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Op Ed

Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Why The Problem With Diablo Isn’t Diablo.
We have to demand a standard of quality and dedication from these things. If we try to paint complaints about Diablo III’s loudly reverberating server-side-down bellyflop as entirely immature, wrong, and entitled, we’re basically saying, “Look, everyone else! We’re totally OK with this.” I mean, Diablo III’s almost assuredly sold millions of units by this point. If widespread rage then proves relatively short-lived, I have to imagine that looks like pretty much all upside to, say, Tim Willits or even devs/pubs whose intentions aren’t quite so benevolent or design-focused. Piggy banks are happy, and customers are happy. What more do you need?

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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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44. Re: Op Ed May 19, 2012, 08:47 StingingVelvet
 
Bhruic wrote on May 19, 2012, 04:48:
It didn't get that from working, it got that from having positives that outweighed negatives. If games can offer enough positives to having an online requirement to offset that negative, they might start being appreciated as well - indeed, that's the reason people are tolerant of them for MMOs. The advantages of the MMO environment outweigh the fact you can only play it online.

So far, there's no real gain to online requirements for games that are perceived as single player. Whether they can manage to provide such a benefit remains to be seen.

Every benefit to Steam DRM would work fine as an option... during install choose to run the game without Steam DRM free or use the online features. They basically get away with forcing the DRM on you by making you perceive it as needed, even if it really isn't. Same for Diablo 3, they could have offline characters just like Diablo 2.

So I guess you're right, but in the sense they have to sell that, not really provide it.
 
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43. Re: Op Ed May 19, 2012, 05:36 Jerykk
 
If Diablo 3 had a smooth launch I doubt anyone would care about the requirement other than weirdos like me who care about game preservation.

The majority of people, sure. But players who don't have reliable access to the net or have very limited bandwidth would still care about being forced to play their single-player game online.
 
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42. Re: Op Ed May 19, 2012, 04:48 Bhruic
 
I'm not saying otherwise, I am just saying something hated and broken started getting loved and appreciated as soon as it started working.

It didn't get that from working, it got that from having positives that outweighed negatives. If games can offer enough positives to having an online requirement to offset that negative, they might start being appreciated as well - indeed, that's the reason people are tolerant of them for MMOs. The advantages of the MMO environment outweigh the fact you can only play it online.

So far, there's no real gain to online requirements for games that are perceived as single player. Whether they can manage to provide such a benefit remains to be seen.
 
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41. Re: Op Ed May 19, 2012, 04:36 StingingVelvet
 
Dades wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:34:
And when Half Life 2 came out everyone HATED Steam, both the service and in principle, but now it is the savior of PC gaming.

Of course, the market was tanking and devs were jumping ship to the consoles and publishers were starting to waver on PC support. Steam solidified a new distribution method that made the market more accessible and affordable. I think it really did save PC gaming, no one else was stepping up to the plate any time soon.

I'm not saying otherwise, I am just saying something hated and broken started getting loved and appreciated as soon as it started working. If Diablo 3 had a smooth launch I doubt anyone would care about the requirement other than weirdos like me who care about game preservation.

Similarly I bet the next console gen has a Steam-like DRM system of some kind, and while I bet a lot of articles and forum posts are written about how horrible that is as long as it works the mass market will not give a shit.
 
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40. Re: Op Ed May 19, 2012, 02:12 eunichron
 
FYI Bat, if you're a magic find whore, you can load up your companions with magic find and a portion of it counts towards your character's magic find.  
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39. Re: Op Ed May 19, 2012, 02:03 xXBatmanXx
 
Flatline wrote on May 18, 2012, 21:16:
panbient wrote on May 18, 2012, 20:20:
Flatline wrote on May 18, 2012, 19:03:
I dunno what the hell was up but even the gold drops felt anemic. It took half an hour of playing at the end of act 1 to get a thousand gold. I would have expected drops around 20-50 gold by the end of act one, but I was still getting mostly 1-5 gold per drop. As I said, fucking MMO drop rates.

I'm assuming you play solo because in a group you most definitely get the kind of gold drops you expect (magic items is still spotty). I've played through most of Act1 three times now (I like testing out the classes) and I've made around 50k in gold.

And now I start up character #4

Actually my friend was watching me play and was boggled. He's playing as a demon hunter and was getting drastically better drop rates. Like, an order of magnitude better.

Have 5 characters running, all between level 5 and 20. Then I started a Harcore Barb. I have my magic drop on at least 2 characters to +50%ish, and get damn good drops. Last time through the Butcher with a new character I got 3 rares. Not a big deal, won't use them in a bit, but I like saving a nice rare total set for a new character. About 30 hours in the game total.
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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38. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 21:19 Flatline
 
LArac wrote on May 18, 2012, 19:35:
My main issues are that the game seems unpolished, having to pull crafting stuff out of the Bank to craft, Gems having white text on the ground like normal items.

Things like this feel like it was not produced by Vets but a first time studio.

The server side issues are more CEO money grabbing, but do hurt the game.

Lee

It essentially was developed by a first time studio, with Blizzard's name and funding behind it. It does feel like a circa-2007 game however. It's odd. It's like Blizzard went into a time warp when WoW came out and they stopped pushing. Starcraft 2 was a graphical overhaul of SC1, and the graphics were moderately improved, and Diablo 3 looks like something state of the art 5 years ago. In both cases, gameplay has either stagnated or regressed (I am not a fan of the skill system they've set up at all. It's a major pain in the ass trying to set yourself up according to the situation you're in, so it's easier to just configure yourself as something sub-optimal but close enough and never change).
 
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37. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 21:16 Flatline
 
panbient wrote on May 18, 2012, 20:20:
Flatline wrote on May 18, 2012, 19:03:
I dunno what the hell was up but even the gold drops felt anemic. It took half an hour of playing at the end of act 1 to get a thousand gold. I would have expected drops around 20-50 gold by the end of act one, but I was still getting mostly 1-5 gold per drop. As I said, fucking MMO drop rates.

I'm assuming you play solo because in a group you most definitely get the kind of gold drops you expect (magic items is still spotty). I've played through most of Act1 three times now (I like testing out the classes) and I've made around 50k in gold.

And now I start up character #4

Actually my friend was watching me play and was boggled. He's playing as a demon hunter and was getting drastically better drop rates. Like, an order of magnitude better.
 
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36. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 20:20 panbient
 
Flatline wrote on May 18, 2012, 19:03:
I dunno what the hell was up but even the gold drops felt anemic. It took half an hour of playing at the end of act 1 to get a thousand gold. I would have expected drops around 20-50 gold by the end of act one, but I was still getting mostly 1-5 gold per drop. As I said, fucking MMO drop rates.

I'm assuming you play solo because in a group you most definitely get the kind of gold drops you expect (magic items is still spotty). I've played through most of Act1 three times now (I like testing out the classes) and I've made around 50k in gold.

And now I start up character #4
 
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35. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 19:35 LArac
 
My main issues are that the game seems unpolished, having to pull crafting stuff out of the Bank to craft, Gems having white text on the ground like normal items.

Things like this feel like it was not produced by Vets but a first time studio.

The server side issues are more CEO money grabbing, but do hurt the game.

Lee
 
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34. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 19:06 Flatline
 
Slashman wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:52:
xXBatmanXx wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:07:
One thing that interests me is more info behind this "lag". I had 1 rubber band issue for a split second that was more funny than anything, but 23 hours in 3 days is pretty solid. My pc is 5 years old, running a dual core with a 8800 640MB card. I by no means have a machine to the caliber that most have my settings are all med or high.

I wonder where the bottle neck is? I live in MPLS so my pipe for the 'nets is HUGE. In 7 years at my current place, I think I was without 'nets for MAYBE an hour total. So what is the problem? Am I just lucky? Do I play at odd times (23 hours in 3 days, I was all over the place). What is it?

They are early out of the gate, and I look forward to knowing more. If it didn't work, I would be pretty bummed, that is for sure.

Nice posts Creston and others. The conversations are getting good.

The lag isn't going to affect people with great connections. That it will affect people with spotty connections is a given.

Most of the people who are saying they have smooth play are people who have decent connections. Broadband in the US is pretty widespread and easy to get. I can only imagine what the game is like for people who live in areas where they literally cannot get a decent connection consistently.

I'd probably be able to play it decently, but even though I have an OK connection where I live, there are people not too far from me who have crappy internet and have no real alternative(I live on a small island).

In the end, there is absolutely no real reason to not have an offline mode.

I was getting noticeable lag on a 15mbps down 2 up connection. It was running around 350 ms and was showing yellow on the connection meter. I'd rubber band at least once or twice a minute, bad guys would spontaneously explode because my hireling would run over and kill it during the lag.
 
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33. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 19:03 Flatline
 
It's kind of sad that I didn't get in on the beta of D3. I finally got to play it and find it... underwhelming.

The loot treadmill feels more like an MMO than Diablo (I went through 4/5 of act one with a single weapon as a barbarian. They dropped a 20dps sword in the first 5 minutes and I kept it an hour into act 2).

I dunno what the hell was up but even the gold drops felt anemic. It took half an hour of playing at the end of act 1 to get a thousand gold. I would have expected drops around 20-50 gold by the end of act one, but I was still getting mostly 1-5 gold per drop. As I said, fucking MMO drop rates.

The graphics actually look really, really muddy and the detail in the landscape looks lost in generic, brown squiggles. Running back and forth to pick up gold is boring, I keep hitting the z key to pick everything up automatically, but that doesn't work. Instead, you waste valuable magic item slots on gold pickup radius buffs.

I miss the sprint key. I know there's a sprint function someone has but... I miss the sprint key.

The graphics seem... I dunno... some of the art is pretty, some of it feels dated as all hell.

The physics are beyond cartoonish. My barbarian swings an axe and a fountain of gore sprays 50 yards away, flinging corpses back 100 feet with each many swing... it's really jarring actually.

I dunno... I've played enough diablo-style games now (including boarderlands) that this feels... dated...
 
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32. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 18:51 Pigeon
 
Creston wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:47:
xXBatmanXx wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:07:
Creston wrote on May 18, 2012, 16:58:
So far, always-online DRM is only getting worse. At least when Ubi's servers were up (for those few minutes a week), you could play without any hitches. Ask the people who are suffering lag out the ass how their play is going when the servers are up.

Creston

One thing that interests me is more info behind this "lag". I had 1 rubber band issue for a split second that was more funny than anything, but 23 hours in 3 days is pretty solid. My pc is 5 years old, running a dual core with a 8800 640MB card. I by no means have a machine to the caliber that most have my settings are all med or high.

I wonder where the bottle neck is? I live in MPLS so my pipe for the 'nets is HUGE. In 7 years at my current place, I think I was without 'nets for MAYBE an hour total. So what is the problem? Am I just lucky? Do I play at odd times (23 hours in 3 days, I was all over the place). What is it?

They are early out of the gate, and I look forward to knowing more. If it didn't work, I would be pretty bummed, that is for sure.

Nice posts Creston and others. The conversations are getting good.

Kind of hard for me to argue one way or the other, since obviously I don't have the game, but it seems like D3 can easily swamp lesser connections. If you've got FTTH you'll likely hardly ever or never see lag. But if you've got a 100 ping and a few megabits worth of pipe, it's likely it may be flooding you at certain points and you're going to experience rubber banding until it catches up.

Either that or Blizzard's servers just can't handle the massive volume of people trying to play, and they're struggling to keep supplying the data. In which case you have, indeed, just gotten lucky.

Creston

Anyone have a way to log how much bandwidth D3 uses? If you could compare it to other multi-player games that should give an indication of if D3 is a bandwidth hog or if there are other issues causing people's lag. I'm willing to bet its blizz's servers or something else. I know some people with good connections would have issues with WoW because their IPs would tag WoW as a file sharing program, and they'd block some of the ports WoW used. Or something to that effect.
 
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31. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 17:52 Slashman
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:07:
One thing that interests me is more info behind this "lag". I had 1 rubber band issue for a split second that was more funny than anything, but 23 hours in 3 days is pretty solid. My pc is 5 years old, running a dual core with a 8800 640MB card. I by no means have a machine to the caliber that most have my settings are all med or high.

I wonder where the bottle neck is? I live in MPLS so my pipe for the 'nets is HUGE. In 7 years at my current place, I think I was without 'nets for MAYBE an hour total. So what is the problem? Am I just lucky? Do I play at odd times (23 hours in 3 days, I was all over the place). What is it?

They are early out of the gate, and I look forward to knowing more. If it didn't work, I would be pretty bummed, that is for sure.

Nice posts Creston and others. The conversations are getting good.

The lag isn't going to affect people with great connections. That it will affect people with spotty connections is a given.

Most of the people who are saying they have smooth play are people who have decent connections. Broadband in the US is pretty widespread and easy to get. I can only imagine what the game is like for people who live in areas where they literally cannot get a decent connection consistently.

I'd probably be able to play it decently, but even though I have an OK connection where I live, there are people not too far from me who have crappy internet and have no real alternative(I live on a small island).

In the end, there is absolutely no real reason to not have an offline mode.
 
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30. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 17:47 Creston
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on May 18, 2012, 17:07:
Creston wrote on May 18, 2012, 16:58:
So far, always-online DRM is only getting worse. At least when Ubi's servers were up (for those few minutes a week), you could play without any hitches. Ask the people who are suffering lag out the ass how their play is going when the servers are up.

Creston

One thing that interests me is more info behind this "lag". I had 1 rubber band issue for a split second that was more funny than anything, but 23 hours in 3 days is pretty solid. My pc is 5 years old, running a dual core with a 8800 640MB card. I by no means have a machine to the caliber that most have my settings are all med or high.

I wonder where the bottle neck is? I live in MPLS so my pipe for the 'nets is HUGE. In 7 years at my current place, I think I was without 'nets for MAYBE an hour total. So what is the problem? Am I just lucky? Do I play at odd times (23 hours in 3 days, I was all over the place). What is it?

They are early out of the gate, and I look forward to knowing more. If it didn't work, I would be pretty bummed, that is for sure.

Nice posts Creston and others. The conversations are getting good.

Kind of hard for me to argue one way or the other, since obviously I don't have the game, but it seems like D3 can easily swamp lesser connections. If you've got FTTH you'll likely hardly ever or never see lag. But if you've got a 100 ping and a few megabits worth of pipe, it's likely it may be flooding you at certain points and you're going to experience rubber banding until it catches up.

Either that or Blizzard's servers just can't handle the massive volume of people trying to play, and they're struggling to keep supplying the data. In which case you have, indeed, just gotten lucky.

Creston
 
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29. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 17:34 Dades
 
And when Half Life 2 came out everyone HATED Steam, both the service and in principle, but now it is the savior of PC gaming.

Of course, the market was tanking and devs were jumping ship to the consoles and publishers were starting to waver on PC support. Steam solidified a new distribution method that made the market more accessible and affordable. I think it really did save PC gaming, no one else was stepping up to the plate any time soon.
 
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28. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 17:20 Draugr
 
space captain wrote on May 18, 2012, 16:18:
Draugr wrote on May 18, 2012, 14:42:

Unconscious is what you mean. Subconscious isn't really a thing, just a common misnomer by the layperson which usually shows how little one actually knows on the subject.

no i mean subconscious, especially to bait asshole know-it-alls like yourself

your pretentious posturing doesnt indicate knowledge of psychology, and furthermore your arguments display a basic lack of logical reasoning ability in favor of being "the winner" by advancing flawed straw-man postulations

go ahead and enjoy your self-imagined superior understanding of this topic, you have my permission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subconscious


But please, if you did indeed mean subconcious, define the term since there really isn't an accepted definition (unless its used as it's popular misconception.)
I didn't disagree with anything you said, Beyond me disputing that subconscious isn't a real term, and is usually used to indicate the unconcious by someone (as you yourself did.)
You can deny it all you want, but these are facts. You may consider it pretentious, but you saying subconscious isn't doing you any favors in what might otherwise be a good point. You can consider me saying that someone using the term subconscious makes them look dumb as strawman, but I would say when anyone would uses a word inappropriately, it makes them look foolish.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 17:07 xXBatmanXx
 
Creston wrote on May 18, 2012, 16:58:
So far, always-online DRM is only getting worse. At least when Ubi's servers were up (for those few minutes a week), you could play without any hitches. Ask the people who are suffering lag out the ass how their play is going when the servers are up.

Creston

One thing that interests me is more info behind this "lag". I had 1 rubber band issue for a split second that was more funny than anything, but 23 hours in 3 days is pretty solid. My pc is 5 years old, running a dual core with a 8800 640MB card. I by no means have a machine to the caliber that most have my settings are all med or high.

I wonder where the bottle neck is? I live in MPLS so my pipe for the 'nets is HUGE. In 7 years at my current place, I think I was without 'nets for MAYBE an hour total. So what is the problem? Am I just lucky? Do I play at odd times (23 hours in 3 days, I was all over the place). What is it?

They are early out of the gate, and I look forward to knowing more. If it didn't work, I would be pretty bummed, that is for sure.

Nice posts Creston and others. The conversations are getting good.
 
Avatar 10714
 
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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26. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 16:58 Creston
 
StingingVelvet wrote on May 18, 2012, 15:46:
Creston wrote on May 18, 2012, 11:47:
It's the exact same thing they did with the initial DRM. Everyone fucking HATED the Securom bullshit with limited activations and having to talk to a server etc etc. And now when a game has that, it's considered "mild DRM."

And when Half Life 2 came out everyone HATED Steam, both the service and in principle, but now it is the savior of PC gaming.

That is a somewhat fair point, but Steam has gotten a TON better over the years, and without Steam the whole idea of "I'll just buy it when it's on sale" really wouldn't be such a phenomenon as it is now. So while Steam initially was fucking shit, it improved its product enough to the point where people wanted to use it.

So far, always-online DRM is only getting worse. At least when Ubi's servers were up (for those few minutes a week), you could play without any hitches. Ask the people who are suffering lag out the ass how their play is going when the servers are up.

In the end I think DRM only annoys most people when it doesn't work, frankly. If you just put the serial in and play no one really gives a shit, no one thinks of the long term issues. Diablo 3 is getting bad press because the DRM broke the game at release. If it didn't, no one would complain outside some hardcore DRM haters.

Diablo 3 is getting bad press? Where? All I see is articles that say "yeah, it's annoying the servers are down and I have to replay stuff when my connec.... IT'S DIABLO AND I HAVE SO MUCH FUN CLICKING STUFF!"

Today's article on RPS about it is about the first genuinely negative article I've seen, that doesn't devolve into yet another Blizzard strokefest two paragraphs in.

Creston
 
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25. Re: Op Ed May 18, 2012, 16:18 space captain
 
Draugr wrote on May 18, 2012, 14:42:

Unconscious is what you mean. Subconscious isn't really a thing, just a common misnomer by the layperson which usually shows how little one actually knows on the subject.

no i mean subconscious, especially to bait asshole know-it-alls like yourself

your pretentious posturing doesnt indicate knowledge of psychology, and furthermore your arguments display a basic lack of logical reasoning ability in favor of being "the winner" by advancing flawed straw-man postulations

go ahead and enjoy your self-imagined superior understanding of this topic, you have my permission
 
Go forth, and kill!
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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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