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Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc?

A forum thread on GameFAQs has indications that Risen 2: Dark Waters may be the latest game to ship with what's supposed to be future DLC included on the retail disc. The thread outlines the discovery, and spawns one of those heated discussions over the ethics of making content on the game disc dependant on a future. Thanks Blend Games.

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75 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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35. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 21:58 NewMaxx
 
killer_roach wrote on May 6, 2012, 14:52:
I'd argue that DLC is a method of price discrimination, extracting more than the MSRP from people who clearly are enjoying the game enough to pay more than MSRP over the game's life cycle.

I think I've seen internal numbers that state only 10% of initial customers ended up buying DLC. Therefore, you would expect the average DLC to be at 10% or less of the effort of the main game, and similar in price. Naturally it is not as clear-cut as all that, but it is the basic idea. Seems to be an ideal thing for a kickstarter if you ask me.
 
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34. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 21:29 Kitkoan
 
Riker wrote on May 6, 2012, 20:01:
TychoCelchuuu wrote on May 6, 2012, 15:51:
It's a problem because the "D" in "DLC" stands for "downloaded" or "downloadable" or whatever, and the reason it stands for that is because they traditionally couldn't have non-downloaded DLC because it was content released after the game came out, and thus it couldn't be on the disc.

Nah, I think that's bullshit. The terms are disclosed fully, and I don't see how anyone could be legitimately upset about it. Some people just need an excuse to whine I guess.

Or some people feel that being price gouged for the sake of greed is a bad thing I guess.
 
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*automatically refuses to place horse heads in anyone's bed*
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33. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 21:00 Mad Max RW
 
The worst games seem to attract the most apologists. And after this game disappears forever instead of admitting you're morons you'll find some other horrible piece of shit to defend.  
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32. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 20:01 Riker
 
TychoCelchuuu wrote on May 6, 2012, 15:51:
It's a problem because the "D" in "DLC" stands for "downloaded" or "downloadable" or whatever, and the reason it stands for that is because they traditionally couldn't have non-downloaded DLC because it was content released after the game came out, and thus it couldn't be on the disc.

Nah, I think that's bullshit. The terms are disclosed fully, and I don't see how anyone could be legitimately upset about it. Some people just need an excuse to whine I guess.
 
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31. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 19:52 Jerykk
 
I don't think Risen 2 is particularly buggy. There are graphical bugs, like weird foliage that randomly shrinks and grows, as well as flickering shadows. Also, the game isn't optimized very well. However, the rest of the game is pretty solid. No crashes or broken quests after 20 hours of gameplay so far. That already makes it more polished than all three Gothic games.  
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30. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 19:48 Acleacius
 
Kajetan wrote on May 6, 2012, 17:10:
Boy, there's some funny fanboy ranting

Normaly, the publisher chooses the DRM, but it's the dev who implements it. Normaly, it's the publishers descision to offer additional DLC and it's the devs job to create and implement it. And normaly, PB is well known for releasing buggy games since Gothic 1.

And seeing this little disaster, everything is the way it should be with games from PB
Did you even read his post, you just got through confirming what I said, then tried to pass it off as a rant? Yeah, they released buggy games, they have been 12-20 man team from about 1998 to 2008 they worked out of a converted house 12-18 hours a day (about as much as you run your mouth apparently) and for the most part are/have been a independent developer.

Yeah I did hear this was pretty buggy and why I was waiting on a patch, I knew Deep Silver would force it out early/buggy. Yet you seem so clueless about publishers pushing titles out, your ignorantly willing to blame the developer. I'm defiantly a fan of PB but I would and do defend any independent in these cases whether or not I'm a fan of the developer.

Essentially your were wrong on every count, good luck next time emo.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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29. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 19:42 Jerykk
 
I was wondering why the Treasure Isle DLC was only like 40 MB. Guess this explains it.

In any case, it's always a bad idea to include DLC with the original game release. It doesn't really matter if it had a separate budget and team from the main game. Customers only care that it was already finished and on the disc that they bought.

Now, whether or not the DLC should have been part of the core game is another matter entirely. When you look back at the pre-DLC days, you'll notice that games tended to offer a lot more bonus content. Tekken 3, for example, had a bunch of hidden characters, outfits and gameplay modes. If Tekken 3 were released today, would it have had all that extra content? Probably not. Most likely, they would have been sold separately as DLC. That's really the root of the whole issue. Back in the day, developers were encouraged to cram as much extra content into the game as possible as a means to increase the value of the product. These days, they're only expected to make a barebones game, with anything extra prepared as DLC.

This comment was edited on May 6, 2012, 19:49.
 
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28. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 19:38 ViRGE
 
Smellfinger wrote on May 6, 2012, 18:22:
In the future, developers will keep the finished DLC off the disc and wait a while to release it. This will give the illusion that it was worked on after the game shipped.
In this case ignorance is bliss.
 
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27. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 19:38 Acleacius
 
CJ_Parker wrote on May 6, 2012, 16:48:
I'm eagerly awaiting the day when you quit being a cocksucking apologist. Oh wait... you like the taste of cocks too much don'tcha? OK. Then swallow on.

I do believe you are so eager you can't get those thoughts out of your head. I do hate to be the barer of bad news, I have no interest in your lusts, you'll have to get your gay fix somewhere else.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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26. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 19:34 Quboid
 
Smellfinger wrote on May 6, 2012, 18:22:
In the future, developers will keep the finished DLC off the disc and wait a while to release it. This will give the illusion that it was worked on after the game shipped.

I've no doubt many already do.
 
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- Quboid
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25. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 18:22 Smellfinger
 
In the future, developers will keep the finished DLC off the disc and wait a while to release it. This will give the illusion that it was worked on after the game shipped.  
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24. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 18:18 RaZ0r!
 
What is a retail disc?  
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23. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 17:49 Quboid
 
There's just something fundamentally wrong with making us buy something on the disc we've already bought. That's an insult.

There's more to it than this, which you guys are discussing, but I think this is an underlying issue. I know there's all sorts of EULAs and law that says we are only buying the right to access some data - ultimately, we buy the disc and we feel we own it and right or wrong, the games industry would be foolish to take this for granted and putting DLC on the disc is doing just that.
 
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- Quboid
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22. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 17:21 Sepharo
 
DG wrote on May 6, 2012, 16:41:
I can only guess the outraged people don't have jobs.

Yeah people who dislike 0-day DLC just dislike it because they can't afford it!
 
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21. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 17:21 spindoctor
 
I downloaded the game from Steam so I don't know if the extra island was 'on disc', but I do know that the Pirates clothes DLC was nothing but an unlock key. I'm not sure if my level of (or lack of) outrage should change depending on whether or not I had downloaded that extra 1-2MB that the skin would be from Steam after inputting my DLC key. Seems kind of pointless either way.  
Some of the most miserable and unhappy gamers on the planet are at Bluesnews
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20. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 17:10 Kajetan
 
Acleacius wrote on May 6, 2012, 16:30:
I have no idea where your getting this info from, that's like saying the developer is responsible for choosing and implementing drm. Look your just looking for a excuse to emo-blame PB for some personal grudge go for it. Just pretending PB or any other HIRED/CONTRACTED developer makes sales, marketing, publishing, content and copy production is nonsense unless you have any credible info saying otherwise.
Boy, there's some funny fanboy ranting

Normaly, the publisher chooses the DRM, but it's the dev who implements it. Normaly, it's the publishers descision to offer additional DLC and it's the devs job to create and implement it. And normaly, PB is well known for releasing buggy games since Gothic 1.

And seeing this little disaster, everything is the way it should be with games from PB
 
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19. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 17:09 entr0py
 
TychoCelchuuu wrote on May 6, 2012, 15:51:
It's a problem because the "D" in "DLC" stands for "downloaded" or "downloadable" or whatever, and the reason it stands for that is because they traditionally couldn't have non-downloaded DLC because it was content released after the game came out, and thus it couldn't be on the disc. So it was fine to pay extra for it because you bought they game, then they made more stuff for it, so you bought that.

The Blend games article explains that a portion of the content (the audio) isn't on the disk and must be downloaded. So even if they advertize it explicitly using the term DLC, they can get away with it.

In this case, they've made them game, then arbitrarily sectioned off some part of it so they can charge you more for it. This makes people annoyed because it's not clear why this stuff couldn't just come with the original game.

How do you know they didn't make 120% of a game and carefully sectioned off the extra part? DLC being on the disk definitely looks suspicious. But it's not impossible for them to just delay the release of a game long enough to also finish the first DLC.
 
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18. removed May 6, 2012, 16:48 CJ_Parker
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on May 7, 2012, 08:27.
 
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17. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 16:41 DG
 
I don't get it. On the disk, not on the disk, what's the difference where the bytes are stored?

I dislike DLC in principle because:
- I am concerned that content that otherwise would have been included with the game is being hived off for additional charge;
- Game design is being compromised in order to facilitate selling DLC;
- I dislike this "nickel and dime" approach.

On-disk DLC doesn't prove any of the above occurred. All it proves is that some of the development took place before the game went gold. So what?

I can only guess the outraged people don't have jobs. The way it works is marketing make a best-guess that a game will sell say $10m and the DLC say $1m so each is given a budget of say $7m and $0.7m respectively. If there was no DLC, the game budget is still $7m. What relevance is it whether the additional $0.7m is spent before or after release?

If you think that the time of development is somehow the important thing that determines "game" vs. "DLC", well it isn't - it's cost. If time was all that mattered it'd be free.

As for people annoyed that the "DLC" isn't actually downloaded... You're annoyed that they saved you both some bandwidth? Really?

There's plenty not to like about either the concept or the execution of DLC, but whether it comes on the disk or a subsequent download is totally irrelevant.
 
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16. Re: Risen 2 DLC Already on Disc? May 6, 2012, 16:40 hello newman
 
WarpCrow wrote on May 6, 2012, 13:33:
Quboid wrote on May 6, 2012, 13:05:
Isn't Risen 2 a bit ... rough? What are their priorities?

It's a Piranha Bytes game. If there's one thing these German developers are known for (aside from Crytek), it's for delivering rough, buggy games. The first Risen was the same way, the Gothic series, Sacred... QA is just not a priority. I was looking forward to the way Risen 2 looked, but seeing that and the fact that it proudly had Day 1 DLC that wasn't even available to pre-orders (and was reportedly mediocre on top)... meh. One less game for the wishlist.

Huh !?
I was thinking that if there's ONLY ONE thing Piranha Bytes could be known for that would be that they make extremely fun, funny and entertaining games with a great emphasis on discovery and a recognisable and inspired art style (did I mention the memorable soundtracks in every one of their games?).

Being a little buggy/glitchy occasionaly would be at worst only the SECOND THING thing about them.

I'm not defending DLC-on-disc as I think it sucks as an industry-wide practice, but being the PB fanboy that I am I just cannot let your unjust hatey remarks go unchecked

my 0.02 Euros


 
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75 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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