On Diablo III Balance Changes

[May 28, 2012, 12:47 pm ET] - Share - Viewing Comments

A Game Design Update on the Diablo III Website speaks of player comments about balance in Blizzard's action/RPG sequel, and offers an overview of their philosophy towards tweaking the game. They offer some statistics on how the game is being played, say the next patch will be mainly to address service issues, and that the version 1.03 patch that will follow will offer their first-post release balance changes. They also go into detail on the issues that play into balancing Inferno mode, and their outlook on that. Here's an overview on patching versus hotfixes for balance:

Regarding the changes to Lingering Fog, Boon of Protection, and Force Armor: we determined these skills were simply more powerful than they should be, and we felt their impact on class balance and how each class was perceived warranted hotfixes as soon as we were able. However, we don't want you to be worried that a hotfix nerf is lurking around the corner every day. If a skill is strong, but isn't really breaking the game, we want you to have your fun. Part of the enjoyment of Diablo is finding those super-strong builds, and we want players to be excited to use something they discovered that feels overpowered. A good example of this is the monk Overawe rune, which many players have identified as being quite good. We agree it's good, but we don't think it's so far out of line that we're going to swoop in and hotfix it out of existence.

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23.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:24

RollinThundr

ItBurn wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:12: Vex wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:07: If anyone is on the fence about this game, I strongly suggest you wait to purchase it. At this point you are paying to beta test the game, which is an insult considering how long the development cycle was. The game has been designed to train you to go to the auction house for your gear. Are you nuts? Sure the game isn't perfect, but it's amazing. I'm going to go with this instead: Buy it right now. Give them money, so that they can continue to make amazing PC games. If by amazing PC games you mean mediocre average games with 10 year old mechanics and pretty cinematics then yes you're spot on. The itemization in D3 sucks and sucks bad. The legendaries are weaker than regular magic items half the time. And the randomization on everything was a bad design call. In fact the game reeks of bad design throughout.

22.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:23

Alamar

Verno wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:21: Oh yeah, where are the ladders anyway? I always had fun ladder rushing in D2. Pretty sure there were comments about no intent to have that kind of thing... Ladders in D2 were just character reset/purge with a race to 99 right? I ask, because while I loved D2 (near launch), it had no long term appeal for me... Not sure I even got past nightmare... Didn't see the point of farming gear, which is why I'm a big supporter of D3's 'progression' style instead : ) -Alamar

21.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:21

Verno

Oh yeah, where are the ladders anyway? I guess since the level cap is low they didn't bother? I always had fun ladder rushing in D2, they should come up with something similar.




Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion

20.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:20

Bucky

ItBurn wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:12: Vex wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:07: If anyone is on the fence about this game, I strongly suggest you wait to purchase it. At this point you are paying to beta test the game, which is an insult considering how long the development cycle was. The game has been designed to train you to go to the auction house for your gear. Are you nuts? Sure the game isn't perfect, but it's amazing. I'm going to go with this instead: Buy it right now. Give them money, so that they can continue to make amazing PC games. +1 I've only bought on the auction house for some 18 DPS weapons for my low level characters, so that I could compare them all at roughly the same stats to get a feel for which one would be my next play through. I've sold a bunch of stuff on the auction house, and I've been slowly chugging my way up the ladder with both crafters. Now I'm going to go play some more.

19.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:12

ItBurn

Vex wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:07: If anyone is on the fence about this game, I strongly suggest you wait to purchase it. At this point you are paying to beta test the game, which is an insult considering how long the development cycle was. The game has been designed to train you to go to the auction house for your gear. Are you nuts? Sure the game isn't perfect, but it's amazing. I'm going to go with this instead: Buy it right now. Give them money, so that they can continue to make amazing PC games.

18.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:09

Alamar

eRe4s3r wrote on May 28, 2012, 14:02: I read somewhere that items always drop below your level, you will never find items above or atyour level unless you play Inferno (apparently ACT4 before that drops like 1 out of 3000 lvl 60 items but nothing beyond that).. That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. How are you supposed to prepare for Inferno when all the loot you need only drops in Inferno? Let's think about this for a second, instead of just spitting out a post... Let's say that in game 'generic RPG with random loot', you need a full set of 12 gear slots filled with <insert current level> gear, and that gear only drops from <insert current level> mobs, but since you need that full set, to get one drop of that full set, you just can't play the game... That is the dumbest design that could be... That is far from what Diablo (1, 2 or 3) does... Instead, in Normal, to beat the last boss, you 'need' an average gear level of about 10 (level - 20)... In later difficulties, the only thing changes is the 20 in that previous equation... But at no point is that 20 ever a 0, including Inferno... My example is simplified, and Inferno confuses people even more so, because each Act has lvl 60 gear, that doesn't have an iLvl of 60, so ignore that part : ) What I do agree with however, is that too much crap gear (both because of stat rolls on items, and level rolls on items) drops... Getting a 'Socketed Ring' at lvl 10 was silly... Getting them dropping with a lvl 50 requirement (no stats, just a socket) is beyond silly... But I mostly feel this way because, while I enjoy running through the game (and this time around, the difficulties), farming bores the piss out of me... I like levelling, and beating harder stuff, but I don't want to (not for 20+ years) run back and forth over the same area trying to 'gear up'... Vex wrote on May 28, 2012, 15:07: If anyone is on the fence about this game, I strongly suggest you wait to purchase it. At this point you are paying to beta test the game, which is an insult considering how long the development cycle was. The game has been designed to train you to go to the auction house for your gear. If anyone is on the fence about this game, I strongly suggest you run out and purchase it. At this point, the game is insanely fun (if you like ARPG's), and if you don't mind the brick wall difficulty increase (after you've had fun for ~50 hours already), the extra challenges are great : ) -Alamar

17.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 15:07

Vex

If anyone is on the fence about this game, I strongly suggest you wait to purchase it. At this point you are paying to beta test the game, which is an insult considering how long the development cycle was. The game has been designed to train you to go to the auction house for your gear.

16.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:59

Alamar

The gem change really makes me want to start a thread titled 'What the fuck are you thinking?'... Since you can take gems out of gear, and re-use them, the gem combining that is going from 3 to 2 gems is nearly useless... Because it stops at the point it should start instead... I actually went through all my gems recently and combined them all to the top level (Just below Square; can't recall the name)... I ended up with about 30 gems, which ended up costing me 90k gold, and 42 pages. If it required 2 gems instead of 3, it would have just cost ~50% more gold/pages (not quite, but you get the idea)... Having an extra ~10 high end gems does what for me? I have like 5 gem slots on my entire character.. /rant... In short, don't combine gems, unless it's one time, for a red gem for your weapon (or Topaz for your Helm, or similiar), and the next higher type just hasn't dropped yet... Up to Flawless Square that is; I don't think they can drop after that. -Alamar

15.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:58

theyarecomingforyou

rkone wrote on May 28, 2012, 14:50:
In WoW you build up your character in a storyless world of thousands of players.
In Diablo you build up your character in a story driven world with no more than 4 players.

I don't think it's really fair to call Diablo III "story driven".




Core i7 2600-K (4.6GHz) \| 12GB DDR3 \| GTX680 SLI (1215/1605) \| OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD \| Windows 8 Pro Hazro HZ30Wie 30" \| Saffire PRO 40 \| Razer Mamba \| Coolermaster RP1000W SteamID: theyarecomingforyou

14.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:50

rkone

Kastagir wrote on May 28, 2012, 14:42 : Though I am admittedly an outsider, having never played either WoW or Diablo 3, but having seen and heard enough about both of them I feel compelled to ask: what's the difference? In WoW you build up your character in a storyless world of thousands of players. In Diablo you build up your character in a story driven world with no more than 4 players.

13.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:43

ItBurn

Kastagir wrote on May 28, 2012, 14:42: Smellfinger wrote on May 28, 2012, 13:33: Sounds more like end game WoW than Diablo. Though I am admittedly an outsider, having never played either WoW or Diablo 3, but having seen and heard enough about both of them I feel compelled to ask: what's the difference? Wow is a chatroom and diablo is a game.

12.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:42

Kastagir

Smellfinger wrote on May 28, 2012, 13:33: Sounds more like end game WoW than Diablo. Though I am admittedly an outsider, having never played either WoW or Diablo 3, but having seen and heard enough about both of them I feel compelled to ask: what's the difference?

11.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:11

Fibrocyte

Acleacius wrote on May 28, 2012, 14:00: Amazing, this has to be one of the lowest AAA title, User Ratings I've ever seen on Metacritic. Due to it being an online-only game, people tried to be heard by flocking to metacritic. So yea, you can't believe those scores. They're mostly posted by idiots.

10.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:02

jdreyer

Smellfinger wrote on May 28, 2012, 13:01:
After watching co-workers play the last couple WoW expansions, Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3, I'm wondering how much of the old Blizzard is still intact. These games are completely lacking that old Blizzard charm.

That happens when you go from a company of 15-20 people (WC2 & SC) to one of hundreds and hundreds.

As for balance issues, it was inevitable. I'm not playing D3, I just refuse to deal with that DRM. But I expect the same thing with TL2. There are 1000s of build combinations, so it will take time to assess them and tweak them.




Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:02

eRe4s3r

I read somewhere that items always drop below your level, you will never find items above or atyour level unless you play Inferno (apparently ACT4 before that drops like 1 out of 3000 lvl 60 items but nothing beyond that).. That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. How are you supposed to prepare for Inferno when all the loot you need only drops in Inferno? And if forum posts are any indication, even finding a level 60 item does not mean it's got stats comparable to a good lvl 30 item. Wow.. ;/ And removing class restricted items REALLY fucks up the whole idea of finding loot thats good for your class. With 5 classes, and very specific needs for classes (assuming that is still the case in D3) you have very low chances to find a decent Item unless you find dozens of golden ones per hour. And even then chances are extremely low.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 14:00

Acleacius

Amazing, this has to be one of the lowest AAA title, User Ratings I've ever seen on Metacritic.




Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history.....and they are stupid. Dwight D. Eisenhower

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 13:33

Smellfinger

Verno wrote on May 28, 2012, 13:21: Yeah, definitely mixed messages there. The whole progression curve is really off in general when it comes to player skills. Most builds and skills work well on Normal/Nightmare but in the later parts of Hell/Inferno there are only a few specific builds with slight variations that work for each class. It goes from being preference to viability in a real hurry. Sounds more like end game WoW than Diablo.

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 13:21

Verno

Sepharo wrote on May 28, 2012, 13:09:
Part of the enjoyment of Diablo is finding those super-strong builds

I thought they were trying to get away from that... Now they're touting it?

Yeah, definitely mixed messages there. The whole progression curve is really off in general when it comes to player skills. Most builds and skills work well on Normal/Nightmare but in the later parts of Hell/Inferno there are only a few specific builds with slight variations that work for each class. It goes from being preference to viability in a real hurry.

And how are they going to make 15% on every transaction in the RMAH if they do that? Gameplay must be subservient to profit, m'boy!

I don't think they are necessarily doing anything untoward with the drops, I think they thought it would flood the AH due to the loot being instanced per player now. I get their logic but unfortunately the game isn't very rewarding when you buy your drops as opposed to find them.




Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 13:09

Sepharo

Part of the enjoyment of Diablo is finding those super-strong builds

I thought they were trying to get away from that... Now they're touting it?




[I'm not trolling I'm just] tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. -TrollinThundr

Re: On Diablo III Balance Changes

May 28, 2012, 13:02

Eirikrautha

Verno wrote on May 28, 2012, 13:00: - better drop rates on sets/uniques/etc, we were swimming in them in D2 which wasn't necessarily good but this is too far in the other direction And how are they going to make 15% on every transaction in the RMAH if they do that? Gameplay must be subservient to profit, m'boy!

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