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Epic Assisting Big Huge Games

An update from Dr. Michael Capps on the Epic Games Website explains how Epic Games is stepping up to the aide of Big Huge Games, the developer of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning that was closed by the recent demise of 38 Studios. The post outlines plans to launch a new studio in Baltimore centered around the former BHG staff, and in the meantime Epic is bringing in some of them to do contract work. Here's a bit:

It’ll take a while to find space, set up desks and PCs, purchase sufficient Nerf weaponry and Dr. Pepper, etc. But some of these folks have been going too long without a paycheck to wait for that. So, as soon as we can, we’re going to try to get people working down here at Epic headquarters in Cary, NC as contractors.

There’s a million things to work out. How many of the team can we hire? What will it be called? What will they be working on? We don’t know all the answers yet. Please give us some time to figure it out; we hope to have more to share soon.

The way we see it, there’s been a big storm in Baltimore, and we’re taking in a few of the refugees — as are the awesome folks at Zynga East, Zenimax Online, and other southeastern studios. Epic’s in a situation where we can do this, and it very clearly fits with our company values, so we’re going to give it a whirl.

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18. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 14:49 Cutter
 
Ruffiana wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:11:
Yes, except the vast majority of the money lent to 38 studios goes right back into the local economy as they use it to pay interest on said loans, taxes, rent, utilities, and payroll to their employees (who in turn turn around and put their share back into the local economy through taxes, rent, utilities, food, gas, clothing, etc etc.)

It's not like this money just vanished into the ether or ended up in a foreign bank account.

That's not true at all. All your doing is redistributing tax money in an unfair manner. And given that the taxpayers of RI are now left holding the bag it just means a bunch of people got a free ride for a year and few of them made out like bandits. 38/BHG were government employees for all intents and purposes. And though I keep asking, no one seems to know or wants to admit to how many actual jobs were created for actual residents of RI. From everything I can gather it wasn't much. The fact remains that most people were opposed to the deal in the first place and for good reason. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out a company with no track record involved in a risky venture for a lot of money probably won't bode well in the end.

Now, how they taken that money and at least risked it on small businesses - the real jobs creator - they would have seen some failure but they would have seen a lot more success and it also guarentees local jobs for local people. As an ex-small business owner myself - who will be back in biz for himself again one day soon - I get incensed when the government tells me they have't got dime one for me to create immediate local jobs for a fraction of the cost of some big business who creates much less employment overall and gives back a lot less to the community because of their tax breaks, etc. For 1% of that loan I could start a business employing 5 people tomorrow - just to start.
 
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17. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 14:33 everyone
 
Can't say I'll be looking forward to the resulting game(s), but this was nice of Epic.  
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16. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 14:22 Ravor
 
I haven't been following this much but I just wanted to mention that really did enjoy the game. I had a lot of fun playing it, enjoyed it more then Skyrim at the end of the day and got more play out of it also. It's unfortunate that it didn't do that well.  
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15. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 13:39 Agent.X7
 
alvador wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 12:41:
I've been lurking on Blue's for a decade or more but practically never say anything- not entirely sure why I feel the need to say this here and now, but the amount of misinformation that has been put out on the whole situation is infuriating.

As an artist at 38 for the past 12 months and a 15+ year resident of RI I have skin on both sides of this game. Contrary to popular opinion Curt was not running the business side of things and I don't think there were anything other than realistic expectations the entire way through the project. It was well known how much it would cost, and how long it would take (we DID push the date back later in the process, something we tried super hard not to do but in the end decided that the features that would have to be cut for release were too important) and that the state of the MMO market had changed considerably since the studio was founded- they had analyzed THAT situation and they had a plan- ambitious, still risky, but given the potential payoff as well as the undeniable quality of what we were making it was not an unreasonable plan. There was a huge deal which would have secured the rest of the development costs that was well underway (we all saw the investors getting their tours of the studio, this WAS happening) but we needed a bridge loan to cover the gap. This was being handled privately but it got delayed by circumstances beyond anyone's control (some serious bad timing, a really bizarre thing that I'm not sure I can talk about) and we were forced to turn to the state for help.

The governor saw a chance to kill a deal he'd opposed from the start, and did exactly that. He's trying to spin it as the responsible thing to do, but in fact all it would have taken was the release of the film tax credits they'd already agreed to release (the "ineligibility" thing was dug up as an excuse- how many of the Hollywood film companies who've used the same tax credits are incorporated in RI?) and we'd have had the time to close our funding deal (and a 2nd deal was also coming down the pike). Instead, they reneged on both the release of the tax credits in exchange for the $1.1mil fee to the RIEDC and on deferring that same fee so that the company could make payroll for the month (both things we had been told they'd agreed to do), and the gov's announcement of confidential info (release date, monthly burn rate) as well as his publicly disparaging remarks ("insolvent", "tragically shaky company", "what do you expect with a sports figure running the company", etc.) torpedoed the deals in the works and guaranteed that RI would pay the loan instead of 38. The bad check story was a flat out lie. These are not the actions of a business partner dealing in good faith. If you want evidence of who's trying to screw who, compare the almost universal employee support for 38 vs. the resignation of 6 members of the RIEDC (and the request to not be reappointed by a few more) in the last 3 weeks.

MMOs are undeniably risky, I don't disagree that the deal probably shouldn't have been struck in the first place (I wasn't a 38 employee at that point), but once it was made it was in the best interest of the state for it to succeed. Given that the state had put NO money into 38 yet- they backed the deal, but put up no cash whatsoever (and wouldn't, unless 38 failed)- releasing $8mil in tax credits to help keep the company afloat and make payroll in order to avoid having to pay $112mil in loan plus interest, plus unemployment for 300 people, seems like a no brainer. Instead, Scumbag Chafee [url=]http://www.38watch.com/forums/showthread.php?2817-Caption-Contest[/url] saw an opportunity to try to raise his 22% approval rating by "proving" he was right about what a bad deal it was.

I can't speak to any of the debacles that have risen up during and in the wake of the studio's collapse and subsequent inability to pay for many things that they had otherwise taken responsibilty for paying, but I'll say that after almost 20 years in the industry the management at 38 as a whole and Curt in particular were more honest and up front about everything than any place I've ever worked before. I'm pretty much diametrically opposed to Curt politically, and up until last month I had a lot of respect for Chafee as well- I even voted for that rat bastard (my picture in the dictionary for "voter's remorse")- but seeing both sides of this better than 99.9% of the public (38's PR advice [sic] has kept the execs from speaking about much, leaving the governor and the hostile local press to spread misinformation freely) I can tell you that this was in fact a political hatchet job.

Thank you. I've been telling people this, but people still choose to lay the blame with the wrong people. Of course, I guess it won't matter much even though you were an employee with the inside scoop, some people just can't see the truth when it's slapping them in the face.

And let's see how many ties I can use the word people in a paragraph, people.

People.
 
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14. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 13:28 alvador
 
Ruffiana wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:11:

Yes, except the vast majority of the money lent to 38 studios goes right back into the local economy as they use it to pay interest on said loans, taxes, rent, utilities, and payroll to their employees (who in turn turn around and put their share back into the local economy through taxes, rent, utilities, food, gas, clothing, etc etc.)

It's not like this money just vanished into the ether or ended up in a foreign bank account.

This.

The governor knew (because he was told by us) that the tax credits he was refusing to release would go straight to employee paychecks first, but he still decided to withhold them.

Enough of us lived paycheck to paycheck that you are entirely correct that almost all that money went back into the local economy. Over 50 people bought houses in RI when they moved here and we, as a company and as employees, had a preference for local goods and services. Now, with a significant portion of 38 employees already out of the state, the $$ spent on our unemployment WILL be going away from the local economy.
 
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13. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 13:12 Beamer
 
Ruffiana wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:11:
Beamer wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:19:
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:09:
Shineyguy wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:39:
I agree, it's great to see someone step in and help all the people put out by Curt Schilling and his shady dealings.

I don't think it was shadey so much as Curt is just an enthusiast who didn't realize what a huge endeavor this was. His only other successful business was a little boards game company and this wasn't exactly to that scale. They quite simply tried to go way too big, too soon. Amalur wasn't even a terrible game, it was just very average. Unfortunately for a company employing nearly 400 people your first product can't be simply average in this industry.

They just misspent the money (things like millions to Salvatore and Mcfarlane), I don't think it was particularly shadey so much as just poor decision making from top to bottom. I do get why people are upset with Curt though, he needs to take some responsibility for this mess. Their problems were obvious for awhile now and not having sufficient cashflow to even meet payroll indicates a terrible lack of planning.

I get Schillings' point, though - the RI government owed them more money, and had it paid that money they'd still be in business. Had they not opened their mouths 38S would have had opportunities for external funding, too.

But I get the governor's point, too. That cash would have allowed 38S to survive longer, but there's no proof it would have led to sustainability - there's plenty of reason to believe it just would have held this disaster off 6 months or so. And it's flat-out stupid for a local government to invest this kind of cash into video games.


Whole thing is a disaster, but the only finger I'll really point is at the idiot that approved this deal in the first place. Schilling definitely had too big dreams and didn't control his studio or spendings well, but I won't call someone "shady" for being a bad businessman with huge dreams that's offered $100million to realize them.

Yes, except the vast majority of the money lent to 38 studios goes right back into the local economy as they use it to pay interest on said loans, taxes, rent, utilities, and payroll to their employees (who in turn turn around and put their share back into the local economy through taxes, rent, utilities, food, gas, clothing, etc etc.)

It's not like this money just vanished into the ether or ended up in a foreign bank account.

But that also doesn't make it a smart use of 100 million dollars. There are plenty of other, less risky, higher reward ways to invest it.
 
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12. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 13:11 Ruffiana
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:19:
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:09:
Shineyguy wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:39:
I agree, it's great to see someone step in and help all the people put out by Curt Schilling and his shady dealings.

I don't think it was shadey so much as Curt is just an enthusiast who didn't realize what a huge endeavor this was. His only other successful business was a little boards game company and this wasn't exactly to that scale. They quite simply tried to go way too big, too soon. Amalur wasn't even a terrible game, it was just very average. Unfortunately for a company employing nearly 400 people your first product can't be simply average in this industry.

They just misspent the money (things like millions to Salvatore and Mcfarlane), I don't think it was particularly shadey so much as just poor decision making from top to bottom. I do get why people are upset with Curt though, he needs to take some responsibility for this mess. Their problems were obvious for awhile now and not having sufficient cashflow to even meet payroll indicates a terrible lack of planning.

I get Schillings' point, though - the RI government owed them more money, and had it paid that money they'd still be in business. Had they not opened their mouths 38S would have had opportunities for external funding, too.

But I get the governor's point, too. That cash would have allowed 38S to survive longer, but there's no proof it would have led to sustainability - there's plenty of reason to believe it just would have held this disaster off 6 months or so. And it's flat-out stupid for a local government to invest this kind of cash into video games.


Whole thing is a disaster, but the only finger I'll really point is at the idiot that approved this deal in the first place. Schilling definitely had too big dreams and didn't control his studio or spendings well, but I won't call someone "shady" for being a bad businessman with huge dreams that's offered $100million to realize them.

Yes, except the vast majority of the money lent to 38 studios goes right back into the local economy as they use it to pay interest on said loans, taxes, rent, utilities, and payroll to their employees (who in turn turn around and put their share back into the local economy through taxes, rent, utilities, food, gas, clothing, etc etc.)

It's not like this money just vanished into the ether or ended up in a foreign bank account.
 
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11. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 12:41 alvador
 
I've been lurking on Blue's for a decade or more but practically never say anything- not entirely sure why I feel the need to say this here and now, but the amount of misinformation that has been put out on the whole situation is infuriating.

As an artist at 38 for the past 12 months and a 15+ year resident of RI I have skin on both sides of this game. Contrary to popular opinion Curt was not running the business side of things and I don't think there were anything other than realistic expectations the entire way through the project. It was well known how much it would cost, and how long it would take (we DID push the date back later in the process, something we tried super hard not to do but in the end decided that the features that would have to be cut for release were too important) and that the state of the MMO market had changed considerably since the studio was founded- they had analyzed THAT situation and they had a plan- ambitious, still risky, but given the potential payoff as well as the undeniable quality of what we were making it was not an unreasonable plan. There was a huge deal which would have secured the rest of the development costs that was well underway (we all saw the investors getting their tours of the studio, this WAS happening) but we needed a bridge loan to cover the gap. This was being handled privately but it got delayed by circumstances beyond anyone's control (some serious bad timing, a really bizarre thing that I'm not sure I can talk about) and we were forced to turn to the state for help.

The governor saw a chance to kill a deal he'd opposed from the start, and did exactly that. He's trying to spin it as the responsible thing to do, but in fact all it would have taken was the release of the film tax credits they'd already agreed to release (the "ineligibility" thing was dug up as an excuse- how many of the Hollywood film companies who've used the same tax credits are incorporated in RI?) and we'd have had the time to close our funding deal (and a 2nd deal was also coming down the pike). Instead, they reneged on both the release of the tax credits in exchange for the $1.1mil fee to the RIEDC and on deferring that same fee so that the company could make payroll for the month (both things we had been told they'd agreed to do), and the gov's announcement of confidential info (release date, monthly burn rate) as well as his publicly disparaging remarks ("insolvent", "tragically shaky company", "what do you expect with a sports figure running the company", etc.) torpedoed the deals in the works and guaranteed that RI would pay the loan instead of 38. The bad check story was a flat out lie. These are not the actions of a business partner dealing in good faith. If you want evidence of who's trying to screw who, compare the almost universal employee support for 38 vs. the resignation of 6 members of the RIEDC (and the request to not be reappointed by a few more) in the last 3 weeks.

MMOs are undeniably risky, I don't disagree that the deal probably shouldn't have been struck in the first place (I wasn't a 38 employee at that point), but once it was made it was in the best interest of the state for it to succeed. Given that the state had put NO money into 38 yet- they backed the deal, but put up no cash whatsoever (and wouldn't, unless 38 failed)- releasing $8mil in tax credits to help keep the company afloat and make payroll in order to avoid having to pay $112mil in loan plus interest, plus unemployment for 300 people, seems like a no brainer. Instead, Scumbag Chafee [url=]http://www.38watch.com/forums/showthread.php?2817-Caption-Contest[/url] saw an opportunity to try to raise his 22% approval rating by "proving" he was right about what a bad deal it was.

I can't speak to any of the debacles that have risen up during and in the wake of the studio's collapse and subsequent inability to pay for many things that they had otherwise taken responsibilty for paying, but I'll say that after almost 20 years in the industry the management at 38 as a whole and Curt in particular were more honest and up front about everything than any place I've ever worked before. I'm pretty much diametrically opposed to Curt politically, and up until last month I had a lot of respect for Chafee as well- I even voted for that rat bastard (my picture in the dictionary for "voter's remorse")- but seeing both sides of this better than 99.9% of the public (38's PR advice [sic] has kept the execs from speaking about much, leaving the governor and the hostile local press to spread misinformation freely) I can tell you that this was in fact a political hatchet job.
 
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10. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 12:37 Beamer
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 12:34:
Beamer wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:19:
Whole thing is a disaster, but the only finger I'll really point is at the idiot that approved this deal in the first place. Schilling definitely had too big dreams and didn't control his studio or spendings well, but I won't call someone "shady" for being a bad businessman with huge dreams that's offered $100million to realize them.

The more and more I read about the whole affair this seems to be the only thing that makes sense and is believable. It just seems odd to me that you would go to the video game industry in order to empty out unemployment lines. I just don't feel it is a business that you can just throw people at and build a sustainable profit around. It requires skilled and talented people that raw headcount can't make up for and skilled/talented people usually aren't the ones without jobs. When you have developers working with staffs of around 50 employees and sometimes even less, bringing in a studio and having it hire 300 employees just seems like waste.

Especially when your first title, which actually did really well all things considered, needed blockbuster sales on the order of a Halo or CoD game just to break even. That right there should of been a huge warning sign to everyone that this was going to fail. Unless you really have something unique, you don't launch a new IP with those numbers, and KoA:R was far from anything unique.

Yeah.
If you want to prop up the economy push for something heavy, and by heavy I mean manufacturing or research.
Both employ plenty of people with a wide range of skills, both are hard to move due to equipment needs and both can pay off for decades (particularly research.)

Obama gets flack for all the failed R&D companies he's backed but if just one of them has a huge breakthrough it's worth all the investment for the public. Video game companies don't have big breakthroughs worth public investment...
 
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9. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 12:34 SimplyMonk
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:19:
Whole thing is a disaster, but the only finger I'll really point is at the idiot that approved this deal in the first place. Schilling definitely had too big dreams and didn't control his studio or spendings well, but I won't call someone "shady" for being a bad businessman with huge dreams that's offered $100million to realize them.

The more and more I read about the whole affair this seems to be the only thing that makes sense and is believable. It just seems odd to me that you would go to the video game industry in order to empty out unemployment lines. I just don't feel it is a business that you can just throw people at and build a sustainable profit around. It requires skilled and talented people that raw headcount can't make up for and skilled/talented people usually aren't the ones without jobs. When you have developers working with staffs of around 50 employees and sometimes even less, bringing in a studio and having it hire 300 employees just seems like waste.

Especially when your first title, which actually did really well all things considered, needed blockbuster sales on the order of a Halo or CoD game just to break even. That right there should of been a huge warning sign to everyone that this was going to fail. Unless you really have something unique, you don't launch a new IP with those numbers, and KoA:R was far from anything unique.
 
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8. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 10:19 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:09:
Shineyguy wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:39:
I agree, it's great to see someone step in and help all the people put out by Curt Schilling and his shady dealings.

I don't think it was shadey so much as Curt is just an enthusiast who didn't realize what a huge endeavor this was. His only other successful business was a little boards game company and this wasn't exactly to that scale. They quite simply tried to go way too big, too soon. Amalur wasn't even a terrible game, it was just very average. Unfortunately for a company employing nearly 400 people your first product can't be simply average in this industry.

They just misspent the money (things like millions to Salvatore and Mcfarlane), I don't think it was particularly shadey so much as just poor decision making from top to bottom. I do get why people are upset with Curt though, he needs to take some responsibility for this mess. Their problems were obvious for awhile now and not having sufficient cashflow to even meet payroll indicates a terrible lack of planning.

I get Schillings' point, though - the RI government owed them more money, and had it paid that money they'd still be in business. Had they not opened their mouths 38S would have had opportunities for external funding, too.

But I get the governor's point, too. That cash would have allowed 38S to survive longer, but there's no proof it would have led to sustainability - there's plenty of reason to believe it just would have held this disaster off 6 months or so. And it's flat-out stupid for a local government to invest this kind of cash into video games.


Whole thing is a disaster, but the only finger I'll really point is at the idiot that approved this deal in the first place. Schilling definitely had too big dreams and didn't control his studio or spendings well, but I won't call someone "shady" for being a bad businessman with huge dreams that's offered $100million to realize them.
 
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7. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 10:09 Verno
 
Shineyguy wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:39:
I agree, it's great to see someone step in and help all the people put out by Curt Schilling and his shady dealings.

I don't think it was shadey so much as Curt is just an enthusiast who didn't realize what a huge endeavor this was. His only other successful business was a little boards game company and this wasn't exactly to that scale. They quite simply tried to go way too big, too soon. Amalur wasn't even a terrible game, it was just very average. Unfortunately for a company employing nearly 400 people your first product can't be simply average in this industry.

They just misspent the money (things like millions to Salvatore and Mcfarlane), I don't think it was particularly shadey so much as just poor decision making from top to bottom. I do get why people are upset with Curt though, he needs to take some responsibility for this mess. Their problems were obvious for awhile now and not having sufficient cashflow to even meet payroll indicates a terrible lack of planning.
 
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6. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 09:43 Beamer
 
Shineyguy wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:39:
nin wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:18:

Nice to see other devs step in and help.


I agree, it's great to see someone step in and help all the people put out by Curt Schilling and his shady dealings.

I really fail to see the anger at Curt here. The ex employees don't seem to harbor any ill will towards him.

The guy opens a studio and employs hundreds for what, 3 years? He agrees to a deal with the RI government that's stupidly in his favor. A new governor comes in and pulls the deal, collapsing the company.

I don't see a single thing Schilling did that was "shady" here, in fact I don't think anyone was really shady here - what Schilling did was in the best interest of his company and what the new governor did was in the best interest of his state. But hey, some people love conspiracies and thinking things are "shady," even if the "shadiness" cost the accused tens of millions.
 
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5. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 09:42 nin
 
Yes, but how long will it last? A game most likely.

Yeah, but a paychecks a paycheck. I know when I lost my job in the dot bomb bubble in the early 00s, even a 3-4 month contract job was a godsend.


 
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4. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 09:41 Beamer
 
Cutter, read again. They're hiring contractors for a game, or less, but that's to hold the employees off until they get a full studio launched.

This PR isn't saying "we're helping by hiring BHG employees as contractors" it says "we're helping by opening an entire new studio in Baltimore, home of BHG, to be staffed by former BHG employees, but until we can actually get that up and running [which takes months], we'll bring a bunch of them down to Cary to be contractors, that way they can still bring in a paycheck until the new studio is open."
 
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3. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 09:39 Shineyguy
 
nin wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 09:18:

Nice to see other devs step in and help.


I agree, it's great to see someone step in and help all the people put out by Curt Schilling and his shady dealings.
 
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2. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 09:39 Cutter
 
Yes, but how long will it last? A game most likely. I think most people in this industry should simply resign themselves to being contractors now. Nothing wrong with it, plenty of people do it.

 
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1. Re: Epic Assisting Big Huge Games Jun 4, 2012, 09:18 nin
 


Nice to see other devs step in and help.

 
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