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On BF3 Cheating

There's an interesting article on Kotaku on cheating in multiplayer games, focusing on malfeasance in Battlefield 3, DICE's military shooter sequel. Well, malfeasance is our term, the article takes an almost sympathetic tone, characterizing the cheaters it specifically portrays as regular players, and relating their complex rationalizations of how they are somehow more justified than garden-variety cheaters. The article also takes a surprisingly informative approach to details on this, choosing to provide links to cheat providers, prices of various exploits, and even de facto reviews of their effectiveness.

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38. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 20:06 Sepharo
 
ItBurn wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:57:
It's much worse than in CS or TF2. You can still get killed like a whole second after going into cover. I've never seen this in any other game.

Clearly you've never played Q3 "Unlagged". Just about all games use the technique to some degree though.
 
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37. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 19:02 eRe4s3r
 
If you are on a server that "deals with cheaters quickly" you are just having some idiot admin who can't tell left from right banning people because he is back with 3 to 17 stats while I have 15 to 3 (happened to me on canals hardcore tdm of all places). A good player can have a good run, I actually have days where I can EASILY play a 3.0 KD ratio for many rounds and have to hold back others I don't even get into the top 20 even if i try.

Fucking stupid admins are as bad as cheaters. Both equally damage the game. I just chalk it up as "it's their server" and honestly, being banned for cheating when you are not cheating, that is extremely good for the ego.

But as you said, too much on BF3 runs client side and this is why you got damage cheats, insta kill cheats and stuff like that. That said, those cheats, can all easily be found by the pb system if they have some people "inside" the cheat sites buying the latest stuff and then waiting some weeks before a ban wave. that is likely how PB currently operates
 
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36. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 17:43 Nate
 
That article was crap. I stopped playing when all that cheating hit BF3. Ruined too much of the play. Getting on servers that dealt with cheaters quickly was too much of a pain.

From what I read, DICE did way too much client side and BF3 will never have this cheating problem solved.
 
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35. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 17:35 DangerDog
 
other than to piss random people off "just because" I don't know why you would need to use cheats in BF3, it's not a difficult game to win at.  
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34. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 17:07 NegaDeath
 
Matshock wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 16:09:
Even amateur sports- we have plenty of rules about equipment in softball. If you take the field with metal cleats or step up the the plate with an ultralight bat you're kicked out of the game.

But Jimmy had a really rough day at work, he deserves the right to use those rocket shoes and the helmet mounted HUD radar.
 
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33. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 16:09 Matshock
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 16:04:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 15:47:
It's infuriating that they accept "John's" justifications without push back.

If the same justifications were applied to professional sports, I'm sure you'd see the author's article go up in flames.

"Timmy can't compete in the world of professional football as he is a albino dwarf with a bone condition. To make up for it, he takes a loaded gun into every game and aims for the groin."

Even amateur sports- we have plenty of rules about equipment in softball. If you take the field with metal cleats or step up the the plate with an ultralight bat you're kicked out of the game.
 
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32. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 16:04 SimplyMonk
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 15:47:
It's infuriating that they accept "John's" justifications without push back.

If the same justifications were applied to professional sports, I'm sure you'd see the author's article go up in flames.

"Timmy can't compete in the world of professional football as he is a albino dwarf with a bone condition. To make up for it, he takes a loaded gun into every game and aims for the groin."

...

Kinda want to play Blood Bowl now.
 
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31. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 16:01 SimplyMonk
 
Ozmodan wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 15:43:
How people rationalize cheating is comical. Cheating is cheating. If you use a cheat you are a flat out dirtbag. If you can't play a game using the rules, why even bother to play.

QFT
 
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30. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:58 Matshock
 
Crustacean Soup wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:54:
Matshock wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 13:42:
It's pretty easy to tell- you can't even take very long range shots from a good, concealed position without instantly being spotted by either the person you took a shot at or someone you swept with your "pointer" near the person you took a shot at. It's especially bad with vehicles and their large hit boxes.

Then all they have to do is only use their aimbots when they've got a clearly doable shot otherwise. Like ASeven said- it's easy to do subtly.

Tribes Ascend is still pretty good though, I think the first aimbots made an appearance a few weeks ago but were quickly squashed.

Aimbots shouldn't even be possible in T:A. Even after the last patch nerfed the bullet weapons, they're still obnoxious as hell. They're all capable of dealing damage outside of the distance at which any of the slow-projectile weapons are effective (because bullets are harder to evade). They should spread out more with time as they're fired, but I'm not sure that they do. They have had their overall spread increased slightly and damage decreased slightly, but I still get chewed up by techs when I'm trying to mortar spam the enemy base and have no way of responding to them. Haven't had anyone Falcon the hell out of me when playing Pathfinder, so that's something.

It was a guy with a Juggernaut/LMG. I'd evade in any direction/jink/etc at any speed and get clipped down even at longer ranges and minimal exposure to his vision (like a hill between us). He also never left the ground.

Now that you mention it I wonder if it was a complete bot. Once I just started avoiding him/it I didn't have any troubles.

Anyhow, I haven't seen it since the last patch.

 
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29. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:50 ItBurn
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 15:47:
The thing that annoys me most about this article is the sympathetic tone. "His job is hard." "Cheating is his anger outlet." "He's just a gamer like you and me." "He had to work a lot and didn't have time to put in to keep his skill set up so he turned to hacks to keep pace with his clanmates."

It's infuriating that they accept "John's" justifications without push back.

The guy who wrote the article probably cheats too.
 
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28. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:50 Agent.X7
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 15:47:
The thing that annoys me most about this article is the sympathetic tone. "His job is hard." "Cheating is his anger outlet." "He's just a gamer like you and me." "He had to work a lot and didn't have time to put in to keep his skill set up so he turned to hacks to keep pace with his clanmates."

It's infuriating that they accept "John's" justifications without push back.

Yup. The whole "not a bad person" thing is bullshit. Sport, you are the very definition of a bad person. You get off on making other peoples' lives worse.
 
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27. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:47 jdreyer
 
The thing that annoys me most about this article is the sympathetic tone. "His job is hard." "Cheating is his anger outlet." "He's just a gamer like you and me." "He had to work a lot and didn't have time to put in to keep his skill set up so he turned to hacks to keep pace with his clanmates."

It's infuriating that they accept "John's" justifications without push back.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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26. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:43 Ozmodan
 
How people rationalize cheating is comical. Cheating is cheating. If you use a cheat you are a flat out dirtbag. If you can't play a game using the rules, why even bother to play.  
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25. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:34 jdreyer
 
DangerDog wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 15:19:
anything to damage EA's image, though I don't agree with providing free advertising to the cheat providers.

Well, people who are motivated to cheat don't need Kotaku, just Google.

 
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24. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:19 MajorD
 

Give me a F'ing break!!! Cheating is cheating, and the people know WTF they are, whether it is conscientiously or is sub conscientiously
 
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23. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:19 DangerDog
 
anything to damage EA's image, though I don't agree with providing free advertising to the cheat providers.  
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22. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 15:09 necrosis
 
DG wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:40:
  • autospot - why does the client even KNOW where people are in order to spot them? Shit, no wonder the BF games are so laggy, every client knows everything about every other client that it has no need to know about!]
  • The client does need to know this. Game clients have known where EVERY other player is for years. Going back to DOOM! How else do you think you can change your player view while watching a demo record?

    The game has to know this for many reasons. Where the bullet came from. What sounds to make and where to make them from (not to mention calculating in effects on that sound due to the environment.)
     
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    21. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 14:57 ItBurn
     
    Dev wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:48:
    DG wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:40:
    The response by the dev is a total joke as well. The best way to combat cheating is to look at stats? Wipe first then ban for second offence? They're only even trying to get the most flagrant to buy a second copy.
    Whats even more hilarious is that the new BF3 premium package lets cheaters wipe their stats. Its like they are trying to give cheaters a reason to buy it.
    ItBurn wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:46:
    To me it definitely looks like hit detection is client side. If you go into cover while being shot at, you still get hit long after you're hidden. Because of the lag, your enemy still sees you even tho you just hid in your game. That or, it's really strange handling of hit detection or broken position interpolation.
    That in and of itself is not evidence of client side hit detection. That happens in CS and TF2 which are server based hit detection, because of the whole lag prediction model they use.

    Now, it may well be that BF3 hit detection is all client side, I don't know. I'm just saying that bit of evidence doesn't mean much.

    It's much worse than in CS or TF2. You can still get killed like a whole second after going into cover. I've never seen this in any other game.
     
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    20. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 14:54 Crustacean Soup
     
    Matshock wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 13:42:
    It's pretty easy to tell- you can't even take very long range shots from a good, concealed position without instantly being spotted by either the person you took a shot at or someone you swept with your "pointer" near the person you took a shot at. It's especially bad with vehicles and their large hit boxes.

    Then all they have to do is only use their aimbots when they've got a clearly doable shot otherwise. Like ASeven said- it's easy to do subtly.

    Tribes Ascend is still pretty good though, I think the first aimbots made an appearance a few weeks ago but were quickly squashed.

    Aimbots shouldn't even be possible in T:A. Even after the last patch nerfed the bullet weapons, they're still obnoxious as hell. They're all capable of dealing damage outside of the distance at which any of the slow-projectile weapons are effective (because bullets are harder to evade). They should spread out more with time as they're fired, but I'm not sure that they do. They have had their overall spread increased slightly and damage decreased slightly, but I still get chewed up by techs when I'm trying to mortar spam the enemy base and have no way of responding to them. Haven't had anyone Falcon the hell out of me when playing Pathfinder, so that's something.
     
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    19. Re: On BF3 Cheating Jun 18, 2012, 14:48 Dev
     
    DG wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:40:
    The response by the dev is a total joke as well. The best way to combat cheating is to look at stats? Wipe first then ban for second offence? They're only even trying to get the most flagrant to buy a second copy.
    Whats even more hilarious is that the new BF3 premium package lets cheaters wipe their stats. Its like they are trying to give cheaters a reason to buy it.
    ItBurn wrote on Jun 18, 2012, 14:46:
    To me it definitely looks like hit detection is client side. If you go into cover while being shot at, you still get hit long after you're hidden. Because of the lag, your enemy still sees you even tho you just hid in your game. That or, it's really strange handling of hit detection or broken position interpolation.
    That in and of itself is not evidence of client side hit detection. That happens in CS and TF2 which are server based hit detection, because of the whole lag prediction model they use.

    Now, it may well be that BF3 hit detection is all client side, I don't know. I'm just saying that bit of evidence doesn't mean much.
     
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