jdreyer wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 22:44:

RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:35:

Sepharo wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:18:

RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
Do a search for politifact gm bail out.

Are you fucking kidding me

Read my post.

You're missing my point, had they restructured without Government bailing their asses out, the tax payers wouldn't be on the hook for billions that will never be paid back.

They would have been fine, and really it's their own fault for continuing to think they could rely on huge gas guzzlers while Japanese car makers like Toyota were making fuel efficient models.

Like I keep saying, taxes aren't the issue, spending is. If China tomorrow said, pay us all the loans we've given you tomorrow we'd be fucked. And here you have Obama wanting to raise the debt ceiling again, our credit rating gets lowered for the first time in history, he adds 5 trillion to the debt, and that wasn't enough, he wants to do it again.

You honestly don't see a problem with that? Both parties are driving us off the cliff with spending, dems have the pedal to the floor.

Dude. I'm sorry, but you're totally clueless.

1. There was no one else to bail out GM or Chrysler. The gov't was lender of last resort. If no one had done it, GM and Chrysler would have been liquidated and Ford would be the only US car maker left. Bankruptcy is death for an automaker, b/c no one will buy their products. It's estimated that a half million jobs would have been forever lost and that would rain suffering on millions of people.

2. Almost every government bailed out at least part of its auto industry. France bailed out Peugeot and Renault. Japan bailed Toyota (Yes, even Toyota). Sweden bailed out Volvo and Saab. The UK bailed out Jaguar. Germany bailed out Opel. The point is this was a once in a lifetime world-wide event. This is the exact reason government exists, for these types of catastrophic emergencies. Yes, GM made some bad decisions, but not unrecoverable ones, nor ones that would have sunk them in a normal economy. This is how it's supposed to work.

3. The billions are being paid back and will be. With interest. The government makes money.

4. China would never do that, because sinking our economy would sink their economy. Besides, China owns only 8% of US public debt. If for some stupid reason they called it in, we could handle it.

5. Debt as a % of GDP is still lower than it was in the 1940s. It does need to be addressed, but it's more important now to GET THE ECONOMY GOING AGAIN. And you need to spend to do that. And when no one else is spending, the government has to be the spender of last resort. It's classic Keynesian economics. Spending recovers the economy, and you pay it back when the econ is strong. Austerity begets recession.

Also, too: Let the goddamn Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2013.