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Morning Mobilization

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31. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 15:00 wtf_man
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 14:51:
With boys you generally have to be tougher though.

I don't know if I would label it as being tougher (as in being more severe on them). More proactive and more work... probably, but corrective actions, in general, are about the same... just more often due to a boy's thickheadedness.

When they are teenagers... I found it to be the opposite... Girls are harder to raise, IMO... and I think you can guess why.

 
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30. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 14:51 SpectralMeat
 
space captain wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 14:23:
SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 14:05:
It is tough most of the time because people generally love their kids and tend to be soft with them but it will bite back hard.

either extreme produces bad results... plenty of family situations are dysfunctional to abusive.. it helps to step out of your own shoes once and a while and take a look a the big picture, if you can

Of course, you can not run an Army at home, but you can not let everything slide either. With boys you generally have to be tougher though.
 
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29. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 14:23 space captain
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 14:05:
It is tough most of the time because people generally love their kids and tend to be soft with them but it will bite back hard.

either extreme produces bad results... plenty of family situations are dysfunctional to abusive.. it helps to step out of your own shoes once and a while and take a look a the big picture, if you can
 
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28. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 14:05 SpectralMeat
 
wtf_man wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:55:
So, IMO electronics are only bad if you are using them as a babysitter or pacifier. I think they are wonderful as a reward. But that could go for just about anything, not just electronics. It depends on what the child is interested in... holding back the "most interesting item" as the reward item.

EDIT: Oh, and a big mistake I see many parents make... one has to stick with what they said. If the child didn't do as they were told... you don't just give them the iPad anyway. As a matter of fact I wouldn't let them play with it for the whole day. One needs to reinforce "I mean what I say, and you will obey".

+1 on that, that is exactly what me and my wife trying to do with the electronics.
As for stick what we say, this past weekend we went to an air show and the kids didn't listen to us, so we've promised them there will be time out when we get home, sure enough there was and they were crying and everything but we did stick to what we said.
It is tough most of the time because people generally love their kids and tend to be soft with them but it will bite back hard.
 
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27. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 14:04 Verno
 
Oh, and a big mistake I see many parents make... one has to stick with what they said. If the child didn't do as they were told... you don't just give them the iPad anyway. As a matter of fact I wouldn't let them play with it for the whole day. One needs to reinforce "I mean what I say, and you will obey".

Yeah that's one of the few constants we've found with good parents vs bad parents. Consistency is key. When we take away something, we make sure there is no going back on it or going to the other parent about it.
 
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26. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:55 wtf_man
 
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:40:
Is kids using electronic devices uniformly considered a bad thing?

Well... in that particular situation, I would hope that I would have already figured out how to control the child. Then there most likely wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

However, I probably would have approached the situation more as a reward with the electronics. "You sit here quietly and after we get on the plane and the plane is in the air, I'll let you play with the iPad". I probably would have something else like a children's book or something, to occupy the child until boarding the plane, and waiting for take-off.

So, IMO electronics are only bad if you are using them as a babysitter or pacifier. I think they are wonderful as a reward. But that could go for just about anything, not just electronics. It depends on what the child is interested in... holding back the "most interesting item" as the reward item.

EDIT: Oh, and a big mistake I see many parents make... one has to stick with what they said. If the child didn't do as they were told... you don't just give them the iPad anyway. As a matter of fact I wouldn't let them play with it for the whole day. One needs to reinforce "I mean what I say, and you will obey". After a while they catch on that you won't put up with their shit, and become much more manageable.

This comment was edited on Jun 4, 2012, 14:03.
 
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25. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:49 SpectralMeat
 
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:40:
Is kids using electronic devices uniformly considered a bad thing?
I personally don't think it is, with moderation. My wife thinks the opposite however, she doesn't want any electronics Nintendo etc for our kids yet. I let my kids watch TV, play on the iPad, or watch youtube videos for a certain amount of time and only if they get their chores done.
I do not use those electronics however as a baby sitter. For example they do not watch TV all day but they can watch a cartoon or 2 before bed time if they were behaving all day.
We have a white board in the Kitchen area and we are giving them red and black points for good and bad behavior. If they act up then there's no TV for that day.

I did realize that they are getting a little too addicted to the iPad so I put that away from them for a few weeks.

Gotta play the games with kids
It is very easy to go down the wrong path with them.
 
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24. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:43 Pigeon
 
I can't speak to the actual quality of Siri, but Apple's ads making it look like a product for complete morons probably isn't helping.  
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23. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:40 Verno
 
Fair enough fellas. I agree that proactive is a better approach, the father should have realized he would need to remove a perceived toy in pre-flight prep and avoided the situation. Ideally you'd try to reinforce in your child that throwing a fit isn't an appropriate response to losing a toy but unfortunately in some things kids are just kids. Having a kid on a plane is a recipe for acting out as it is, lots of unknown people in a strange situation for a child.

Is kids using electronic devices uniformly considered a bad thing? We don't have a boy so we don't have that problem (yet), ours is mainly concerned with animals, riding her bike and Dora the Explorer books. She doesn't have a computer or anything silly like that, we'll wait until shes older and understands time limits and whatnot. I'm interested in others thoughts about this though.
 
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22. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:28 wtf_man
 
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:17:
It would be great if you could just throw discipline at every problem but some things take time, explanation and patience too. Parenting is a toolset, you don't throw the hammer at every problem.

Sure... I get what you are saying. My point was more towards being proactive, than actual discipline. But I also believe one has to start early, at being proactive. One can't wait until the kid is 5 years old to start figuring out how to control him / her.
 
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21. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:25 SpectralMeat
 
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 12:54:
You see a video with an annoying child on a plane and assume shitty parent. Hey, maybe the parent is an idiot. Often times though you don't get the background and context, that's all I'm saying.

That is true Verno, but this time from that article you got the whole picture and how his dad reacted. It was pretty obvious he spoils his son to no end which is why he acted the way he did.

I have 2 boys 3 and 5 year olds and I know exactly the challenges and the amount of work it takes, and I totally agree with wtf_man a lot of people just choose the easy way. "Here is a tablet or laptop or TV or whatever to keep you entertained just shut up." It is so much easier then spend some time with your kids.

My 3 years old has some temper problems also and I've looked into it did some research online, talked to people and now I've learned what to do and how to deal with it, so it doesn't end up in a really embarrassing public outburst.

Verno I know what you are saying but trust me 99% of the time when kids are acting like this one in the article it is their parent's fault.
 
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20. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:17 Verno
 
wtf_man wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 13:01:
Parenting takes work. A lot of people are not up to the task.

Sure, I don't disagree with that. There are many people who should never be a parent. I don't assume every child acting out has a bad parent though because every kid is different. It's how those situations are addressed that is important, acting out itself is pretty common and unremarkable in most children.

It would be great if you could just throw discipline at every problem but some things take time, explanation and patience too. Parenting is a toolset, you don't throw the hammer at every problem.
 
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19. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 13:01 wtf_man
 
Actually Verno, I agree with Cutter... and I have raised a child.

I was raised by a very strict parent.
I was fairly strict with my child as well, and very proactive to thwart any misbehavior.
I was complimented on her behavior a lot, even when she was a toddler.

She is now almost 21 and in the military. I'm fairly confident that between the structure that her grandmother gave her, the structure that I gave her, and the structure that the Military is still giving her... she would probably continue to provide that same structure, if she ever has a child of her own.

Parenting takes work. A lot of people are not up to the task.
 
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18. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:54 Verno
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 12:36:
I call bullshit on that. I know plenty of parents who have their kids incredibly well disciplined. I was one of them myself. My parents never let me get away with that shit in public. No, it always comes down to people being afraid that they're being to hard on the kid and that they'll traumatize them or some bullshit.

Have some kids then we'll talk about it. It's really easy to armchair quarterback parenthood without having a grasp on the complexity involved. Vague childhood memories often don't take into account all of the early life lessons and acting out. I know because I did it for a long time too

I was like you three years ago before I met my GF and her daughter. All I can tell you is that it's a totally different thing than what you think it is and it's incredibly challenging. Discipline isn't a universal solution, in fact often times discipline can feed into attention seeking behavior and cause a child to develop a complex. The fact that you jumped on that told me you have no children because every kid is different. Some respond really well to discipline and some act out more and have to be manipulated/coaxed in a different way.

I get where you're coming from because for much of my life I passed judgment on others parenting. You see a video with an annoying child on a plane and assume shitty parent. Hey, maybe the parent is an idiot. Often times though you don't get the background and context, that's all I'm saying. It is a whole different ballgame in person, some kids are just bratty despite your best efforts and need to grow out of it. It's a guy thing to think that we can fix everything but some things just take time and patience. I say that as someone who is known for being pretty strict in our household by the way.

This comment was edited on Jun 4, 2012, 13:00.
 
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17. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:49 avianflu
 
I am a non-parent but....

if I had a toddler and was going on a plane I would give them a kid-version of over-the-counter antihistamine and then they sleep for 4 hours. No hissy fit and no tantrums. Problem solved for all.




 
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16. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:43 eRe4s3r
 
I still think parenting should require a mandatory exam. Like the driver exam. Parenting is one of the most vital things for humanity as a whole, and lot's of parents (just like lot's of dog owners) completely SUCK at it. Heck I took a 6 week session with professional dog trainers and I think that should be mandatory for every pregnant women and future father in the world. Heck, have the gov pay it for them, as long as they pass it they can have kids. If they fail, the kid gets taken off to foster homes until at least 1 of the parents passes.

I guess that is very insane to even consider nowadays, but I honestly believe it would lead to a better world. A much.. much.. less noisy world too.

And by the way.. Even if not mandatory and even if you disagree to my proposed method.. I think the state should at least teach parenting somehow...

Did anyone ever notice how there is this weird taboo whenever it comes to parenting and how most people suck at it? It's a topic I *never* have seen in media, at ALL. Even if cases of gross negligance come to light, it's always the fault of the mother/father but never the fault of the society that does not TEACH parenting. ... gah

This comment was edited on Jun 4, 2012, 12:54.
 
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15. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:41 wtf_man
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 12:32:
I don't understand how they were unable to strap a seat belt on a 3 year old.

Is the parent trying to play victim at the end?

Reading the linked "NY Daily News" article gives a little more detail. Apparently the kid was laying across the seat / arm rest, to be close to the father (coddled). I'm guessing if they tried to strap him down, he'd start wailing. So since the kid wasn't in the seat belt and sitting upright as required by the FAA... after the plane had taxi'd... the flight attendents asked them to get off the plane and they taxi'd the plane back to the gate.

So yeah... he's trying to play victim. He describes his child as 'being cranky'... which is a huge understatement.
 
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14. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:36 Cutter
 
Verno wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 11:25:
If only it was that easy. Kids act out, its what they do. They push boundaries and don't know how to express their emotions. Every kid is different, some are a lot more "spirited" than others. There is a limit to how much you can discipline a three year old child, its one of those things that actually improves the older they get. As I always tell my girlfriend "little brains". Also there is no manual on parenting man, its a learning experience for everyone. Parents love TVs, ipads and shit like that because kids love distractions and its all most parents can do to retain their sanity

Our three year old threw a fit in a restaurant last week. Recognizing that she was doing it for attention (kids love attention, even negative attention), we immediately removed her from the situation. You don't necessarily have that luxury on airplane or a train, etc.

I call bullshit on that. I know plenty of parents who have their kids incredibly well disciplined. I was one of them myself. My parents never let me get away with that shit in public. No, it always comes down to people being afraid that they're being to hard on the kid and that they'll traumatize them or some bullshit.

At least you were responsible enough to remove your kid. Nothing chafes people quite as much when parents don't do a damn thing. Even in this situation he should have just dragged the kid to the back of the plane to discipline him out of the public eye. If he was anything at all of a halfway decent parent he would have the kid under control and back in his seat inside of 2 minutes. One of my best friends has his kids trained as well as dogs. The moment they start getting out of control he just needs to tell them to sit down and be quiet and they do. Sit Ubu sit! Good dog.
 
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13. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:32 Silicon Avatar
 
I don't understand how they were unable to strap a seat belt on a 3 year old.

Is the parent trying to play victim at the end?

 
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12. Re: Morning Mobilization Jun 4, 2012, 12:14 space captain
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 4, 2012, 10:35:
Kids are just kids, they want to play non stop, however if you as a parent can not control your 3 years old son, then you as a parent fail big time.
Reading the father's comment I can see exactly why the kid is acting the way he does.

the problem is that over 90% of parents cant raise children properly, because they themselves were not raised properly

its passed down the line that way

people may be functional, but most of them get stuck at a toddler-pre-pube level in terms of internal development..

they like to talk about their "inner child" alot.. when that part actually grows up, then you can call yourself a responsible adult... but thats not the "normal" situation at all

the "normal" situation is all fucked up
 
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