you had a problem, could easily fix it without the hassle. I really miss it, and hung onto it as long as I am hanging onto XP....
 
Avatar 10714
 
Buy from GreenManGaming? Use this, we both get $2.00 - http://www.greenmangaming.com/?gmgr=purutuwi
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68. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:56 noman
 
Windows 8 is a decent OS, and the $40 Win8 Pro upgrade part makes, getting the OS an obvious choice for me. I can go from Windows 7 Home Premium to Win8 Pro, on my gaming HTPC, and get few very useful features (primarily Remote Desktop, among others)

I'd even upgrade my Win7 Ultimate machine to go to Win8.

Start menu has always been at best useless. So the new metro based start screen can't be worse, and it isn't based on my experience. I have been using Win8 release preview for past few weeks (hard disk with Win7 died, and I didn't bother reinstalling) and it's overall much better. The new file-copy dialog box is great. I can access ISO file contents directly (or mount them). USB3 is natively supported. Desktop GUI runs much better, and I am not entirely sure why (could be the new WDDM1.2, or placebo :)...) Even the new Explorer ribbon bar is useful, and I expected it to be complete waste of GUI space. The new task manager is simply amazing. Virtual machine hyper-visor that used to be only on server edition of windows, is now included. Metro apps and the app-store show lot of promise. Multi-screen handling is the best that has ever been in a Windows OS.

The things I don't like; a) While metro apps work great with mouse and keyboard, you can tell they were designed from touch-based perspective. So there's no visual feedback when you hover a mouse, and the right click context menus are completely absent. Usually after right click, you have to travel some ways on the monitor to make the selection, drag and drop is also very much de-emphasized b) the power-down option is unnecessarily hidden behind couple of mouse clicks, c) ClearType (and the new DirectWrite) is somewhat inconsistently applied across the entire OS, and even turning off the feature in control panel or tweaking the setting doesn't take effect properly.

Overall though, my experiences have been hugely positive, and I see how the new start screen can be useful. The metro interface is something you can completely ignore, if you want, but I do find some of the metro apps useful (or entertaining). Mouse/keyboard work fine, and so does an MCE remote control.

Gabe Newell's dislike of Windows Marketplace (App Store) must have played some part in this statement.
 
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67. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:55 HorrorScope
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:39:
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:32:
HorrorScope wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:40:
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:30:
Eh, all I know is that MS seems locked in to the 1 bad OS release followed by 1 good OS release cycle.

By that logic:

98 - Good
ME - OH God, is there a word that describes how bad that was?
XP - Good
Vista - WTF? NO!
7 - Good
8- Going to be bad? Most freakin' likely.

(No, I'm not counting the Enterprise centered NT OSs before they merged with consumer level.)

Personally I think a lot of users are drama queens. The one's that you list as omg bad, really weren't that bad vs the previous generation. ME vs 98, pretty much near the same damn thing. Vista got bad mouthed because driver compatibilty issues, if those weren't there it was better then XP in general or very close to not matter.

I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

As true generational jumps and the others stepping stones more then god awful attempts vs the predecessor. As for 8, this is a MS strategy to get into the phone and pad market that they completely blown, like the CEO should have been fired blown. If you don't pay them for getting these big moves right, why even pay them?

You weren't around for Windows ME, were you? Either that, or you don't remember just how bad it really was. Vista? It wasn't ME bad, but they broke shit that worked just fine on XP and it took them a year to fix most of it. (And some of it they never fixed at all.)

I worked in IT. You can "drama queen" me all you want, but I'll "ignorant bitch" you back.

PS, admin 20 systems? What kind of for shit user sample is that? 20 systems out of how many ME installs? I had hundreds of customers with ME issues, and you can easily find thousands upon thousands of horror stories online.

I am just happy that my day job used NT 4.0.

I did like Nt 4 better, who said overlooking 20 systems was even a paying job? That is family and friends and ok a few at work at the time. Stuff was mixed and matched based on budget. But what is a sample of one unit vs 20? Just sayin.

I'm just saying I was somehow able to tame the mighty ME and it ran really the same as 95 and 98. If others couldn't ok, fine, oh well. Just like I was able to tame the dastardly Vista.

I never really really struggled with an OS I suppose. Obviously they were able to get it running well at the MS factory, I was able to somewhat replicate what they were seeing.
 
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66. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:53 eunichron
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:50:
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:46:
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.

Hell's Hockey team just won the Cup.

Nah, the Devils haven't won a cup since 2003.
 
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165 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 5.
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