19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 19. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 11:00 |
Beamer |
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InBlack wrote on May 23, 2012, 09:32:
Beamer wrote on May 22, 2012, 13:37:
I dunno, there are ways to look at it:
- I see no evidence of "slave labor"
- Yes, I agree, they were bringing in huge money and should have been coddled, but at the same time they were employees. Any employee hanging up the phone on their boss is going to be in a world of hurt
- The E3 demo was a contractual thing with Microsoft. Missing that would jeopardize millions of dollars Microsoft was paying towards the development. I'd say yes, if you promise a 3rd party you'd have an E3 demo ready for them in exchange for millions of dollars then your game would be worse without it
- I don't see the T-Shirt point, but that's weird because Activision should be the ones making the shirts, just using stuff the art department had already designed
Still playing the devil's advocate on this Beamer? Even after Activision settled out of court? Doesnt that tell you something?
Yes, that they still owed some of the bonus money.
I don't see how that relates to what you quoted. Was the law suit about slave labor? Was it about whether they were properly fired for failing to deliver milestones promised to Microsoft?
No, it was about the timing of the firing related to the bonus money owed. |
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| 18. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 10:58 |
Beamer |
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nin wrote on May 23, 2012, 09:51:
InBlack wrote on May 23, 2012, 09:33:
LittleMe wrote on May 23, 2012, 00:35:
Smellfinger wrote on May 22, 2012, 20:01:
Rich assholes vs. rich assholes: Whoever wins, we all lose.
Says Carl Marx?
Says the 99%, quit brining the 'boogeyman' into every argument about rich vs poor.
Is Carl Karl's brother or something?
Whatever, if game of thrones has taught me anything they'd both get their asses kicked by Carl Drago. |
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| 17. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 10:42 |
Verno |
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Dmitri_M wrote on May 23, 2012, 10:25:
Tumbler wrote on May 22, 2012, 12:55:
To me this underscores the need for unions in this industry. There's a whole host of "new" tech related fields that need to be unionized. Especially on the art end.
This is really a problem in general, the rate of unionized employment is something like 15% these days in North America when it was higher than 50% just a few decades ago. The power of the corporation keeps increasing which isn't necessarily bad but unfortunately with the employment situation being so dire workers rights often just trampled all over.
The unions themselves haven't been much help either, they're often fighting for older worker pensions and ignoring their younger base. They also seem to think they can still strong arm companies as if this was the pre-Regan era which results in huge battles with companies and an unsympathic/hostile public attitude due to poor PR. Corporations will often fire hundreds of workers at the whiff of union formation and public opinion rarely sides with the workers anymore. |
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F
Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 16. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 10:31 |
Pete |
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| Like a screen actors guild type of thing. |
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| 15. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 10:25 |
Dmitri_M |
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Tumbler wrote on May 22, 2012, 12:55:
To me this underscores the need for unions in this industry. There's a whole host of "new" tech related fields that need to be unionized. Especially on the art end. |
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| 14. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 09:51 |
nin |
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InBlack wrote on May 23, 2012, 09:33:
LittleMe wrote on May 23, 2012, 00:35:
Smellfinger wrote on May 22, 2012, 20:01:
Rich assholes vs. rich assholes: Whoever wins, we all lose.
Says Carl Marx?
Says the 99%, quit brining the 'boogeyman' into every argument about rich vs poor.
Is Carl Karl's brother or something?
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RollinThundr Apr 17, 2013, 12:25: Eh really tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. If you really want to call that trolling sure.
Mr. Tact Apr 17, 2013, 12:33: Pretty sure that's the definition of trolling... |
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| 13. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 09:33 |
InBlack |
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LittleMe wrote on May 23, 2012, 00:35:
Smellfinger wrote on May 22, 2012, 20:01:
Rich assholes vs. rich assholes: Whoever wins, we all lose.
Says Carl Marx?
Says the 99%, quit brining the 'boogeyman' into every argument about rich vs poor. |
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| I have a nifty blue line! |
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| 12. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 09:32 |
InBlack |
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Beamer wrote on May 22, 2012, 13:37:
I dunno, there are ways to look at it:
- I see no evidence of "slave labor"
- Yes, I agree, they were bringing in huge money and should have been coddled, but at the same time they were employees. Any employee hanging up the phone on their boss is going to be in a world of hurt
- The E3 demo was a contractual thing with Microsoft. Missing that would jeopardize millions of dollars Microsoft was paying towards the development. I'd say yes, if you promise a 3rd party you'd have an E3 demo ready for them in exchange for millions of dollars then your game would be worse without it
- I don't see the T-Shirt point, but that's weird because Activision should be the ones making the shirts, just using stuff the art department had already designed
Still playing the devil's advocate on this Beamer? Even after Activision settled out of court? Doesnt that tell you something?
This comment was edited on May 23, 2012, 10:00. |
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| I have a nifty blue line! |
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| 11. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 08:40 |
Veterator |
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Activisions, and specifically Kotick's attitude toward gamers and people in general through his press releases and statements pretty much guarantees my siding with anyone who opposes him in his own company.
You just know anyone whose like Kotick treats everyone under them like dirt. And the fact that these guys made so much money probably only amplified that treatment. As soon as they figured out the "formula" Activision would have booted these guys, it's the only way they can reduce costs and put more into their pockets at some point...like all companies.
And if I were working somewhere where they treated me like shit and were all bi-polar with their changes on the product Im working on, I'd be really pissed if I was "let go"/fired/whatever and they still owed me 100 bucks. So imagine if they owed you a few thousand, and keep on going up in to the couple 10 million range. See how that sits with you after you've just had a bunch of guys making your work life suck balls who then throw you out while they owe you significant money.
Poor slob working men, hell being ripped off a thousand bucks has resulted in murder......few million...that's like scorched earth response for the regular joe.
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| 10. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 08:28 |
ASeven |
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| What a mess. I know that the court transcripts when the trial begins should be very interesting to read. |
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| 8. |
Re: etc. |
May 23, 2012, 00:35 |
LittleMe |
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Smellfinger wrote on May 22, 2012, 20:01:
Rich assholes vs. rich assholes: Whoever wins, we all lose.
Says Carl Marx?
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| Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom. |
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| 7. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 20:01 |
Smellfinger |
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| Rich assholes vs. rich assholes: Whoever wins, we all lose. |
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| 6. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 17:05 |
xXBatmanXx |
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Beamer wrote on May 22, 2012, 16:14:
Dev wrote on May 22, 2012, 16:04:
They were fired because of the $32 million they were going to get in 2010.
I think that's just the straw. It's stupidly short-sighted to fire the gooses laying the golden egg because of an upcoming royalties payment, but it's good timing to fire two people that are more trouble than they're worth before a royalty payment.
It doesn't seem like Activision ditched them because of the royalty payment, they ditched them because they were no longer worth the royalty payment.
Still dickish, but it sounds like they needed to go, anyway. In the long run they'll be much better for it, barring that $16 million, but if they're as good as they think they are they'll make much more than that on their own IP.
Did they deliver a product? Yes. Then they deserve the payment. Which is what the lawsuit was about. |
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: RL |
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| 5. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 16:14 |
Beamer |
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Dev wrote on May 22, 2012, 16:04:
They were fired because of the $32 million they were going to get in 2010.
I think that's just the straw. It's stupidly short-sighted to fire the gooses laying the golden egg because of an upcoming royalties payment, but it's good timing to fire two people that are more trouble than they're worth before a royalty payment.
It doesn't seem like Activision ditched them because of the royalty payment, they ditched them because they were no longer worth the royalty payment.
Still dickish, but it sounds like they needed to go, anyway. In the long run they'll be much better for it, barring that $16 million, but if they're as good as they think they are they'll make much more than that on their own IP. |
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| 4. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 16:04 |
Dev |
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| They were fired because of the $32 million they were going to get in 2010. |
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| 3. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 15:39 |
Cutter |
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Tumbler wrote on May 22, 2012, 12:55:
Do any of the pc gamers who railed against Infinity Ward and West and Zamp feel any shame at this point? You're complaining that those two were in some sort of anti-PC conspiracy to screw up the MW2 PC version to mess with PC gamers and it's turning out that the heads of Activision were a bunch of fucking morons sticking their fingers in everything?
I don't think anyone really gives a shit about either side. We all have our own problems economic problems that are substantially greater than either of them. We all have to live with making what the market thinks we're worth and so should they - less in fact because they're all overpaid anyway.
And maybe most of the guys in the trenches who don't stand to make jack beyond salary need unions but the leads who have bonuses tied to the games don't. These guys really aren't that hard done by and no one is forcing them to do the work. Besides, many of them do so only once anyway just so they can throw it on a resume.
This is why I don't buy these shitty games or buy into this soap-opera drivel. They got problems? Boo fucking hoo. They don't know what real problems are.
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| "Peter, breakfast for dinner is anarchy!" - Lois |
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| 2. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 13:37 |
Beamer |
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I dunno, there are ways to look at it:
- I see no evidence of "slave labor"
- Yes, I agree, they were bringing in huge money and should have been coddled, but at the same time they were employees. Any employee hanging up the phone on their boss is going to be in a world of hurt
- The E3 demo was a contractual thing with Microsoft. Missing that would jeopardize millions of dollars Microsoft was paying towards the development. I'd say yes, if you promise a 3rd party you'd have an E3 demo ready for them in exchange for millions of dollars then your game would be worse without it
- I don't see the T-Shirt point, but that's weird because Activision should be the ones making the shirts, just using stuff the art department had already designed
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| 1. |
Re: etc. |
May 22, 2012, 12:55 |
Tumbler |
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"Msft [Microsoft] will go ballistic over this and the deal is seriously risked," he wrote. Griffith, former president of Activision Publishing, then calls up the pair to discuss a new strategy for the deal, and follows up, "They hung up on me," to which Kotick answers, "If they really did I would change their locks and lock them out of their building."
To me this underscores the need for unions in this industry. The Call of Duty Developers have got to be the most profitable, popular devs in the industry at this point (early stages of MW2 development) and yet Activision still wants to treat them like slave labor laying demands on them and then firing them if they don't obey.
You'd think a company making so much money off a studio like this would be content to let them work as they see fit as long as they meet the release date but this communication seems like they were trying to shove marketing priorities in front of everything else. Does anyone think for a second that MW2 would have been worse off without an E3 demo? It's kind of petty to be so worried about being in a MS e3 press conference when you fucking MODERN WARFARE 2. We need to make T-Shirts!!! Gamestop will give us $15 per shirt, stop everything you're doing and make t-shirts!!! You can finish the game later!!!! We gotta get that money!!! Ford wants to sponsor us, we need to redesign this level so the player is driving a Ford Truck instead of a Humvee, fucking do it you assholes! I'm the boss here!
Do any of the pc gamers who railed against Infinity Ward and West and Zamp feel any shame at this point? You're complaining that those two were in some sort of anti-PC conspiracy to screw up the MW2 PC version to mess with PC gamers and it's turning out that the heads of Activision were a bunch of fucking morons sticking their fingers in everything? |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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