RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 23:56:
yep lets take that extra tax money that the job creators give us

Cutter wrote on May 24, 2012, 23:28:
Ok, what's the alternative to Obama? Romney? Please. He's the best of a bad bunch of really bad choices. And as for the democrats there seems to be little hope there.

And for the record the GOP is all about class-warfare. The elites/big biz vs. everyone else. That's not to say there aren't democrats who fall under that as well, but that is the main purview of the GOP. When you have guys like Buffet, Gates, et al. coming out and saying that the tax-system is absolutely skewed in their favour you know something is desperately wrong. When Fortune 1000 companies are not only not paying taxes on record profits but getting tax subsidies to boot and not creating jobs or shit jobs that people can't afford to live on, nevermind raise a family or buy a house. And it says nothing of the military-indutrial complex which has been looting the country for the last few decades.

Don't kid youself, when it comes to compromise on budget it's all Democrat. Anything reasonable proposed that amounts to the 1% paying the fair share or cutting waste in the military sector is shot down immediately by the GOP. This isn't just an American problem but happening globally. That's why people are protesting around the globe. We're losing our rights as citizens and consumers and it's much, much bigger problem than abortion, gay marriage and gun control.

Are you opposed to the rich paying their fair share? Shouldn't they have to pay what you pay? Why are they entitled to all manner of tax shelters and loopholes? Why do they keep getting to shift jobs around the globe where they can profit and you can't? It was protectionism/tariffs/free trade and the unions who turned America into the powerhouse it was. Now 70+ years later with free trade and unions dying America is a debtor nation where the quality of life in a first world country has gone from #1 to #28. The proof is in the pudding. All the bullshit and lies they've fed you and keep feeding you is exactly that. They tell you what you want to hear but then do the opposite in practice. You can still get rich in a socialist-democracy you know, you just have to pay your fair share like everyone else and what the hell is wrong with that?

Check out some ideas like the Robin Hood Tax - which is something being proposed around the world right now, not just the US. And keep in mind this is a riduclously small amount being asked for, 50 cents on every $100 stock exchange transaction. Do you think that's greedy or out of line? I sure don't. But maybe you think those poor ol' millionaire and billionaire hedge fund managers and stock brokers need all the help they can get.

http://robinhoodtax.org/

And from a fantastic interview on Bill Moyers.
http://billmoyers.com/segment/roseann-demoro-on-the-robin-hood-tax/

The left HAS been compromising for decades now. Where and when is the right ever going to so?

Fantaz wrote on May 24, 2012, 19:15:
1.2 million copies is a fail? 3 million needed to break even? How were they expecting that?

ASeven wrote on May 24, 2012, 22:30:
I came to see the thread about 38 studios and found a political thread.

This image conveys my feelings right now.

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:44:

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:16:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:02:
The only difference being the GOP tends to not resort to class warfare [...]

According to the GOP "class warfare" is the reasonable call for an increase in taxes. But they've all signed some idiotic pledge to never raise taxes for any reason ever. I LIEK MONEY

Ok let's tax the 1% 100% of their income, and when that isn't enough due to the out of control spending in government what will be the solution? I have no issue with raising taxes. I have issues with the spending that neither party wants to address. That's the problem.

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 22:12:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 22:03:

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:57:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:44:
Ok let's tax the 1% 100% of their income, and when that isn't enough due to the out of control spending in government what will be the solution? I have no issue with raising taxes. I have issues with the spending that neither party wants to address. That's the problem.

Tax the 1% 100% of their income? That's not reasonable.

I have no issue with raising taxes.

Well then you're a reasonable person and didn't sign a pledge saying you would never raise taxes ever. Forget 100%... these guys won't do 0.5%

You're missing the point Seph, you could tax the 1% 100% of their income and it wouldn't even dent the out of control spending.

No you're missing the point. There is a group of unreasonable people who signed a pledge that amounts to "I will not compromise" it's all cuts no revenue raising. It's not like liberals signed a pledge that says "we will never cut spending", they've actually been very accomodating in that regard (too much so for myself). While I appreciate that there are less cops on the road to write me tickets I'm not too excited about my house burning down because of public safety cuts.

Also to address your side point about "it won't make a difference anyway" I can reverse that and say neither will these relatively tiny cuts the GOP wants... Everyone know where the big cut needs to be made but do that and you're labeled weak or unpatriotic or some other silly shit.

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 22:03:

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:57:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:44:
Ok let's tax the 1% 100% of their income, and when that isn't enough due to the out of control spending in government what will be the solution? I have no issue with raising taxes. I have issues with the spending that neither party wants to address. That's the problem.

Tax the 1% 100% of their income? That's not reasonable.

I have no issue with raising taxes.

Well then you're a reasonable person and didn't sign a pledge saying you would never raise taxes ever. Forget 100%... these guys won't do 0.5%

You're missing the point Seph, you could tax the 1% 100% of their income and it wouldn't even dent the out of control spending.

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:57:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:44:

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:16:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:02:
The only difference being the GOP tends to not resort to class warfare [...]

According to the GOP "class warfare" is the reasonable call for an increase in taxes. But they've all signed some idiotic pledge to never raise taxes for any reason ever. I LIEK MONEY

Ok let's tax the 1% 100% of their income, and when that isn't enough due to the out of control spending in government what will be the solution? I have no issue with raising taxes. I have issues with the spending that neither party wants to address. That's the problem.

Tax the 1% 100% of their income? That's not reasonable.

I have no issue with raising taxes.

Well then you're a reasonable person and didn't sign a pledge saying you would never raise taxes ever. Forget 100%... these guys won't do 0.5%

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:32:

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:16:
According to the GOP "class warfare" is the reasonable call for an increase in taxes. But they've all signed some idiotic pledge to never raise taxes for any reason ever. I LIEK MONEY

And that's a problem how? I like money. In fact I try to find new ways to make money so I don't have to worry about making money. And I like my money so much that I want other people to emulate what I do, so they have their own money. What I don't like is the government taking my money and handing off to someone and saying *here you earned this* because of *x* inane reason.

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:44:

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:16:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:02:
The only difference being the GOP tends to not resort to class warfare [...]

According to the GOP "class warfare" is the reasonable call for an increase in taxes. But they've all signed some idiotic pledge to never raise taxes for any reason ever. I LIEK MONEY

Ok let's tax the 1% 100% of their income, and when that isn't enough due to the out of control spending in government what will be the solution? I have no issue with raising taxes. I have issues with the spending that neither party wants to address. That's the problem.

I have no issue with raising taxes.

Fantaz wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:23:

shihonage wrote on May 24, 2012, 20:48:

Dirwulf wrote on May 24, 2012, 20:43:

Keep spreading the lies

Government spending under Obama, including his signature stimulus bill, is rising at a 1.4 percent annualized pace – slower than at any time in nearly 60 years.

"[...] in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying." - Adolf Hitler

Here's a debunk on your debunk:
Rex Nutting is absurd

All it takes is basic understanding of math. The fact that anyone above 5th grade education level would fall for this, is shocking.

So we have two souces of information: a private guy vs. a Wall Street Journal article. The Wall Street people are very interested in spendings because the economy's health depends on it. The private guy is twisting things back and forth, claims that the government's figures a false, that the government is lying. Instead he wants us to check out another guy on Twitter, (10,000 pennies), 'cuz that guy "says the absolute truth"!

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:16:

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:02:
The only difference being the GOP tends to not resort to class warfare [...]

According to the GOP "class warfare" is the reasonable call for an increase in taxes. But they've all signed some idiotic pledge to never raise taxes for any reason ever. I LIEK MONEY

Sepharo wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:16:
According to the GOP "class warfare" is the reasonable call for an increase in taxes. But they've all signed some idiotic pledge to never raise taxes for any reason ever. I LIEK MONEY

shihonage wrote on May 24, 2012, 20:48:

Dirwulf wrote on May 24, 2012, 20:43:

Keep spreading the lies

Government spending under Obama, including his signature stimulus bill, is rising at a 1.4 percent annualized pace – slower than at any time in nearly 60 years.

"[...] in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying." - Adolf Hitler

Here's a debunk on your debunk:
Rex Nutting is absurd

All it takes is basic understanding of math. The fact that anyone above 5th grade education level would fall for this, is shocking.

RollinThundr wrote on May 24, 2012, 21:02:
The only difference being the GOP tends to not resort to class warfare [...]

Dirwulf wrote on May 24, 2012, 20:48:

Cutter wrote on May 24, 2012, 20:43:
Obama has failed as a president. As badly as Bush? Not even close. He ineherited the worst all-around mess of any president in history. He had a mandate to lead and he failed. However there's no winning with the extreme-right because they'll never let the facts stand in the way of what they believe. Obnoxious, ignorant, and LOUD describes them best. Regardless of any of his shortcomings it's not his fault that big-business headed by republicans refuse to create decent paying jobs at home. If he was to force them then the right-wing would be screaming about how this godless commie liberal hates the free-market. He could walk on water and they'd scream about how he's too good to get his feet wet. There's just no winning with them at all.

Personally, I don't think that America will last, or most other major nations for that matter. The divide between left, right, and centrist just seems to be getting more entrenched and divisive all the time. America, Canada, France, etc. are all seeing virtual 50% splits down the middle politically speaking and any form of real bi-partisanship seems all but impossible now. If that's really the case then it's for the best if we split up. Go back to the city-state model or a loose confedation of states/provinces.

Oh crap...I agree with Cutter...