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Valve on Half-Life 3 Ricochet 2

Develop has some excerpts from the Seven Day Cooldown podcast where Valve's Gabe Newell addresses the uncertain state of Half-Life 3, though he coyly calls the sequel he's hypothetically discussing Ricochet 2. The context makes it pretty apparent he's not actually discussing a sequel to this Valve created Half-Life modification, but rather the next full Half-Life game, though this is never explicitly stated. He uses this codename to explain the corner Valve has painted itself into at this point in terms of announcing and creating a third Half-Life (or second Ricochet, if you prefer). Here are the pertinent quotes:

“In terms of Ricochet 2, we always have this problem that when we talk about things too far in advance,” Newell said.

“We end up changing our minds as we're going through and developing stuff, so as we're thinking through the giant story arc which is Ricochet 2, you might get to a point where you're saying something is surprising us in a positive way and something is surprising us in a negative way, and, you know, we'd like to be super-transparent about the future of Ricochet 2.”

“The problem is, we think that the twists and turns that we're going through would probably drive people more crazy than just being silent about it, until we can be very crisp about what's happening next,” he said.

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72. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 25, 2012, 10:01 Verno
 
Dev wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 14:48:
Verno wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 09:22:
Gabe: Uh, nope. Everyone who was working on Ricochet 2 continues to work on Ricochet 2 [Laughs].
Nice catch, we can finally put that theory to bed.
I dunno, all that says is there's no change. So if they only ever had 5 guys working on it, that just means 5 guys are still working on it.
I have no idea how many people are working on it, I'm just saying a case can be made that that statement really doesn't say much

Whether its 5 or 50 people, you're grasping at straws dude. You should be happen that theory has been disproven, it means HL3 is still being actively worked on
 
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71. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 25, 2012, 09:49 Dev
 
BTW, gabe's desk is currently with the team doing steam and source engine on linux.
Link

So thats the kinda stuff gabe is interested in right now.
 
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70. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 14:48 Dev
 
Verno wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 09:22:
Gabe: Uh, nope. Everyone who was working on Ricochet 2 continues to work on Ricochet 2 [Laughs].
Nice catch, we can finally put that theory to bed.
I dunno, all that says is there's no change. So if they only ever had 5 guys working on it, that just means 5 guys are still working on it.
I have no idea how many people are working on it, I'm just saying a case can be made that that statement really doesn't say much
 
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69. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 09:54 wtf_man
 
Verno wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 09:22:
Although to be fair they are literally recreating every single art asset in HL1 which is an incredibly daunting task to say the least.

And completely unnecessary. A majority of the assets can get by with just a re-texture. They really only needed to focus on the levels and the character models.

Anyway... 3 years after claiming they were going to release it, is more than enough to accuse them as being lying Bastards.

/shrug
 
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68. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 09:22 Verno
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 23:08:
Did I miss somebody mentioning this?!

Questioner: I actually have a quick follow-up on Ricochet 2, and whether or not - you were talking a little bit about the horizontal structure at Steam, and Valve, the fact that people move from project to project. With... Ricochet 2, have you had people moving off that project, and that's slowed down the development cycle, or...?

Gabe: Uh, nope. Everyone who was working on Ricochet 2 continues to work on Ricochet 2 [Laughs].

That's way more interesting and reassuring to me.

Got that transcription from the comments section.

Nice catch, we can finally put that theory to bed. I think Valve just doesn't care how long it takes as they want to get it right and don't have a traditional publisher breathing down their neck. Must be nice!

But Prez! They are actively working on it! They release a screenshot of a crate or some shit every other month on their wiki!!! And in 2009... they were so close to being done that they were going to release it!!!

If they don't release Black Mesa Source in time for 2013 it will have officially taken them longer to create HL in the HL2 engine than it did for Valve to create both games from scratch.

Although to be fair they are literally recreating every single art asset in HL1 which is an incredibly daunting task to say the least.

This comment was edited on Apr 24, 2012, 09:43.
 
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67. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 09:04 wtf_man
 
Prez wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 07:43:
After all this time, this is all he's got? I almost agree with wtf_man. About the Black Mesa team too. Mod or not, what a bunch of lying jerks.

But Prez! They are actively working on it! They release a screenshot of a crate or some shit every other month on their wiki!!! And in 2009... they were so close to being done that they were going to release it!!! Rolleyes

 
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66. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 07:43 Prez
 
After all this time, this is all he's got? I almost agree with wtf_man. About the Black Mesa team too. Mod or not, what a bunch of lying jerks.  
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65. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 07:08 ViRGE
 
wtf_man wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 20:56:
Oh, and while I'm at it... Fuck the Black Mesa Mod team, too.
Hear hear!
 
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64. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 03:19 StingingVelvet
 
NKD wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 22:25:
Goldeneye complex? It was an awesome game, don't get me wrong, but it was pretty bare bones in terms of complexity. You had your typical array of weapons and mines, and bad guys to use them on. If anything, Goldeneye's simplicity is part of its charm. It made the split-screen multiplayer amazingly fun.

You had multiple objectives, often you had to find the correct route, objectives changed based on difficulty, etc. etc. It wasn't just point and shoot like 90% of modern FPS games.
 
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63. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 24, 2012, 02:28 Dev
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 21:05:
Dev I think you're putting too much dysfunction into your Valve hypotheticals. There is no way they've got multiple different teams working on the same projects doing duplicate and conflicting work. Reboots, changes in directions, that makes sense but I don't see an Apple-esque battle of teams that you imagined in your previous post.
Thats why I said they were extreme examples It could also all be the same team, and each thing I mentioned could be a change in direction as time progressed, instead of a separate team.

Reality probably lies between my two sets of examples, my earlier post with the more minor ones, and the post you are responding to with the extreme ones.
 
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62. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 23:08 Sepharo
 
Did I miss somebody mentioning this?!

Questioner: I actually have a quick follow-up on Ricochet 2, and whether or not - you were talking a little bit about the horizontal structure at Steam, and Valve, the fact that people move from project to project. With... Ricochet 2, have you had people moving off that project, and that's slowed down the development cycle, or...?

Gabe: Uh, nope. Everyone who was working on Ricochet 2 continues to work on Ricochet 2 [Laughs].

That's way more interesting and reassuring to me.

Got that transcription from the comments section.
 
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61. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 22:55 Sepharo
 
NKD wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 22:25:
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 21:36:
Even the console guys have seen everything change. Halo and Goldeneye, the games that brought FPS to consoles, were much different and more complex than games released today. Dumbing down is not about platforms, it never was... it's just about mass-market versus niche-market.

Goldeneye complex? It was an awesome game, don't get me wrong, but it was pretty bare bones in terms of complexity. You had your typical array of weapons and mines, and bad guys to use them on. If anything, Goldeneye's simplicity is part of its charm. It made the split-screen multiplayer amazingly fun.

There were quite a few game modes, plenty of maps, lots of guns, and game modifying cheats/easter eggs. And like you mentioned, 4 player split screen was amazing. There have certainly been simpler FPS made since, I didn't think he meant all.
 
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60. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 22:25 NKD
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 21:36:
Verno wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 14:42:
If Quake was released today Johnny Console FPS would think its a piece of garbage but that doesn't really mean anything either. Both were great titles for their time and I'd even say hold up well in the most important regards but they are certainly not without their retrospective warts.

Even the console guys have seen everything change. Halo and Goldeneye, the games that brought FPS to consoles, were much different and more complex than games released today. Dumbing down is not about platforms, it never was... it's just about mass-market versus niche-market.

Goldeneye complex? It was an awesome game, don't get me wrong, but it was pretty bare bones in terms of complexity. You had your typical array of weapons and mines, and bad guys to use them on. If anything, Goldeneye's simplicity is part of its charm. It made the split-screen multiplayer amazingly fun.
 
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59. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 22:12 durandal
 
I'm afraid how good the next installment will be, it's bound to be harshly criticized.
They took too long since that cliffhanger ending, and the expectation of Half-Life fans are pretty high after this many years.
They should have just released Episode 3 sooner and at least put a period to Half-Life 2, however it was.
 
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58. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 21:36 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 14:42:
If Quake was released today Johnny Console FPS would think its a piece of garbage but that doesn't really mean anything either. Both were great titles for their time and I'd even say hold up well in the most important regards but they are certainly not without their retrospective warts.

Even the console guys have seen everything change. Halo and Goldeneye, the games that brought FPS to consoles, were much different and more complex than games released today. Dumbing down is not about platforms, it never was... it's just about mass-market versus niche-market.
 
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57. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 21:05 Sepharo
 
Dev I think you're putting too much dysfunction into your Valve hypotheticals. There is no way they've got multiple different teams working on the same projects doing duplicate and conflicting work. Reboots, changes in directions, that makes sense but I don't see an Apple-esque battle of teams that you imagined in your previous post.  
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56. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 20:56 wtf_man
 
Fuck Valve and Fuck Gabe.

Oh, and while I'm at it... Fuck the Black Mesa Mod team, too.
 
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55. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 18:43 Dev
 
You know, I wonder if the reason stuff by others has gotten finished by valve in reasonable amounts of time is because the team that gets hired by valve has a mostly unified vision and knows what they want to do to get the game done.  
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54. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 16:25 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 16:19:
eunichron wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 15:59:
But remember L4D and Portal (and CS, TF, Dota, Alien Swarm, and DoD) weren't created by Valve. They were mod teams that got "absorbed" into Valve (bought out essentially, but I don't think those mod teams minded being bought out and employed by Valve). Half-Life is Valve's only original IP, and they haven't done anything with it in 5 years.

Maybe the ideas but if you saw Turtle Rock's preview builds for L4D1 or how rough Portal was as Narbacular Drop then unquestionably Valve put a lot of work and polish into those games. Valve is pretty much the best incubator in the industry right now and they do a lot of that work themselves. They don't just absorb the mod teams work and throw a Valve stamp on it or something. To say that they haven't done anything original in years seems like a silly aside, they were never about a huge portfolio in the first place and many "original" properties have emerged through their stewardship.

Even just from the perspective of the writing the OMM guys do that made L4D and Portal so memorable (not to single them out exclusively, but I think Wolpaw is the driving force there.)

I agree that Valve is the best incubator (and one of the only incubators, arguably) going. It takes some economic freedom that few others have, but it also takes smarts even fewer have.
 
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53. Re: Valve on <strike>Half-Life 3</strike> Ricochet 2 Apr 23, 2012, 16:19 Verno
 
eunichron wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 15:59:
But remember L4D and Portal (and CS, TF, Dota, Alien Swarm, and DoD) weren't created by Valve. They were mod teams that got "absorbed" into Valve (bought out essentially, but I don't think those mod teams minded being bought out and employed by Valve). Half-Life is Valve's only original IP, and they haven't done anything with it in 5 years.

Maybe the ideas but if you saw Turtle Rock's preview builds for L4D1 or how rough Portal was as Narbacular Drop then unquestionably Valve put a lot of work and polish into those games. Valve is pretty much the best incubator in the industry right now and they do a lot of that work themselves. They don't just absorb the mod teams work and throw a Valve stamp on it or something. To say that they haven't done anything original in years seems like a silly aside, they were never about a huge portfolio in the first place and many "original" properties have emerged through their stewardship.
 
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