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Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise

Former baseball star Curt Schilling was interviewed this morning on the Dennis & Callahan sports radio show on WEEI in Boston in the first such appearance since the demise of 38 Studios, the developer he founded. Boston.com quotes some of the conversation where Schilling spoke of investing all of his personal assets into the company while never a penny back out. He also says his former employees "have every right to be upset" as they were "blindsided" by the studio's closure after he promised a month or two of advance warning, admitting he "bombed on that one in epic fashion." He also describes the last ditch effort to save the company that failed because Rhode Island refused to go along with the plan, and addresses accusations that his acceptance of tax credits and loan guarantees from the state were hypocritical in light of his outspoken conservative viewpoints: "I don't know how that correlates to this. I don’t have any problem with government helping entrepreneurs and businesses." Thanks JJ.

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45. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 22:44 jdreyer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:35:
Sepharo wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:18:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
Do a search for politifact gm bail out.


Are you fucking kidding me Rotfl

Read my post.

You're missing my point, had they restructured without Government bailing their asses out, the tax payers wouldn't be on the hook for billions that will never be paid back.

They would have been fine, and really it's their own fault for continuing to think they could rely on huge gas guzzlers while Japanese car makers like Toyota were making fuel efficient models.

Like I keep saying, taxes aren't the issue, spending is. If China tomorrow said, pay us all the loans we've given you tomorrow we'd be fucked. And here you have Obama wanting to raise the debt ceiling again, our credit rating gets lowered for the first time in history, he adds 5 trillion to the debt, and that wasn't enough, he wants to do it again.

You honestly don't see a problem with that? Both parties are driving us off the cliff with spending, dems have the pedal to the floor.

Dude. I'm sorry, but you're totally clueless.

1. There was no one else to bail out GM or Chrysler. The gov't was lender of last resort. If no one had done it, GM and Chrysler would have been liquidated and Ford would be the only US car maker left. Bankruptcy is death for an automaker, b/c no one will buy their products. It's estimated that a half million jobs would have been forever lost and that would rain suffering on millions of people.

2. Almost every government bailed out at least part of its auto industry. France bailed out Peugeot and Renault. Japan bailed Toyota (Yes, even Toyota). Sweden bailed out Volvo and Saab. The UK bailed out Jaguar. Germany bailed out Opel. The point is this was a once in a lifetime world-wide event. This is the exact reason government exists, for these types of catastrophic emergencies. Yes, GM made some bad decisions, but not unrecoverable ones, nor ones that would have sunk them in a normal economy. This is how it's supposed to work.

3. The billions are being paid back and will be. With interest. The government makes money.

4. China would never do that, because sinking our economy would sink their economy. Besides, China owns only 8% of US public debt. If for some stupid reason they called it in, we could handle it.

5. Debt as a % of GDP is still lower than it was in the 1940s. It does need to be addressed, but it's more important now to GET THE ECONOMY GOING AGAIN. And you need to spend to do that. And when no one else is spending, the government has to be the spender of last resort. It's classic Keynesian economics. Spending recovers the economy, and you pay it back when the econ is strong. Austerity begets recession.

Also, too: Let the goddamn Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2013.
 
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44. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 22:15 RollinThundr
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:54:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
The problem is spending, regardless of who the president is, we spend far far more than what we take in. Here you have a president who added 5 trillion to our debt in less than one term. You're fine with that. Yet cried like little girls about Bush's spending. If you're going to bitch at least be consistent with it.

First, THIS GRAPH. Since Reagan, Republicans drive up the debt when they're in office. Dems stablize or reduce it. It's simple numbers.

Second, how much debt has Obama added? About a trillion: that's the total of ALL legislation Obama has signed. 4 trillion of that debt were things started under Bush that Obama is trying to bring to an end (wars in Afganistan & Iraq), or is continuing b/c we're in the Great Recession (Bush tax cuts).

Third, Obama has bent over backwards to appease Republicans and they obstruct at every turn. Obama offered 2 parts cuts to 1 part revenue increase as a deficit reducing measure, totally pissing off his base, and the Republicans still refused.

There is no compromise from them. There is no interest in governing or helping people. They are simply obsessed getting rid of the black, communist, Kenyan, America-hater in the Whitehouse and don't care who the hurt in the process.

When a president leaves office, there's this thing called inheritance. That you buy into the "Obama's a fiscal conservative" line of bullshit the left is trying to feed people it's you're own damn fault.

The man surrounded himself at Harvard with Marxist socialists. I guess that makes him a free market fiscal conservative though right? Obamacare anyone? Hello? You know that unconstitutional healthcare bill that only hard lefties and his base of "Obama's gunna pay my mortgage" types want?

USA Today is generally liberal leaning and even they don't buy into it. http://tinyurl.com/7u437fs
"The deficit was $5 trillion last year under those rules. The official number was $1.3 trillion. Liabilities for Social Security, Medicare and other retirement programs rose by $3.7 trillion in 2011, according to government actuaries, but the amount was not registered on the government's books." Hooray for fuzzy math.
oh and of course "Bush's fault"
 
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43. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 22:02 RollinThundr
 
Prez wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:55:
Bipartisan ranting aside, I have to say that being (mostly) fiscally conservative myself, I find Schilling's acceptance of public money to be at odds with his purported fiscal conservatism.

Most conservatives, believing that small business entrepreneurs are the backbone of capitalism, support government assistance of small business, generally in the form of small business tax breaks. These are people just like most everyone here who dream of starting their own business. Just as welfare - if used as intended as a short-term stopgap measure to get an underprivileged citizen or family back on their feet - is a good thing, "corporate welfare" as liberals seem to like calling it is a very good thing for aiding the little guy trying to start his or her own business in a tough economy. The key difference is that 38 Studios is (was) not a "small business" by any stretch of the imagination, and for them to receive taxpayer money was a travesty imo.

Honestly 38 from the start just seemed bound for failure. I agree though, a company that size doesn't fit my definition of small business owner.

The problem with the welfare system as is, is it's too easy to abuse, generally once someone gets on it, they seem to be able to stay on it indefinitely. Which I don't think was or should be the intended purpose. Problem is being personally responsible is no longer a value in this country, kids can fail and still get a passing grade, or get a trophy just for showing up, wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings or so the PC crowd will tell you. It would be too detrimental to poor billy or whatever.

When military vets end up homeless, but those who refuse to take any personal responsibility and better themselves still have a roof over their head thanks to how the welfare system currently is, I'd say there's a problem.
 
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42. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 21:56 RollinThundr
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:54:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
The problem is spending, regardless of who the president is, we spend far far more than what we take in. Here you have a president who added 5 trillion to our debt in less than one term. You're fine with that. Yet cried like little girls about Bush's spending. If you're going to bitch at least be consistent with it.

First, THIS GRAPH. Since Reagan, Republicans drive up the debt when they're in office. Dems stablize or reduce it. It's simple numbers.

Second, how much debt has Obama added? About a trillion: that's the total of ALL legislation Obama has signed. 4 trillion of that debt were things started under Bush that Obama is trying to bring to an end (wars in Afganistan & Iraq), or is continuing b/c we're in the Great Recession (Bush tax cuts).

Third, Obama has bent over backwards to appease Republicans and they obstruct at every turn. Obama offered 2 parts cuts to 1 part revenue increase as a deficit reducing measure, totally pissing off his base, and the Republicans still refused.

There is no compromise from them. There is no interest in governing or helping people. They are simply obsessed getting rid of the black, communist, Kenyan, America-hater in the Whitehouse and don't care who the hurt in the process.

Who was in control of congress when the spending was highest? I think you'd be surprised when most of the time, when the spending goes up, dems control congress. When it goes down republicans control congress.
 
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41. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 21:55 Prez
 
Bipartisan ranting aside (Jesus tap-dancing Christ can you guys spin the numbers and spew rhetoric) I have to say that being predominantly fiscally conservative myself, I find Schilling's acceptance of public money to be at odds with his purported fiscal conservatism.

Most conservatives, believing that small business entrepreneurs are the backbone of capitalism, support government assistance of small business, generally in the form of small business tax breaks. These are everyday people (not the "evil rich") just like most everyone here, only these people dream of starting their own business. Just as welfare - IF used as intended as a short-term stopgap measure to get an underprivileged citizen or family back on their feet - is a good thing, "corporate welfare" as liberals seem to like calling it is a very good thing for aiding the little guy trying to start his or her own business in a tough economy. The key difference is that 38 Studios is (was) not a "small business" by any stretch of the imagination, and for them to receive taxpayer money was a travesty imo.

This comment was edited on Jun 22, 2012, 22:00.
 
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40. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 21:54 jdreyer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
The problem is spending, regardless of who the president is, we spend far far more than what we take in. Here you have a president who added 5 trillion to our debt in less than one term. You're fine with that. Yet cried like little girls about Bush's spending. If you're going to bitch at least be consistent with it.

First, THIS GRAPH. Since Reagan, Republicans drive up the debt when they're in office. Dems stablize or reduce it. It's simple numbers.

Second, how much debt has Obama added? About a trillion: that's the total of ALL legislation Obama has signed. 4 trillion of that debt were things started under Bush that Obama is trying to bring to an end (wars in Afganistan & Iraq), or is continuing b/c we're in the Great Recession (Bush tax cuts).

Third, Obama has bent over backwards to appease Republicans and they obstruct at every turn. Obama offered 2 parts cuts to 1 part revenue increase as a deficit reducing measure, totally pissing off his base, and the Republicans still refused.

There is no compromise from them. There is no interest in governing or helping people. They are simply obsessed getting rid of the black, communist, Kenyan, America-hater in the Whitehouse and don't care who the hurt in the process.
 
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39. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 21:35 RollinThundr
 
Sepharo wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 21:18:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
Do a search for politifact gm bail out.


Are you fucking kidding me Rotfl

Read my post.

You're missing my point, had they restructured without Government bailing their asses out, the tax payers wouldn't be on the hook for billions that will never be paid back.

They would have been fine, and really it's their own fault for continuing to think they could rely on huge gas guzzlers while Japanese car makers like Toyota were making fuel efficient models.

Like I keep saying, taxes aren't the issue, spending is. If China tomorrow said, pay us all the loans we've given you tomorrow we'd be fucked. And here you have Obama wanting to raise the debt ceiling again, our credit rating gets lowered for the first time in history, he adds 5 trillion to the debt, and that wasn't enough, he wants to do it again.

You honestly don't see a problem with that? Both parties are driving us off the cliff with spending, dems have the pedal to the floor.
 
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38. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 21:18 Sepharo
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 20:47:
Do a search for politifact gm bail out.


Are you fucking kidding me Rotfl

Read my post.
 
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37. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 20:47 RollinThundr
 
Sepharo wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 19:53:
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 14:35:
Obama didn't need to bail GM out with tax payer money, they could and SHOULD have filed for bankruptcy and refinanced/restructured themselves. GM still owes the taxpayers millions, and guess what we'll never see it. The only entity that won out in that deal was the auto workers union, surprise surprise. Same thing with Crysler, the kicker there? Crysler is now owned by a European car maker.

You don't really know what you're talking about.


Global auto industry crisis 2008-2010
U.S. in 2008-2010 auto industry crisis

Bush put $17.4 billion into the bailout using executive powers to redirect TARP money after the Senate rejected the bill (a rare thank you to Mr. Bush!). Both Chrysler and GM filed for bankruptcy. Obama later put $21.6 billion into the bailout and fired GM's CEO. Chrysler has since "repaid its loans" years ahead of schedule, unfortunately GM owes much more still but it's still paying it off and has since become the #1 auto maker in the world again.

All that said, the numbers are all over the place and the bailout wasn't any one loan or event. It was over years and for various different reasons and funding sources... PolitiFact has more.

So yeah billions still to be paid off but I think saving a national industry and an entire metro region of about 5 million people was worth it especially considering what a huge success it was. Meanwhile Mitt "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" Romney writes a fucking article in the top paper of his "home" state shitting on the people there and then after the successful bailout changes his name to Mitt "I’ll take a lot of credit" Romney. What a piece of shit.

No no they haven't. They paid back some of it. Plain and simple the Government should have given them jack shit. It's humorous to me, that you liberals cry about corporate welfare but if a dem is at all involved. Hey it's ok!

The problem is spending, regardless of who the president is, we spend far far more than what we take in. Here you have a president who added 5 trillion to our debt in less than one term. You're fine with that. Yet cried like little girls about Bush's spending. If you're going to bitch at least be consistent with it.

Hell you have a president who hasn't passed a budget in nearly 4 years. Yet that's quite alright, let's just spend some more money it'll automagically fix the economy and hey let's blame corporations! Oh except Apple, because we liberals like our Iphones. Oh and the Rich people who pay the most taxes in this country, well they should pay more so those people too lazy to get a fucking job living on welfare can have some more welfare, because really, they're entitled to it.

The shit you folks ramble on about doesn't even make logical sense.
I'm from Mass, I don't like Mittens, but you know what? I'd take him over Deval "using welfare EBT cards for booze and smokes is ok" Patrick any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Do a search for politifact gm bail out. tinyurl is being wonky for me.

• the amount taxpayers loaned to Chrysler before it filed for bankruptcy protection in 2009 — the entity now dubbed "Old Carco" — was chalked up as a loss by the federal government. That’s a $1.3 billion loan that will never be repaid. (The old company is still grinding through liquidation, but the government doesn’t expect to collect any more.)


• The new company received $6.7 billion in secured loans. In April 2010, GM repaid them with interest — and touted it had "repaid our government loan, in full, with interest, five years ahead of the original schedule." But billions of dollars more had been converted to a 61 percent stake in the new company, said James Cain, financial news manager for GM. That stake is now down to 32 percent of the company’s common stock. The question is how much that stock will earn taxpayers to offset $27 billion not yet recouped from old and new GM. A third of GM’s entire stock value as of March 19, 2012, was just $13 billion. (Check its current market capitalization.)

• The former GMAC still has substantial government ownership – more than 70 percent of its common stock is held by taxpayers, according to the Treasury Department — but no loans. According to ProPublica, there’s more than $11 billion left on the GMAC ledger. So it’s not yet clear how taxpayers will fare.

This comment was edited on Jun 22, 2012, 20:59.
 
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36. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 19:53 Sepharo
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 14:35:
Obama didn't need to bail GM out with tax payer money, they could and SHOULD have filed for bankruptcy and refinanced/restructured themselves. GM still owes the taxpayers millions, and guess what we'll never see it. The only entity that won out in that deal was the auto workers union, surprise surprise. Same thing with Crysler, the kicker there? Crysler is now owned by a European car maker.

You don't really know what you're talking about.

Global auto industry crisis 2008-2010
U.S. in 2008-2010 auto industry crisis

Bush put $17.4 billion into the bailout using executive powers to redirect TARP money after the Senate rejected the bill (a rare thank you to Mr. Bush!). Both Chrysler and GM filed for bankruptcy. Obama later put $21.6 billion into the bailout and fired GM's CEO. Chrysler has since "repaid its loans" years ahead of schedule, unfortunately GM owes much more still but it's still paying it off and has since become the #1 auto maker in the world again.

All that said, the numbers are all over the place and the bailout wasn't any one loan or event. It was over years and for various different reasons and funding sources... PolitiFact has more.

So yeah billions still to be paid off but I think saving a national industry and an entire metro region of about 5 million people was worth it especially considering what a huge success it was. Meanwhile Mitt "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" Romney writes a fucking article in the top paper of his "home" state shitting on the people there and then after the successful bailout changes his name to Mitt "I’ll take a lot of credit" Romney. What a piece of shit.
 
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35. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 19:44 Cutter
 
bhcompy wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 18:34:
Wat. If Obama was a libertarian the Patriot Act extension would never have signed, he wouldn't have signed the healthcare reform bill(nor would he have proposed it), and he wouldn't allow the NSA to snoop on innocent Americans.

Ok, he's not a Ron Paul libertarian, but he's sure as shit not a dyed-in-the-wool democrat or liberal either. The guy is the best orator the country has seen since Kennedy. Kennedy however tried to make a real difference - which is why they killed him. Obama has just been all about the talk. Forgeting conservative circles most democrats aren't happy with him either. However, if it's a choice between hin or someone like Romney they'll still be pulling for him. It's actually really sad because the presidential election shaping up for this year is going to between two guys that neither side really wants.
 
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34. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 19:37 Beamer
 
space captain wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 18:33:
partisan politics are already retarded, from go - but generally most of the fucked up ideas and perspectives are found on the "conservative" side of things

but really both sides are fucked up in general, especially due to the oppositional ideas/views that are generated automatically.. just because you are part of the other "team"... or because its like some kind of war where you must kill the enemy with genocide

its really become its own thing, its apart from any kind of real value in terms of actual governance and regulations

Yup.
 
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33. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 19:10 HorrorScope
 
Beelzebud wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 18:04:
Sums up conservative attitude in this country. Government assistance for the poor = horrible waste. Government assistance for his game company = great.


Yup.

Tax Breaks = Corporate Welfare.

In terms of this situation, I have held a conversation with Curt prior, I can state he was passionate, level headed and fair. But when the ship sinks, it all looks bad. This is a failed company, unfortunately it's becoming a dime a dozen. Yep the bit more then they could chew, doesn't really make you a bad person. The gov't money was nothing more then a risky investment for them and it failed like risky investments can.
 
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32. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 19:09 jdreyer
 
Cutter, that was awesome.  
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31. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 18:43 Erebus
 
I feel for all of the people at 38, including Mr. Schilling.

The real bummer here is that Schilling didn't have anyone to slap him around or only let him have $10m of his $50m fortune to throw down the black hole. Not knowing exactly what you're doing in game development is a great way to blow through any amount of money.

I sincerely doubt that Curt Schilling is any kind of diabolical mastermind. I think he just lost his entire fortune and was probably in a lot of denial up until the last minute. He's not having any fun right now.

Running a small business is brutal for anyone. He was a noob at business and game development.

Here's hoping those folks all find good jobs soon.
 
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30. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 18:37 Veterator
 
Millions in funding businesses shouldn't need government funding. Tax breaks are OK, but funding is not.

Funding for businesses should be limited to extremely small or personal LOCAL businesses. Not hundreds of employees moving across country to seize the large amount of offered money.

That's basically bribery to work somewhere that may end up not being cost effective without those bribes. And it's falsely inflating the company, which we get enough of already.

 
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29. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 18:34 bhcompy
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 18:07:

Obama is not a liberal, he's a libertarian. And it's not like the guy had a lot of choice. Regardless, I don't think anyone is happy with Obama at this point. However, the alternatives - so far at least - are worse.


Wat. If Obama was a libertarian the Patriot Act extension would never have signed, he wouldn't have signed the healthcare reform bill(nor would he have proposed it), and he wouldn't allow the NSA to snoop on innocent Americans.
 
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28. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 18:33 space captain
 
partisan politics are already retarded, from go - but generally most of the fucked up ideas and perspectives are found on the "conservative" side of things

but really both sides are fucked up in general, especially due to the oppositional ideas/views that are generated automatically.. just because you are part of the other "team"... or because its like some kind of war where you must kill the enemy with genocide

its really become its own thing, its apart from any kind of real value in terms of actual governance and regulations
 
Go forth, and kill!
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27. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 18:32 Tom
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 18:07:
Regardless, I don't think anyone is happy with Obama at this point.

Huh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_approval_rating
 
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26. Re: Curt Schilling on 38 Studios' Demise Jun 22, 2012, 18:07 Cutter
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 22, 2012, 14:35:
Hold on a second. What most conservatives, at least fiscal conservatives complain about is rewarding those that refuse to work when they're capable of it.

Well, that depends on your definition of work and who's paying the bills. Cheap labour conservatives always like to argue that illegal immigrants are needed because Americans don't want to do the hard and dirty work, which is an outright lie, they just don't want to do it for slave wages on which they house, feed, and clothe themselves nevermind a family. And when it comes to sticking their snouts in the public trough they have no problem with it. That's the sort of hypocrisy and greed that really gets on my tits. Let's end free trade and get back to fair trade.

I don't think anyone is against helping out small businesses (not that 38 Studios really fits into that category) or having a safety net for veterans or people who are truly disabled that can't work.

If that were remotely true America wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now. If the 1%ers were actually paying their fair share it wouldn't be a problem at all.

You're using the usual liberal stereotype that only Republicans are rich. Or only Republicans get corporate lobbying etc. Which is total bs. Oprah's pretty rich, Bill Cosby and most of liberal hollywood are pretty rich, Obama's certainly not a poor man. Warren Buffet, who's company owes billions in back taxes is a liberal last I checked.

I never said there weren't rich liberals. I'm just saying their hypocrisy doesn't go nearly as far. To quote Bud Fox, 'How much is enough? How many yachts do you need to water ski behind?'

Obama didn't need to bail GM out with tax payer money, they could and SHOULD have filed for bankruptcy and refinanced/restructured themselves. GM still owes the taxpayers millions, and guess what we'll never see it. The only entity that won out in that deal was the auto workers union, surprise surprise. Same thing with Crysler, the kicker there? Crysler is now owned by a European car maker.

Obama is not a liberal, he's a libertarian. And it's not like the guy had a lot of choice. Regardless, I don't think anyone is happy with Obama at this point. However, the alternatives - so far at least - are worse.

The man added 5 trillion to the debt in 3 and half years. Has yet to pass a single budget since coming into office, has wasted tons on a failed stimulus, failed green energy companies, all on the tax payer's dime.

Well it's hard to get anything done when the other half of the government refuses to budge, much less bend on anything. The democrats have been compromising over and over and over for decades now. When is the GOP ever going to start?

This whole liberal myth that only republican's or big "republican" companies get bailouts is exactly that, a myth.

Well who do these companies give most of their money to? It's sure not the democrats. Though in fairness, Bush Sr. was opposed to bailing out the S&L's in the 80s. Truth be told, the guy was acutally a good president and I wish he would have had a second term. As I've always stated, I'm a centrist that leans left, but I do have rightist tendancies too.

No doubt Schilling didn't know wtf he was doing and had the wrong people handling 38 studio's finances, however, if I'm an employee of a company that says they're going to "take care of" selling my house, I would certainly be more involved in the process than just blindly trusting they did so or were making on time payments.

Ok, we both agree on that. Question is, how is he going to make it right? You can't just talk about personal responsibility or it means nothing. The buck stopped with him and he owes it to those people to make it right. And I know you agree with that sentiment.

 
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