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Quoteworthy - "Windows 8 is a Catastrophe" - Gabe Newell

"The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior," says Valve's Gabe Newell as quoted on AllThingsD. "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality." Thanks VG247.

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165 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 7.
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45. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:18 xXBatmanXx
 
DangerDog wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:03:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:52:
DukeFNukem wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:12:
I'll take Windows XP over Windows 8 any day of the week. But I would take Windows 7 over XP which is what I am doing now.

Yea, I am using Win7 with the script that does an xp overlay - makes it tolerable. My gaming rig is still xp.

An xp overlay? Can't imagine what that would be, hopefully not something to make the interface look like XP out of the box, always thought someone at Playskool came up with that color scheme.

Content staying with Windows 7, maybe by Windows 9 they'll grow a few brain cells and allow for full desktop functionality to return and not make it a metro app that you run. Right now MS seems hell bent on killing the desktop though.

Replaces the menu system and look of file windows, etc. It makes it as simple and clean as possible. Actually, I have used the "Rainy Day" theme since it came out years ago for win95/win98.

I also (on a fresh install) go into folder options and set everything to open in 1 window, disable links, show file extensions for known file types, alpha order, etc etc etc.

I like a clean looking OS. Not a bloated one. I have only a few things on the desktop, I have a folder for games and a folder for programs. Links go in those folders. I clean the rest of the garbage off as it is not needed. A cluttered desktop is a cluttered workspace.
 
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44. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:18 Prez
 
Just because you lack the skill to set up a stable system does not mean ME stability was a global issue.

SWING! and a miss.


My personal experience with ME..

Oh the delicious irony.

This comment was edited on Jul 25, 2012, 19:32.
 
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43. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:16 Muscular Beaver
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:13:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:47:
I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

Just because you lack the skill to set up a stable system does not mean ME stability was a global issue.
My personal experience with ME was nearly flawless. I remember System Restore eating up resources like a starved piranha with a bleeding pig nearby but once that was turned off ME was a pleasure to play and work with.
I had much less BSODs with ME than with 95A/B/98/98SE.
Another neat improvement of ME (thanks to some of Win2K's kernel getting ported over and less 16-bit legacy crap than in Win 9x) was that you didn't have to reboot at least once every few hours to have a stable system.
Win 98 was horrible in that regard. If you multitasked just a little then it was only a matter of when the system would crash and not if. Memory management was abysmal. If you were a "power user" then it was also guaranteed that you had to reinstall Win 98 at least once a year or so due to the registry becoming wonky beyond a certain age or usage.
Win ME on the other hand was the first consumer Windows OS that at least somewhat resembled the reliability, stability and up-time that was normally to be found in enterprise environments at that time.

Needless to say that XP was another major improvement over the Win 9x era but I fully agree with that other dude in that ME is getting tons of undeserved bashing (and I'd bet real money that the most vocal negativity is coming from people who have never even had ME installed).

*cough*
When ME was released I had to install it on many PC. I did support back then too. Driving to customers. ME was pure hell. Installing it and having it run in the first place was almost impossible, but then providing support for it... lol...
It was HELL. Pure hell and we quickly abandoned it and went back to 98SE, which was rock stable compared to ME.
 
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42. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:13 CJ_Parker
 
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:47:
I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

Just because you lack the skill to set up a stable system does not mean ME stability was a global issue.
My personal experience with ME was nearly flawless. I remember System Restore eating up resources like a starved piranha with a bleeding pig nearby but once that was turned off ME was a pleasure to play and work with.
I had much less BSODs with ME than with 95A/B/98/98SE.
Another neat improvement of ME (thanks to some of Win2K's kernel getting ported over and less 16-bit legacy crap than in Win 9x) was that you didn't have to reboot at least once every few hours to have a stable system.
Win 98 was horrible in that regard. If you multitasked just a little then it was only a matter of when the system would crash and not if. Memory management was abysmal. If you were a "power user" then it was also guaranteed that you had to reinstall Win 98 at least once a year or so due to the registry becoming wonky beyond a certain age or usage.
Win ME on the other hand was the first consumer Windows OS that at least somewhat resembled the reliability, stability and up-time that was normally to be found in enterprise environments at that time.

Needless to say that XP was another major improvement over the Win 9x era but I fully agree with that other dude in that ME is getting tons of undeserved bashing (and I'd bet real money that the most vocal negativity is coming from people who have never even had ME installed).

 
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41. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:09 HorrorScope
 
Closed Betas wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:51:
I am still pissed at the money i spent on vista and windows 7, not doing it again.. for what?

Why would anyone care to waste money for windows 8? its simply too late

I don't understand the words too late. For some they may not want to move from 7 because it's so fast. For others on XP/Vista that is more of the question, do you go newest or more mainstream right now?
 
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40. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:09 ASeven
 
I'll take a risk and say that Win8 may be the least sold Windows OS version for desktop PCs ever. I can't see anyone who cares about their PCs getting Win8, it offers nothing compared to Win7, in fact it takes away stuff.  
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39. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:08 RollinThundr
 
Gabe's waistline is a catastrophe.  
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38. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:07 HorrorScope
 
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:47:
I could see some personal value if I could buy a game that is playable on my PC or my Xbox, but I'm not sure if that is the path this is going to go down. Most likely just XBL games will be playable on both platforms. Who knows though. It is essentially an attempt to make both platforms one.

I can't see that ever happening myself, at least not the way everyone would like it to. If it were true though... if I could actually shop in the XBOX 360 section for games to play on PC, that would be pretty neat.

ME vs 98, pretty much near the same damn thing.

I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

I did not. To me 95, 98 and ME were all very close. I was overlooking 20 systems'ish at the time. They were well better then 3.1 in a windows way. But rebooting was a daily thing for many. Blue screens to me were always a symptom of a bigger issue, not that related to the OS itself.

But sure face it, if you have a bad experience then that will skew your opinion, that is with anyone. I had ups and downs with all three of those O/S's. I felt OS2 was better then all 3, but the people voted with their wallets. I had ME systems that ran very solidly for several years and didn't feel that it was a tricky thing to do, so again, it's all personal experience.
 
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37. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:51 Closed Betas
 
Yeah you guys are taking it out of context, think what ipads/tablets would be without the games..... A coaster... Game support would bring more casuals to the os, whereas just geeks now use it..

Anyhoo, I don't agree with windows 8 destroying the pc market, for starters, its already destroyed... 2ndly, i dont know ANYBODY who carees to invest in windows 8> I am still pissed at the money i spent on vista and windows 7, not doing it again.. for what?

Why would anyone care to waste money for windows 8? its simply too late
 
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36. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:47 Prez
 
I could see some personal value if I could buy a game that is playable on my PC or my Xbox, but I'm not sure if that is the path this is going to go down. Most likely just XBL games will be playable on both platforms. Who knows though. It is essentially an attempt to make both platforms one.

I can't see that ever happening myself, at least not the way everyone would like it to. If it were true though... if I could actually shop in the XBOX 360 section for games to play on PC, that would be pretty neat.

ME vs 98, pretty much near the same damn thing.

I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

This comment was edited on Jul 25, 2012, 18:53.
 
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35. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:44 Tom
 
PropheT wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:36:
...You totally misunderstood what he said, or didn't think about it at all.

If people have a reason to go use Linux, like games, people (and companies) will be driven to develop for Linux and those problems will disappear with the attention needed to standardize the platform and stabilize the environment as an alternative to Windows.

I don't even know how you would interpret what he said as just being "if you could play games on it Linux would be the BESTEST"...

Oh, so without games, people and companies have no reason to develop for Linux? If only games were there, all those other problems would get fixed? Still sounds like I understood correctly. I just think it's a ridiculous assertion.
 
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34. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:40 HorrorScope
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:30:
Eh, all I know is that MS seems locked in to the 1 bad OS release followed by 1 good OS release cycle.

By that logic:

98 - Good
ME - OH God, is there a word that describes how bad that was?
XP - Good
Vista - WTF? NO!
7 - Good
8- Going to be bad? Most freakin' likely.

(No, I'm not counting the Enterprise centered NT OSs before they merged with consumer level.)

Personally I think a lot of users are drama queens. The one's that you list as omg bad, really weren't that bad vs the previous generation. ME vs 98, pretty much near the same damn thing. Vista got bad mouthed because driver compatibilty issues, if those weren't there it was better then XP in general or very close to not matter.

I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

As true generational jumps and the others stepping stones more then god awful attempts vs the predecessor. As for 8, this is a MS strategy to get into the phone and pad market that they completely blown, like the CEO should have been fired blown. If you don't pay them for getting these big moves right, why even pay them?
 
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33. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:37 HorrorScope
 
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:37:
I have been ignoring all the Windows 8 news because I simply don't care, but the whole "compete with Steam" thing kind of got my interest up a little. If someone could give me the quick and dirty: In what way is Windows 8 competition with Steam?

I think the best reason to ignore 8 is because many are satisfied with 7 and don't think we need an upgrade right now. For us imo that is 100% correct. However since MS mis-managed the business so badly, they do need something like 8 to put their whole plethora of devices on a single interface. I get their point, but I don't need that.
 
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32. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:36 PropheT
 
Tom wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:57:
"The big problem that is holding back Linux is games"

LOL! Yeah right. Ok, let's just pay no attention to the huge fundamental usability issues. Or the lack of non-game application support. Or the update/upgrade processes. Or dependency nightmares, having to compile stuff yourself, the ever so friendly support community, the battle of the righteous vs. closed-source, etc etc etc!

No, games are the big problem. If not for that, everyone would surely use Linux. Hahaha!

...You totally misunderstood what he said, or didn't think about it at all.

If people have a reason to go use Linux, like games, people (and companies) will be driven to develop for Linux and those problems will disappear with the attention needed to standardize the platform and stabilize the environment as an alternative to Windows.

I don't even know how you would interpret what he said as just being "if you could play games on it Linux would be the BESTEST"...
 
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31. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:32 SimplyMonk
 
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:42:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:37:
I have been ignoring all the Windows 8 news because I simply don't care, but the whole "compete with Steam" thing kind of got my interest up a little. If someone could give me the quick and dirty: In what way is Windows 8 competition with Steam?

Microsoft has cooked Xbox Live functionality into Windows 8 in the form of an app that tie video, music and game purchases together. Steam doesn't have much to fear, it's an improvement over GFWL but just barely and it won't appeal to anyone but casual gamers who are already married to the XBL platform.

I don't know how much merit there is to it, but in addition to this I heard that Microsoft is also intending to wire the Xbox Next and Windows 8 platforms the exact same so developers can just code for one environment and have it usable on both the PC and the Xbox. As it was explained to me, this was an attempt by MS to cut developer costs while at the same time expanding their platforms (to Microsoft Platforms).

I could see some personal value if I could buy a game that is playable on my PC or my Xbox, but I'm not sure if that is the path this is going to go down. Most likely just XBL games will be playable on both platforms. Who knows though. It is essentially an attempt to make both platforms one.
 
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30. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:30 Agent.X7
 
Eh, all I know is that MS seems locked in to the 1 bad OS release followed by 1 good OS release cycle.

By that logic:

98 - Good
ME - OH God, is there a word that describes how bad that was?
XP - Good
Vista - WTF? NO!
7 - Good
8- Going to be bad? Most freakin' likely.

(No, I'm not counting the Enterprise centered NT OSs before they merged with consumer level.)
 
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STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
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29. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:15 HorrorScope
 
MS wants to close everything back up, I think the PC is too far gone to have people rail-roaded like that, so I'm not going to fear that, yet.

As for Win7 and Win 8, other than Metro and current drivers, there seems to be some additional nice advances in Win 8 over Win 7.

Will there be a hack to get us back to a desktop? Will companies like Stardock be able to over-ride Metro and give us a more standard/mac type interface?

When the drivers mature and there is a way around Metro, I'm seeing a better OS. That said Win 7 is solid, if it were released when XP was and there were better virus updates back then, MS would have been in a superior position today. They lost a lot of people to Apple.
 
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28. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:04 Devinoch
 
Tom wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:57:
"The big problem that is holding back Linux is games"

LOL! Yeah right. Ok, let's just pay no attention to the huge fundamental usability issues. Or the lack of non-game application support. Or the update/upgrade processes. Or dependency nightmares, having to compile stuff yourself, the ever so friendly support community, the battle of the righteous vs. closed-source, etc etc etc!

No, games are the big problem. If not for that, everyone would surely use Linux. Hahaha!

Oh good, it's not just me.

Linux, to me, has always been a non-starter. And while games are a part of it, they aren't the majority of it.
 
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27. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 18:03 DangerDog
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:52:
DukeFNukem wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:12:
I'll take Windows XP over Windows 8 any day of the week. But I would take Windows 7 over XP which is what I am doing now.

Yea, I am using Win7 with the script that does an xp overlay - makes it tolerable. My gaming rig is still xp.

An xp overlay? Can't imagine what that would be, hopefully not something to make the interface look like XP out of the box, always thought someone at Playskool came up with that color scheme.

Content staying with Windows 7, maybe by Windows 9 they'll grow a few brain cells and allow for full desktop functionality to return and not make it a metro app that you run. Right now MS seems hell bent on killing the desktop though.
 
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26. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 17:57 Prez
 
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:42:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 17:37:
I have been ignoring all the Windows 8 news because I simply don't care, but the whole "compete with Steam" thing kind of got my interest up a little. If someone could give me the quick and dirty: In what way is Windows 8 competition with Steam?

Microsoft has cooked Xbox Live functionality into Windows 8 in the form of an app that tie video, music and game purchases together. Steam doesn't have much to fear, it's an improvement over GFWL but just barely and it won't appeal to anyone but casual gamers who are already married to the XBL platform.

Thanks.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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165 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 7.
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