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Morning Previews

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38. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 21:40 Yifes
 
NKD wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 20:31:
Krovven wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 20:03:
Tried a friends GW2 beta very briefly this past weekend. It ran like crap on my aging machine,

It ran like crap on my cutting edge machine too, don't feel bad. I've actually never seen an MMO run this shitty by the time they got around to public testing. They need to do more than a little optimization, an overhaul seems more needed.

Seriously? It ran well on low on my 4850. Only noticed any sort of stuttering in the WvW, which was still surprisingly playable with around ~50 people onscreen. That experience alone has me sold on this game.
 
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37. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 20:31 NKD
 
Krovven wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 20:03:
Tried a friends GW2 beta very briefly this past weekend. It ran like crap on my aging machine,

It ran like crap on my cutting edge machine too, don't feel bad. I've actually never seen an MMO run this shitty by the time they got around to public testing. They need to do more than a little optimization, an overhaul seems more needed.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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36. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 20:03 Krovven
 
Tried a friends GW2 beta very briefly this past weekend. It ran like crap on my aging machine, so I didn't get into it. It's a beta and needs to be optimized, but Dx9, everything on low and it was still about 10-15fps, which was the same as if I had everything on medium.
Doesn't give me much hope this will run very well for me.

Of what I did play, it didn't grab me.

I don't have a great desire to play GW2 but I'm sure I'll get it on sale at some point.

 
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35. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 19:58 Krovven
 
Alamar wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:34:
My point is that, to many, WoW is the epitome of 'generic quests', but still has a crazy amount of variety...

I agree with your point and that WoW does cover every generic quest type that every other MMO does.

WoW does also have some interesting twists on the norm. There are many, but two that always comes to mind are both in Storm Peaks, The Drakkensryd and Thrusting Hodir's Spear.

The introduction of the Phasing system, Temporary spells, vehicles, taking control on monsters, etc. has given Blizz/WoW a huge advantage over most other MMO's when it comes to quest design.

 
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34. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 19:01 NKD
 
My opinion of the game hasn't changed much after playing again in this beta weekend, as an Elementalist. The leveling process felt a lot like a grind compared to other games. I felt like I was doing the same "dynamic" events over and over again just trying to get the XP and levels needed to move on to the next "heart", and eventually my next story quest.

The difficulty of the game is still wildly inconsistent. It's very easy to get killed, but the penalty in time and money for being killed is so tiny that it doesn't really matter. Playing alone felt unrewarding, and playing with others felt like a zerg rush of idiots.

I'll buy the game because there's no monthly fee and I'll probably get my moneys worth in the long run, but it's definitely disappointing a lot of the people who bought into the hype.
 
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33. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:43 Teddy
 
space captain wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:37:
Teddy wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:19:
And? WoW had some of the greatest quest variety in the MMO genre. What exactly is your point?

that is the point.. you seem to accept window dressing as legitimatizing the "differences" in fetch/kill quests

the main reason MMOs cant have really interesting quests is because the world is static, and it doesnt change thru player interaction at the quest level

ive said this before, MMORPGs are more like an RPG theme-park... not really an RPG, but dressed up and dancing around like a caricature of one

Yep, when I was wandering around Kessex Hills, those centaurs certainly didn't take over a town or two, kill all the people in it and set up shop for themselves. Didn't need to take the town back, then escort supplies there to repair the damage done, and help people out to get the vendors and quests in the town back.

You are a perfect example of my previous post. You have no interest in seeing the variety that exists because you WANT to dislike it and insult it. and I'm sure just as I said there, you can't come up with anything that hasn't been done either.
 
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32. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:39 Teddy
 
Alamar wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:34:

My point is that, to many, WoW is the epitome of 'generic quests', but still has a crazy amount of variety...

People like new, so much, that it blinds their memory : )

-Alamar

Many people are also idiots. They rant and wail about how 'generic' the quests are but ask them to come up with a quest themselves that has never been done and not one of them can come up with anything. They cry generic because that's what they want to see it as, not because that's what it is. It's just another facet of the hipster religion, pathetic as it is. Hate it because it's popular, come up with some vague term they'll overuse to denigrate it, but have absolutely nothing to back up the argument with.
 
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31. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:37 space captain
 
Teddy wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:19:
And? WoW had some of the greatest quest variety in the MMO genre. What exactly is your point?

that is the point.. you seem to accept window dressing as legitimatizing the "differences" in fetch/kill quests

the main reason MMOs cant have really interesting quests is because the world is static, and it doesnt change thru player interaction at the quest level

ive said this before, MMORPGs are more like an RPG theme-park... not really an RPG, but dressed up and dancing around like a caricature of one
 
Go forth, and kill!
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30. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:34 Alamar
 
Teddy wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:19:
Alamar wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:16:
I remember putting out fires on buildings with buckets of water, killing bandits that were raiding a town, gathering caricoli, escorting caravans, destroying centaur (and centipaar) villages, freeing slaves, snowball fights, solving riddles (easy ones), cleaning up far-too-much feces, protecting miners and gathering up the ore they mined, scaring away horses, destroying portals in a swamp, luring 'dinosaurs' into traps, planting bait to lure enraged kodos, sealing various mounds, watering plants, disarming traps, tearing down banners, destroying siege equipment...

Been a bit since I played WoW though...

-Alamar

And? WoW had some of the greatest quest variety in the MMO genre. What exactly is your point?

My point is that, to many, WoW is the epitome of 'generic quests', but still has a crazy amount of variety...

People like new, so much, that it blinds their memory : )

-Alamar
 
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29. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:19 Teddy
 
Alamar wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:16:
I remember putting out fires on buildings with buckets of water, killing bandits that were raiding a town, gathering caricoli, escorting caravans, destroying centaur (and centipaar) villages, freeing slaves, snowball fights, solving riddles (easy ones), cleaning up far-too-much feces, protecting miners and gathering up the ore they mined, scaring away horses, destroying portals in a swamp, luring 'dinosaurs' into traps, planting bait to lure enraged kodos, sealing various mounds, watering plants, disarming traps, tearing down banners, destroying siege equipment...

Been a bit since I played WoW though...

-Alamar

And? WoW had some of the greatest quest variety in the MMO genre. What exactly is your point?
 
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28. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:16 Alamar
 
Teddy wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 17:03:
Alamar wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 15:26:
As for GW2, one of the neatest quests I did was a snowball fight with a bunch of kid NPCs running around... Good to practice the double-tap-dodge (which I'm actually fine with, as I played a lot of UT back in the day).

-Alamar

The snowball fight quest was awesome. So was the gathering of rabbit food, where you had to carry it across a field of rabbit holes. The rabbits would pop out randomly and chase you down to get the food back.

Frankly, I think anyone saying that the quests are 'standard' or lacking in variety is either completely full of shit or barely played the game. Since the majority of "quests" involve doing any of 3-4 different things, if you chose to just kill things, that's your own fault. I remember putting out fires in fields with buckets of water, killing bandits that were raiding a farm, gathering grapes, escorting caravans, destroying centaur villages, freeing slaves, snowball fights, solving riddles (easy ones), cleaning up graffiti, protecting miners and gathering up the ore they mined, scaring away rabbits from fields, protecting workers that were repairing a water pumping station, destroying portals in a swamp, luring armored crabs into traps, planting bait to lure rabbits into an area to pacify ettins, sealing a destroyer mound, watering plants, disarming traps, tearing down banners, destroying siege equipment...

The list could still go on, but if all you see in that list is Kill X, Collect Y, then the problem is yours, not the game's.

I remember putting out fires on buildings with buckets of water, killing bandits that were raiding a town, gathering caricoli, escorting caravans, destroying centaur (and centipaar) villages, freeing slaves, snowball fights, solving riddles (easy ones), cleaning up far-too-much feces, protecting miners and gathering up the ore they mined, scaring away horses, destroying portals in a swamp, luring 'dinosaurs' into traps, planting bait to lure enraged kodos, sealing various mounds, watering plants, disarming traps, tearing down banners, destroying siege equipment...

Been a bit since I played WoW though...

-Alamar
 
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27. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:08 Teddy
 
Darks wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 16:56:
One other comment about grouping that did bother me when you are grouped up with someone and go into an instance you were separated and the group disbanded. That was BS, This was the story line quest.

Iím not sure if thatís by design or not but it was rather frustrating that you cannot go into those grouped and coop those missions together. Iím hoping this is fixed in the near future or it will be rather frustrating to try playing this game with a friend and having to be separated all the time. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of group questing with friends.

Absolutely not by design. If you were going into a story quest and your friend was in the same server as you (rather than in a different overflow server), then the game should have given him an invite to join you on a story quest. I ran through 15 levsls of story quests with a friend, with one different choice in our character creation to see how it changed things. Around level 9 or so, our stories diverged into two different quest-lines. I was still able to join his and he, mine.
 
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26. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 17:03 Teddy
 
Alamar wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 15:26:
As for GW2, one of the neatest quests I did was a snowball fight with a bunch of kid NPCs running around... Good to practice the double-tap-dodge (which I'm actually fine with, as I played a lot of UT back in the day).

-Alamar

The snowball fight quest was awesome. So was the gathering of rabbit food, where you had to carry it across a field of rabbit holes. The rabbits would pop out randomly and chase you down to get the food back.

Frankly, I think anyone saying that the quests are 'standard' or lacking in variety is either completely full of shit or barely played the game. Since the majority of "quests" involve doing any of 3-4 different things, if you chose to just kill things, that's your own fault. I remember putting out fires in fields with buckets of water, killing bandits that were raiding a farm, gathering grapes, escorting caravans, destroying centaur villages, freeing slaves, snowball fights, solving riddles (easy ones), cleaning up graffiti, protecting miners and gathering up the ore they mined, scaring away rabbits from fields, protecting workers that were repairing a water pumping station, destroying portals in a swamp, luring armored crabs into traps, planting bait to lure rabbits into an area to pacify ettins, sealing a destroyer mound, watering plants, disarming traps, tearing down banners, destroying siege equipment...

The list could still go on, but if all you see in that list is Kill X, Collect Y, then the problem is yours, not the game's.
 
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25. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 16:56 Darks
 
Teddy wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 16:44:
Mikus_Aurelius wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:50:
I played a warrior and guardian, almost exclusively melee, and I had to dodge a ton or I died. I think ranged can just stand and spam, which is less fun and also imbalanced. Being up close with mobs 3-4 levels above me, I had to watch for their special attacks and negate them, or lose half my life. Did it require the reflexes of a FPS? Not quite, but I enjoyed it.

This is definitely something they need to find some way to balance better, giving melee weapons extra toughness or vitality or something because melee take WAY more damage than ranged and don't deal a significant amount more damage to compensate.

I think my biggest quest complaint for what I played of GW2 thus far is spawn-camping. They should cap the zones to even lower max populations if they're going to have quests that other players compete for so directly. Or up the spawn rates based on the player count. Something. Personally, I hate MMOs, loved that GW1 was not in fact an MMO, and was really down to learn that GW2 was going to be an MMO. But they could mitigate the spawn-camping (already do for certain things, like scaled events); they need to eradicate it entirely.

What spawn camping? Mobs aren't flagged, and anyone can contribute to killing them and get credit toward their own objectives. I suppose it can be an issue if there's 10 people per mob and it's dying before people can get a hit in, since one hit is all it will take to get credit. I experienced nothing of the sort in the 20 some odd hours I put in over the weekend.

I can agree on this, I really liked that you could jump into someone elseís kill and still get credit and a drop from the same mod kill. That was a pleasant surprise.

And I agree that melee characters defiantly need better armor or whatever they are going to do. I was getting tired of getting my ass handed to me in those mass battles and being right in the middle taking a ton of damage. it was hard keeping alive even with the added regen your supposed to have as a warrior.

I still enjoyed the game and understand this is a beta so itís going to take some time for them to iron out the issues, but some of the battles were defiantly over the top difficult at times, even the class based quest.

One other comment about grouping that did bother me when you are grouped up with someone and go into an instance you were separated and the group disbanded. That was BS, This was the story line quest.

Iím not sure if thatís by design or not but it was rather frustrating that you cannot go into those grouped and coop those missions together. Iím hoping this is fixed in the near future or it will be rather frustrating to try playing this game with a friend and having to be separated all the time. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of group questing with friends.
 
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24. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 16:44 Teddy
 
Mikus_Aurelius wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:50:
I played a warrior and guardian, almost exclusively melee, and I had to dodge a ton or I died. I think ranged can just stand and spam, which is less fun and also imbalanced. Being up close with mobs 3-4 levels above me, I had to watch for their special attacks and negate them, or lose half my life. Did it require the reflexes of a FPS? Not quite, but I enjoyed it.

This is definitely something they need to find some way to balance better, giving melee weapons extra toughness or vitality or something because melee take WAY more damage than ranged and don't deal a significant amount more damage to compensate.

I think my biggest quest complaint for what I played of GW2 thus far is spawn-camping. They should cap the zones to even lower max populations if they're going to have quests that other players compete for so directly. Or up the spawn rates based on the player count. Something. Personally, I hate MMOs, loved that GW1 was not in fact an MMO, and was really down to learn that GW2 was going to be an MMO. But they could mitigate the spawn-camping (already do for certain things, like scaled events); they need to eradicate it entirely.

What spawn camping? Mobs aren't flagged, and anyone can contribute to killing them and get credit toward their own objectives. I suppose it can be an issue if there's 10 people per mob and it's dying before people can get a hit in, since one hit is all it will take to get credit. I experienced nothing of the sort in the 20 some odd hours I put in over the weekend.
 
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23. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 16:36 Verno
 
wtf_man wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 15:57:
Verno wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:22:
I didn't get a chance to check out the beta so all of this feedback has been invaluable, thanks to the people who took the time to write things up. As someone who is pretty burnt out on MMOs in general it sounds like this one might not be different enough to keep me interested after all.

I'm burnt out on MMOs, and it was different enough for me. (So Far).

Granted, I have not played an MMO since Age of Conan. So, I have had a bit of a hiatus, and I am unfamiliar with Warhammer and Rift's public quests.

It needs some work, but it's definitely worth the price of the box, IMO. As others have said... since there is no monthly fee... you can hop in and hop out as you please.

Also...for melee... I found that 1H completely sucked. 2H Sword or Hammer were decent... and Bow or Rifle for Rage was decent too.

Fair enough, you have changed my mind again
 
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22. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 15:57 wtf_man
 
Verno wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:22:
I didn't get a chance to check out the beta so all of this feedback has been invaluable, thanks to the people who took the time to write things up. As someone who is pretty burnt out on MMOs in general it sounds like this one might not be different enough to keep me interested after all.

I'm burnt out on MMOs, and it was different enough for me. (So Far).

Granted, I have not played an MMO since Age of Conan. So, I have had a bit of a hiatus, and I am unfamiliar with Warhammer and Rift's public quests.

It needs some work, but it's definitely worth the price of the box, IMO. As others have said... since there is no monthly fee... you can hop in and hop out as you please.

Also...for melee... I found that 1H completely sucked. 2H Sword or Hammer were decent... and Bow or Rifle for Rage was decent too.
 
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21. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 15:42 eunichron
 
Red wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:43:
wall of text

Just had to say that was an awesome write-up. I was contemplating DrEvil's post trying to think of something, and you pretty much covered it.
 
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20. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 15:26 Alamar
 
DrEvil wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:09:
Not to troll or anything, but what are some examples of quests that you'd like to see in an MMO that don't fit the Kill X/Collect Y molds ? Seems like at the high level most things would fit into that.

Bombing runs... heh... They were so cool when first added... Now they're just part of the norm...

As for GW2, one of the neatest quests I did was a snowball fight with a bunch of kid NPCs running around... Good to practice the double-tap-dodge (which I'm actually fine with, as I played a lot of UT back in the day).

-Alamar
 
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19. Re: Morning Previews Apr 30, 2012, 15:16 Cutter
 
DrEvil wrote on Apr 30, 2012, 14:09:
Not to troll or anything, but what are some examples of quests that you'd like to see in an MMO that don't fit the Kill X/Collect Y molds ? Seems like at the high level most things would fit into that.

Quests that aren't based on combat, or where it's incidental. One thing I used to love in MUDs were well designed quests that the resolution of said quest was based on creative and lateral thinking. One quest we did actually took us about 2 years - off and on - realtime to figure out because it was that complex. I've never even seen anything close to it in an MMO. And there isn't no reason they couldn't or shouldn't add quests that are a challenge like that for people to spend a lot of time working on. That and live action quests with NPCs played by staff/trusted players were always hella fun too. Oh yes, there's still much more this genre can do to enhance the playing experience.
 
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