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Quoteworthy - "Windows 8 is a Catastrophe" - Gabe Newell

"The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People donít realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior," says Valve's Gabe Newell as quoted on AllThingsD. "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. Itís a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think weíll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If thatís true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality." Thanks VG247.

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165 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 6.
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65. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:53 Icewind
 
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:46:
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.

You haven't been here long enough then. I've been here since the forced registration was enacted and I've seen these guys defend some truly abysmal things.

Like Jade Empire, Timeshift, GFWL, DLC, and even Starforce if you can believe it.

Windows is a dinosaur that needs to be put to rest, for just the lackluster backwards compatibility alone.

It would be nice to no longer have to dual a Linux/Windows dual boot and instead just use Linux for my gaming. I hope to see such a day come to pass, even if it is 50 years from now.

 
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64. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:50 SimplyMonk
 
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:46:
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.

Hell's Hockey team just won the Cup.
 
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63. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:49 Muscular Beaver
 
dj LiTh wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:48:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:39:
dj LiTh wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:38:
Windows 7 = Desktop / Laptop
Windows 8 = Touchscreen / tablets

I really dont understand the hate that windows 8 gets when its being built with touch screens in mind. Atleast ms is makin its own OS for tablets and touchscreens rather than doing the lazy apple way and just porting a phone os to a tablet. I know when my laptop finally dies (5 years on, 2 hdd's later and just put a ssd in it it just wont die) i'll be wanting a win8 tablet

As for my desktop that will of course be staying win7

Because it doesnt even support all touch screen devices. My Car PC cant benefit from it, because metro needs a minimum of 1024x768.
Its a joke even for what its supposed to be (even though its not).

A joke would be iOS, and 1024x768 isnt exactly an extreme resolution requirement

For many touchscreen devices it is. And Win8 is "supposed" to be for those.
 
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Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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62. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:48 Jivaro
 
Dades wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:46:
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.

IKR. Never thought I would see that either.
 
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61. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:48 dj LiTh
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:39:
dj LiTh wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:38:
Windows 7 = Desktop / Laptop
Windows 8 = Touchscreen / tablets

I really dont understand the hate that windows 8 gets when its being built with touch screens in mind. Atleast ms is makin its own OS for tablets and touchscreens rather than doing the lazy apple way and just porting a phone os to a tablet. I know when my laptop finally dies (5 years on, 2 hdd's later and just put a ssd in it it just wont die) i'll be wanting a win8 tablet

As for my desktop that will of course be staying win7

Because it doesnt even support all touch screen devices. My Car PC cant benefit from it, because metro needs a minimum of 1024x768.
Its a joke even for what its supposed to be (even though its not).

A joke would be iOS, and 1024x768 isnt exactly an extreme resolution requirement
 
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60. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:46 Dades
 
People defending Windows ME, I've truly seen everything now.  
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59. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:44 Jivaro
 
Please. It isn't even a debate, and calling someone a troll for reciting their actual experience is just stupid.

Gateway, Dell, HP...all of the major manufacturers either partially or completely switched back to Win98SE as their "default" consumer OS mere months after ME was released. They did that for a very real reason...consumers couldn't keep the OS working well, even on brand new machines. Gateway did it within 3 months. Tech support couldn't keep up with the complaints and it was costing the manufacturers a shit ton of money. The first few months before the switch back the retail stores were taking brand new machines back from new customers and switching the OS to 98SE.

It is all fine and dandy that a few people remember it well, but pretending like that OS wasn't the catastrophe that it was is just idiotic. If you have to be some kind of IT guru to operate an OS targeted at the mainstream, it is a failure.
 
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58. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:44 Rea1One
 
For those who missed it

Hardware accelerating everything: Windows 8 graphics

looking forward to Win8 retail this October 26.
 
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57. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:39 Muscular Beaver
 
dj LiTh wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:38:
Windows 7 = Desktop / Laptop
Windows 8 = Touchscreen / tablets

I really dont understand the hate that windows 8 gets when its being built with touch screens in mind. Atleast ms is makin its own OS for tablets and touchscreens rather than doing the lazy apple way and just porting a phone os to a tablet. I know when my laptop finally dies (5 years on, 2 hdd's later and just put a ssd in it it just wont die) i'll be wanting a win8 tablet

As for my desktop that will of course be staying win7

Because it doesnt even support all touch screen devices. My Car PC cant benefit from it, because metro needs a minimum of 1024x768.
Its a joke even for what its supposed to be (even though its not).
 
Avatar 12928
 
Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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56. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:39 Agent.X7
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:32:
HorrorScope wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:40:
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:30:
Eh, all I know is that MS seems locked in to the 1 bad OS release followed by 1 good OS release cycle.

By that logic:

98 - Good
ME - OH God, is there a word that describes how bad that was?
XP - Good
Vista - WTF? NO!
7 - Good
8- Going to be bad? Most freakin' likely.

(No, I'm not counting the Enterprise centered NT OSs before they merged with consumer level.)

Personally I think a lot of users are drama queens. The one's that you list as omg bad, really weren't that bad vs the previous generation. ME vs 98, pretty much near the same damn thing. Vista got bad mouthed because driver compatibilty issues, if those weren't there it was better then XP in general or very close to not matter.

I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

As true generational jumps and the others stepping stones more then god awful attempts vs the predecessor. As for 8, this is a MS strategy to get into the phone and pad market that they completely blown, like the CEO should have been fired blown. If you don't pay them for getting these big moves right, why even pay them?

You weren't around for Windows ME, were you? Either that, or you don't remember just how bad it really was. Vista? It wasn't ME bad, but they broke shit that worked just fine on XP and it took them a year to fix most of it. (And some of it they never fixed at all.)

I worked in IT. You can "drama queen" me all you want, but I'll "ignorant bitch" you back.

PS, admin 20 systems? What kind of for shit user sample is that? 20 systems out of how many ME installs? I had hundreds of customers with ME issues, and you can easily find thousands upon thousands of horror stories online.

I am just happy that my day job used NT 4.0.
 
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Origin - JStarX7
STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
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55. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:39 Prez
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:25:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:16:
...

*cough*
Well, there's system admins with skill like that horror guy and then there's Beavers and Prezels...


I know I am going to regret attempting logic with you, but let 's say for argument's sake that you're right and not being an admin with the requisite technical skills is the cause of my issues with ME. Is that the mark of a good OS intended for mass market consumption - you have to be a tech savvy admin or the like to get it working stable? Patently ridiculous. I was able to run 98 SE without many issues, did a clean install of ME on four separate occasions, had issues upon issues with it, went back to 98 each time and had no issues (at least by comparison to the train wreck that was ME). Maybe that makes me less tech savvy than you but it does not make ME a good OS.

Vista on the other hand was indeed largely a victim of a bad first impression with the early unoptimized (or non-existent) drivers. Currently Vista is rock solid and zippy. ME is not in the same category by any stretch.
 
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ďThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.Ē
- Mahatma Gandhi
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54. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:38 dj LiTh
 
Windows 7 = Desktop / Laptop
Windows 8 = Touchscreen / tablets

I really dont understand the hate that windows 8 gets when its being built with touch screens in mind. Atleast ms is makin its own OS for tablets and touchscreens rather than doing the lazy apple way and just porting a phone os to a tablet. I know when my laptop finally dies (5 years on, 2 hdd's later and just put a ssd in it it just wont die) i'll be wanting a win8 tablet

As for my desktop that will of course be staying win7
 
Avatar 46370
 
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53. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:35 Muscular Beaver
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:28:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:16:
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:13:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:47:
I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

Just because you lack the skill to set up a stable system does not mean ME stability was a global issue.
My personal experience with ME was nearly flawless. I remember System Restore eating up resources like a starved piranha with a bleeding pig nearby but once that was turned off ME was a pleasure to play and work with.
I had much less BSODs with ME than with 95A/B/98/98SE.
Another neat improvement of ME (thanks to some of Win2K's kernel getting ported over and less 16-bit legacy crap than in Win 9x) was that you didn't have to reboot at least once every few hours to have a stable system.
Win 98 was horrible in that regard. If you multitasked just a little then it was only a matter of when the system would crash and not if. Memory management was abysmal. If you were a "power user" then it was also guaranteed that you had to reinstall Win 98 at least once a year or so due to the registry becoming wonky beyond a certain age or usage.
Win ME on the other hand was the first consumer Windows OS that at least somewhat resembled the reliability, stability and up-time that was normally to be found in enterprise environments at that time.

Needless to say that XP was another major improvement over the Win 9x era but I fully agree with that other dude in that ME is getting tons of undeserved bashing (and I'd bet real money that the most vocal negativity is coming from people who have never even had ME installed).

*cough*
When ME was released I had to install it on many PC. I did support back then too. Driving to customers. ME was pure hell. Installing it and having it run in the first place was almost impossible, but then providing support for it... lol...
It was HELL. Pure hell and we quickly abandoned it and went back to 98SE, which was rock stable compared to ME.

I had success for both, how can one explain it?
Nope I cant, because trying to explain facts to one troll is hard enough.
 
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Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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52. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:33 Muscular Beaver
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:25:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:16:
...

*cough*
Well, there's system admins with skill like that horror guy and then there's Beavers and Prezels...

Yep, I bet thats easy to say for someone who thinks ME was more stable than 98SE... lol...
Too bad I was one of half a dozen in the same company and everyone else had exactly the same experiences, not counting in the external ones that looked like they would explode when they learned that their boss wants to "upgrade" to ME, because they had that experience at home already.

Sorry, troll, but its a fact that ME was a total disaster. Yeah, sometimes it ran well, but not for long.
 
Avatar 12928
 
Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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51. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:32 Agent.X7
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:40:
Agent.X7 wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:30:
Eh, all I know is that MS seems locked in to the 1 bad OS release followed by 1 good OS release cycle.

By that logic:

98 - Good
ME - OH God, is there a word that describes how bad that was?
XP - Good
Vista - WTF? NO!
7 - Good
8- Going to be bad? Most freakin' likely.

(No, I'm not counting the Enterprise centered NT OSs before they merged with consumer level.)

Personally I think a lot of users are drama queens. The one's that you list as omg bad, really weren't that bad vs the previous generation. ME vs 98, pretty much near the same damn thing. Vista got bad mouthed because driver compatibilty issues, if those weren't there it was better then XP in general or very close to not matter.

I see it more like:
95 (face it 98 and me were small additions to 95)
XP
Win7

As true generational jumps and the others stepping stones more then god awful attempts vs the predecessor. As for 8, this is a MS strategy to get into the phone and pad market that they completely blown, like the CEO should have been fired blown. If you don't pay them for getting these big moves right, why even pay them?

You weren't around for Windows ME, were you? Either that, or you don't remember just how bad it really was. Vista? It wasn't ME bad, but they broke shit that worked just fine on XP and it took them a year to fix most of it. (And some of it they never fixed at all.)

I worked in IT. You can "drama queen" me all you want, but I'll "ignorant bitch" you back.
 
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STEAM - Agent.X7
PSN - JStar_X7
Xbox Live - Agent X7
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50. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:30 HorrorScope
 
NKD wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:22:
Not sure what GayBen is on about here. Windows 8 has that goofy Metro thing which I despise, but it doesn't have the myriad technical and performance issues that ME or Vista had at launch. At worst, people will just pass it over for not being a big enough upgrade and that'll be that.

No one is gonna fucking switch to Linux of all things. I never pegged Newell as being that retarded, but I guess I was wrong.

I agree the timing is too soon. But I've been getting enough reports with yet once again compatibility/driver issues with 8. Enough to give it a bad name when release? We shall see.
 
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49. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:28 HorrorScope
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:16:
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:13:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:47:
I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

Just because you lack the skill to set up a stable system does not mean ME stability was a global issue.
My personal experience with ME was nearly flawless. I remember System Restore eating up resources like a starved piranha with a bleeding pig nearby but once that was turned off ME was a pleasure to play and work with.
I had much less BSODs with ME than with 95A/B/98/98SE.
Another neat improvement of ME (thanks to some of Win2K's kernel getting ported over and less 16-bit legacy crap than in Win 9x) was that you didn't have to reboot at least once every few hours to have a stable system.
Win 98 was horrible in that regard. If you multitasked just a little then it was only a matter of when the system would crash and not if. Memory management was abysmal. If you were a "power user" then it was also guaranteed that you had to reinstall Win 98 at least once a year or so due to the registry becoming wonky beyond a certain age or usage.
Win ME on the other hand was the first consumer Windows OS that at least somewhat resembled the reliability, stability and up-time that was normally to be found in enterprise environments at that time.

Needless to say that XP was another major improvement over the Win 9x era but I fully agree with that other dude in that ME is getting tons of undeserved bashing (and I'd bet real money that the most vocal negativity is coming from people who have never even had ME installed).

*cough*
When ME was released I had to install it on many PC. I did support back then too. Driving to customers. ME was pure hell. Installing it and having it run in the first place was almost impossible, but then providing support for it... lol...
It was HELL. Pure hell and we quickly abandoned it and went back to 98SE, which was rock stable compared to ME.

I had success for both, how can one explain it?
 
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48. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:27 HorrorScope
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:13:
Prez wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 18:47:
I'm sorry but that is just not true. I got more blue screens in any week I ran Windows ME than I did in a year of using Win 98. ME was terrible compared to Win98; I don't even see how that's arguable.

Just because you lack the skill to set up a stable system does not mean ME stability was a global issue.
My personal experience with ME was nearly flawless. I remember System Restore eating up resources like a starved piranha with a bleeding pig nearby but once that was turned off ME was a pleasure to play and work with.
I had much less BSODs with ME than with 95A/B/98/98SE.
Another neat improvement of ME (thanks to some of Win2K's kernel getting ported over and less 16-bit legacy crap than in Win 9x) was that you didn't have to reboot at least once every few hours to have a stable system.
Win 98 was horrible in that regard. If you multitasked just a little then it was only a matter of when the system would crash and not if. Memory management was abysmal. If you were a "power user" then it was also guaranteed that you had to reinstall Win 98 at least once a year or so due to the registry becoming wonky beyond a certain age or usage.
Win ME on the other hand was the first consumer Windows OS that at least somewhat resembled the reliability, stability and up-time that was normally to be found in enterprise environments at that time.

Needless to say that XP was another major improvement over the Win 9x era but I fully agree with that other dude in that ME is getting tons of undeserved bashing (and I'd bet real money that the most vocal negativity is coming from people who have never even had ME installed).


I agree with that you say. Sort of like in Vista it was the first to have UAC. Yes that was devil spawn, but we figured out where to go, shut that shit off and relax. We all knew immediately to go do that in Win 7, but Vista was the first and it was baptized for it. 7 had the same issue, but was well understood by then...

I have a new main system coming in a week, my main right now is on Vista 32. I've had times where it was one 24/7 for many months on end, only rebooting due to program needing an O/S restart to end the streak. Vista supposedly sucks big time, but I've managed, I also upgraded to Vista a couple years after the first release.

I do look forward to breaking the ram barrier with Win 7 64 on my main. That said all the other 4 units I have (non-main) are all now Win 7 64. There isn't a upgrade path for Vista 32 to Win 7 64, so I stayed frozen in time for a while.
 
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47. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:25 CJ_Parker
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 25, 2012, 19:16:
...

*cough*
Well, there's system admins with skill like that horror guy and then there's Beavers and Prezels...

 
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46. Re: Quoteworthy - Jul 25, 2012, 19:22 NKD
 
Not sure what GayBen is on about here. Windows 8 has that goofy Metro thing which I despise, but it doesn't have the myriad technical and performance issues that ME or Vista had at launch. At worst, people will just pass it over for not being a big enough upgrade and that'll be that.

No one is gonna fucking switch to Linux of all things. I never pegged Newell as being that retarded, but I guess I was wrong.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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165 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 6.
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