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Sunday Tech Bits

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38. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 15, 2012, 08:45 Verno
 
48.5 pounds for a 42" LCD? Whoa, I forgot how heavy those "old" ones were. It's amazing how quickly things move along in just a few years.  
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37. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 20:50 Sepharo
 
Hey TV experts rate my TV:

Sharp Aquos LC C4254U

Specs I found at cnet reviews

It's over 3 years old now.
 
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36. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 19:51 Prez
 
Not being one who ever cared about the differences between TVs beyond what had the best picture at an affordable price, I couldn't say what kind of TV's the 3 I own are after finishing the article. So I went and looked. In my house I have 2 plasmas and an LCD. For the record I like the picture quality of the Plasmas better.  
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35. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 18:52 eRe4s3r
 
To be honest the "half brightness decay" is really a non issue because you would NEVER run at 100% brightness with an OLED unless you want the literal in-your-eye burn-in

Heck, I am running my CRT at 0% brightness (CRT's also have brightness decay over time, also there a non-issue..) unless you keep it for more than 20 years, something exceptionally rare, imo.

My main factor with screens in that order
1.) How black is black, optimally it should be 0.005 cd/m (thats CRT's -> lcd's have 0.15 cd/m on average)
2) Refresh rate, needs to do at least 85hz, optimally, more than 120hz.
3) Ghosting should not exist (is related to the 60hz refresh rate)
4) 100% Color proof (means the color it displays, is the color it should have)
5) 10bit display - mainly for grey values but is good for all colors, eliminates *all* banding.
 
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34. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 09:50 Verno
 
I think the best way to put it is that its all about the TV, not so much what is behind the display. The past few years running Panasonic has been making the best televisions in many market price points, those happen to be plasma. 2009 belonged to Samsung, they made some great LCDs. 2010/2011 were undoubtedly Panasonic, the ST/VT lines were an incredible value/performance proposition. 2012 will be interesting too, Panny made serious strides with brightness and improving glare filters for windowed rooms. That's not surprising though, they bought Pioneers patent portfolio who made legendary quality televisions that still sell for thousands of dollars today. They finally got their act on the the Q/A problems that had been dogging them. Samsung and LG making cheap plasmas at the bottom rung of the market certainly hasn't helped old consumer perceptions though.

OLED isn't a save all either, as someone else mentioned there are color accuracy problems and manufacturing costs are awful. Companies finally got to the point where its cheap to manufacturer LCD/Plasma and their margins there are suffering, I don't think they will be rushing to consumer sized OLEDs.
 
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33. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 09:34 eRe4s3r
 
Same here, buy my CRT is better than HD (1600x1200 ;p) only downside is sharpness, I guess. But these smooth round pixels have an advantage, you don't have extremely hard pixel borders. Particularly when it comes to text fonts.  
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32. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 08:22 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on May 13, 2012, 18:15:
Quboid wrote on May 13, 2012, 17:35:
This is the reason I love my AMOLED phone. The screen's black is black, even in a dark room it is pure black. Compared to the cheap LED TV I bought (26" LG, about 200) which has horribly uneven blacks, non of which are actually black; OLED is beautiful.

Once you go true black, you never go back.

Yeah this is my biggest problem with our LCD TV. We have a Panny plasma that is just gorgeous but you need to have it in a dark room because the glare filters on them are poor and their brightness isn't quite solar like LCD. People say the LCD blacks have caught up but not according to reviews and forums I'm reading nor our personal experience owning both types of TV.

Our LCD is a nice little TV but its uniformity is pretty uneven and blacks are average at best. It's shit for sports and anything with fast motion too, that 120hz crap is just interpolation that introduces color shifting and still exhibits some blurring, particularly if you're sitting on an angle. On the flipside I can tie the LCD to the stand and not have to worry about it falling over and killing the kid unlike the plasma which I had to anchor to the wall.

I think people are being too optmistic about OLED stuff though, it will still be a long time before we see affordable consumer models. I wouldn't be surprised if it was another 3-5 years even.

The glare filters got poor on LCDs in 2011, too, though. Why? Because idiots in stores prefer glossy screens, so LCDs lost one of their biggest advantages. General consensus is that 2011 LCDs were one huge step backwards while 2011 plasmas were a step forward, really widening the gap.

But even LCDs with poor filters are better than plasmas with great ones if you have a room where sun appears. I mean, hell, my VT25 was 2010s top plasma, and in most reviews top TVs, and on Saturday mornings from 9 till maybe 1 the sun streaming into my room, not even direct, crushes contrast and actually makes me play worse in games.
But considering the majority of my use is after 7pm I'm happy with the plasma.
 
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31. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 07:20 Dades
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on May 14, 2012, 04:39:
You said LCD was "blurry" and that it was because of "ignorance" and "confirmation bias" that it succeeded.

No I didn't, stop misquoting me. Those were separate statements in different contexts. I said plasma as a technology was doomed due to certain factors, I didn't say it was why LCD succeeded. Of course when others are talking about something it involves their opinion. It is not my fault if you misconstrue things into some weird slight because you happened to buy an LCD. Enough of this crap, what a waste of time.

This comment was edited on May 14, 2012, 07:33.
 
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30. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 04:39 theyarecomingforyou
 
Dades wrote on May 13, 2012, 19:42:
I'm not sure why criticism of a technology is a personal slight towards you or me trying to make myself superior considering I don't own a plasma. I posted that if plasma as a technology doesn't succeed it was due to those factors, I didn't say anything about the success of LCDs. I never said LCD has terrible picture quality either but I'm not going to do the debate club thing over it. I'm just talking about television tech, not passing judgment on your specific TV or whatever.
You said LCD was "blurry" and that it was because of "ignorance" and "confirmation bias" that it succeeded. At the same time you stated that plasma was the "superior" technology and the only downside was its size. Even now you say you're just talking about "television tech" as if what you're stating isn't an opinion - it's fact. As I stated, LCD/LED has plenty of issues that I'm certainly not trying to defend. But if you can't see how what you said could be considered a "personal slight" then perhaps you need to think more carefully about what you post.

Kitkoan wrote on May 13, 2012, 20:36:
As for OLED tv's, I hope not. From what I understand, OLED's can lose like half their brightness in 5 years. Due this this, OLED's are great for smartphones and tablets that have an expected lifespan of 2-4 years tops so you won't notice it, but if your going to have a device that will be around longer, like a TV, it's not as good.
To be fair, both LCD and plasma had a lot of issues with early models and both technologies suffered burn-in and brightness fade. I wouldn't expect anything different from OLED. The earlier models likely won't last as long as previous technology until the technology matures. They've been working to address the issues - for instance, the colour blue used to fade considerably more than other colours but they have developed a new implementation that considerably reduces the problem.
 
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29. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 01:40 Jensen
 
Thanks for trying to help, but it has nothing to do with the signal. It even happens with the TV OSD menus. I mostly just use Netflix on the PS3 or DVD/Blu-ray, all through HDMI. I just posted that image I found because that is when I usually notice... Blinds on a sitcom. It doesn't really happen all that often.

The dark stripe under his nose is all that I am referring too. It is not a compression artifact.
 
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28. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 00:07 Smellfinger
 
LED significantly lowered the image quality gap, but I still prefer plasma for a couple of fairly superficial reasons: 1. It's cheaper and 2. I like glass screens because they're easier to clean and almost impervious to scratching. I could survive in a plasma-free world, though.  
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27. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 14, 2012, 00:05 Ant
 
ViRGE wrote on May 13, 2012, 23:58:
Jensen wrote on May 13, 2012, 22:53:
nin wrote on May 13, 2012, 21:22:
The moment you mentioned ghosting, I thought of the cables...you swapped those?
I use HDMI. Usually from my PS3.
It's not often noticeable. Only when there are high contrast horizontal stripes. Ghosting probably isn't the right way to describe it.

Edit:
here's an image that shows what I'm talking about
What's the source for that? Cable? If anything that looks like MPEG-2 compression artifacts from a cable system with overly compressed channels.
Over the air (OTA) feeds can have that too with lots of movements/actions.
 
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26. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 23:58 ViRGE
 
Jensen wrote on May 13, 2012, 22:53:
nin wrote on May 13, 2012, 21:22:
The moment you mentioned ghosting, I thought of the cables...you swapped those?
I use HDMI. Usually from my PS3.
It's not often noticeable. Only when there are high contrast horizontal stripes. Ghosting probably isn't the right way to describe it.

Edit:
here's an image that shows what I'm talking about
What's the source for that? Cable? If anything that looks like MPEG-2 compression artifacts from a cable system with overly compressed channels.
 
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25. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 22:53 Jensen
 
nin wrote on May 13, 2012, 21:22:
The moment you mentioned ghosting, I thought of the cables...you swapped those?
I use HDMI. Usually from my PS3.
It's not often noticeable. Only when there are high contrast horizontal stripes. Ghosting probably isn't the right way to describe it.

Edit:
here's an image that shows what I'm talking about

This comment was edited on May 13, 2012, 23:19.
 
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24. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 21:45 ViRGE
 
Beamer wrote on May 13, 2012, 12:36:
Man, I can't see myself ever going for LCD over Plasma for my primary TV.
Agreed. The colors, lack of motion blur, and viewing angles are just too much to give up.
Kitkoan wrote on May 13, 2012, 20:36:
As for OLED tv's, I hope not. From what I understand, OLED's can lose like half their brightness in 5 years. Due this this, OLED's are great for smartphones and tablets that have an expected lifespan of 2-4 years tops so you won't notice it, but if your going to have a device that will be around longer, like a TV, it's not as good.
That's a very good point. OLED has some definite benefits, but it's still not at all clear that it can economically scale up to TV sizes. Or for that matter can the color issues can be resolved - both the initial color accuracy and the fact that uneven subpixel wear causes color accuracy to shift over time - which would be important for a larger device. It's worth keeping an eye on for sure, but don't start saving up for that OLED TV set or ignoring LCD/plasma quite yet.
 
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23. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 21:32 mag
 
Jensen wrote on May 13, 2012, 20:48:
I did a lot of research before buying and afterwards on settings. I didn't use a calibration device, but I still expect it to be better than it is, and I doubt calibration would fix the color banding.
Maybe I'm just extremely picky?

My new iPad, on the other hand, looks very similar to the hardware calibrated $1000 NEC ips LCD monitors at work. It has zero banding in gradients. The backlight color is a bit uneven, and it doesn't have quite the viewing angles as a Plasma, but those are very minor issues.

I do see color banding, but it seems to be dependent on on the source rather than the display (you would see the banding on anything). But most of the other things either sound like a faulty set or bad settings. It's also possible that I'm just blind or that you're particularly picky, I suppose. Tough to say without seeing!
 
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22. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 21:25 Ant
 
eRe4s3r wrote on May 13, 2012, 16:42:
I am tired of the lack of black on LCD's, lcd's are factor 10 brighter than plasmas when displaying something that's supposed to have 0 brightness. Also, black on LCD's (the best ones!) is 100 times brighter than CRT's.

I know you will say "who cares" ... but if you ever got used to black blacks, you can't go back.
That is why I still use CRT even if it is only SD.
 
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21. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 21:22 nin
 

I did a lot of research before buying and afterwards on settings. I didn't use a calibration device, but I still expect it to be better than it is, and I doubt calibration would fix the color banding.
Maybe I'm just extremely picky?


The moment you mentioned ghosting, I thought of the cables...you swapped those?


 
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20. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 20:48 Jensen
 
I did a lot of research before buying and afterwards on settings. I didn't use a calibration device, but I still expect it to be better than it is, and I doubt calibration would fix the color banding.
Maybe I'm just extremely picky?

My new iPad, on the other hand, looks very similar to the hardware calibrated $1000 NEC ips LCD monitors at work. It has zero banding in gradients. The backlight color is a bit uneven, and it doesn't have quite the viewing angles as a Plasma, but those are very minor issues.
 
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19. Re: Sunday Tech Bits May 13, 2012, 20:36 Kitkoan
 
Personally I would never buy a plasma tv. Reason being that I had two different friends buy them (at the store without even trying you could tell which ones were LCD and Plasma, the Plasma ones were brighter and better all around looking.)

The problem? Screen burn, lot of easy to get screen burn. Play a game with a HUD for an hour? You can still see it like 2 hours later. Same with tv channels that put their logo on in the corner. They both had to put their tv on sleep mode at night before bed on burn protection mode (can't remember the name, it made the screen white with it have a fade to black bar going from right to left). If they didn't do this, screen burn all day the next day.

Both bought an LCD tv after that. Didn't matter it has the "grey haze" in the colour, it doesn't have screen burn.

As for OLED tv's, I hope not. From what I understand, OLED's can lose like half their brightness in 5 years. Due this this, OLED's are great for smartphones and tablets that have an expected lifespan of 2-4 years tops so you won't notice it, but if your going to have a device that will be around longer, like a TV, it's not as good.

(AMOLED and OLED's are mostly the same, the difference being AM-OLED means Advanced Matrix, aka, touch sensitive, with OLED not being touch sensitive).

On a different note, one of the other differences of LCD and OLED is pixel density and colour. LCD's don't have the richness of colour as an OLED, but a LCD can have much smaller pixels. The best example of this I can think of is the iPad 3 vs the Galaxy Tab. The iPad3 has a LCD screen which gives it the huge screen size that the Galaxy Tab just can't do (the Galaxy Tab uses a AMOLED screen). The catch? Pictures look brighter and better on the Galaxy Tab, but not as sharp since the screen size is smaller.
For a decent example, you can look at this YouTube video, at the times of 1:39-1:43 when he zooms in to the screens. You can see the Galaxy Tab on the right has richer yellows and blues, look at the Sun icon, the one above it, look at the yellow "Feature" icons. The color difference is something you can notice here.

This comment was edited on May 13, 2012, 20:49.
 
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