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Human Head Off Prey 2?

Human Head has not worked on Prey 2 since November, reports Shacknews citing a "source who asked not to be identified." According to their story, the developer on the first-person shooter sequel stopped working on the game as a negotiating ploy to get a better deal with ZeniMax, and that today's announcement that Prey 2 is delayed suggests a new developer may be announced for the project as a result. That would also explain why Human Head recently raised the possibility of developing Rune 2, and the Shack story indicates Human Head's negotiations to work on a high profile project are going well. They also have the following noncommittal response from ZeniMax to questions about all this: "we aren't commenting on the game's development beyond what was said in the statement that was released this morning."

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35. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 21, 2012, 15:35 Jerykk
 
But see this speaks directly to my point... that's just CDP's angle, their way of getting headlines and attention and hopefully sales and loyal customers. Now you can say "well I like that method of persuasion" and sure, so do I, but never doubt for a minute that if TW2 sells better on Xbox they will be console devs from then on, or if their publisher wants to sell some DLC they will do so.

No, I don't think they would do that. If they only cared about making profit by any means, as you suggest, they wouldn't have offered any free DLC in the first place and the Enhanced Edition upgrades would never have been provided for free for existing owners. When they decided to remove the game's DRM from the publisher-distributed retail versions, they did so against Namco's will. They directly opposed a publisher in favor of the customers. They're also offering free GOG.com DRM-free copies of Witcher 2 to anyone who bought the game from anywhere else. Again, they don't have to do this but they believe that generating good will from their customers will ultimately result in better business.

So again, while there are many ways to generate profit, not all of these ways involve screwing the customer and there are companies that understand this.
 
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34. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 21, 2012, 11:45 Dades
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 21, 2012, 07:37:
Jerykk wrote on Apr 21, 2012, 04:17:
Yes, all businesses exist to maximize profit. However, there are many ways to achieve this goal, with some being more respectful to customers than others. For example, CD Projekt didn't have to give away all the Witcher 2 DLC for free. They didn't have to allow existing customers of Witcher 2 to have a free upgrade to the Enhanced Edition. It would have been easier for them to go the Capcom route and charge everyone for these things. But they didn't. They decided that the best way to maximize profit was to respect their customers and treat them well, not try to nickel and dime them.

Then you have businesses like Capcom that charge customers for even the most trivial of DLC (like costume palette swaps) or minor upgrades (Super Street Fighter 4, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom, Resident Evil 5 Gold, etc). Or Microsoft, whose business practices revolve around screwing anyone who doesn't own an Xbox (and a LIVE Gold account). While these practices may generate revenue, they don't generate good will amongst customers and potential customers.

But see this speaks directly to my point... that's just CDP's angle, their way of getting headlines and attention and hopefully sales and loyal customers. Now you can say "well I like that method of persuasion" and sure, so do I, but never doubt for a minute that if TW2 sells better on Xbox they will be console devs from then on, or if their publisher wants to sell some DLC they will do so.

It's all about the money. I just can't see ever saying something like "Valve are my bros" when I know everything they do is designed to get my cash, just like EA. If anything I kind of respect EA's lack of bullshitting you.

They could have been console devs the entire time if money was all they cared about. I feel sorry for you. You seem to think like some Wall Street movie caricature that doesn't understand how social interactions affect business. Everyone wants to make money but they don't all do it at the rest of the worlds expense. Take an internship at a real corporation sometime and let us know if Gordon Gekko shows up.
 
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33. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 21, 2012, 07:37 StingingVelvet
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 21, 2012, 04:17:
Yes, all businesses exist to maximize profit. However, there are many ways to achieve this goal, with some being more respectful to customers than others. For example, CD Projekt didn't have to give away all the Witcher 2 DLC for free. They didn't have to allow existing customers of Witcher 2 to have a free upgrade to the Enhanced Edition. It would have been easier for them to go the Capcom route and charge everyone for these things. But they didn't. They decided that the best way to maximize profit was to respect their customers and treat them well, not try to nickel and dime them.

Then you have businesses like Capcom that charge customers for even the most trivial of DLC (like costume palette swaps) or minor upgrades (Super Street Fighter 4, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom, Resident Evil 5 Gold, etc). Or Microsoft, whose business practices revolve around screwing anyone who doesn't own an Xbox (and a LIVE Gold account). While these practices may generate revenue, they don't generate good will amongst customers and potential customers.

But see this speaks directly to my point... that's just CDP's angle, their way of getting headlines and attention and hopefully sales and loyal customers. Now you can say "well I like that method of persuasion" and sure, so do I, but never doubt for a minute that if TW2 sells better on Xbox they will be console devs from then on, or if their publisher wants to sell some DLC they will do so.

It's all about the money. I just can't see ever saying something like "Valve are my bros" when I know everything they do is designed to get my cash, just like EA. If anything I kind of respect EA's lack of bullshitting you.
 
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32. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 21, 2012, 04:17 Jerykk
 
It's not that I defend businesses, I just expect them to act like businesses.

I guess that's the inherent issue here. Businesses are run by people. Their very existence depends on their interactions with other people. Is it entirely surprising that some businesses are willing to sour their long-term relationships with clients and customers in favor of short-term gains? No, it's not really surprising at all. Should it be considered acceptable? No, it really shouldn't. You can choose to be apathetic and say "eh, whatever, that's just what they do," or you can choose to be angry and chastise them. I generally prefer being angry, as anger is more likely to lead to change. Apathy has never led to anything but corruption and exploitation.

This website seems obsessed with the idea of "good companies" and "bad companies" when it's all PR bullshit. They all want your money, they will all do whatever it takes to get the most of it they can.

Yes, all businesses exist to maximize profit. However, there are many ways to achieve this goal, with some being more respectful to customers than others. For example, CD Projekt didn't have to give away all the Witcher 2 DLC for free. They didn't have to allow existing customers of Witcher 2 to have a free upgrade to the Enhanced Edition. It would have been easier for them to go the Capcom route and charge everyone for these things. But they didn't. They decided that the best way to maximize profit was to respect their customers and treat them well, not try to nickel and dime them.

Then you have businesses like Capcom that charge customers for even the most trivial of DLC (like costume palette swaps) or minor upgrades (Super Street Fighter 4, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom, Resident Evil 5 Gold, etc). Or Microsoft, whose business practices revolve around screwing anyone who doesn't own an Xbox (and a LIVE Gold account). While these practices may generate revenue, they don't generate good will amongst customers and potential customers.

This comment was edited on Apr 21, 2012, 04:31.
 
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31. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 21, 2012, 03:17 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 14:11:
You keep saying that as if its a shield from everything. Being a business doesn't mean that you are suddenly excused from any moral judgments others make for your actions, individually or otherwise. You make these judgments all the time involving Valve for example. The game sold exceedingly well, beyond Bethesdas projections. They could have rewarded them for their performance instead of clinging to an arbitrary clause ironically intended to protect them from poor sales in the first place.

You seem unable to separate the consumer from the business perspective but that's really your problem, not anyone else. No one here has said that Obsidian isn't at fault for signing the contract nor that Bethesda doesn't have a right to do business. They are just saying Bethesda had an opportunity to do something decent for a developer that made a great product and instead chose an out. This resulted in real people losing their jobs. Obsidian isn't blameless but neither is Bethesda even if they did it for business reasons. They aren't "evil" or something silly but it was a shitty thing to do.

I just can't for the life of me imagine a business ever doing the type of thing you seem to expect them to do. The reward that makes sense is offering Obsidian a better deal the next go-around and giving them more work, but if they have been whining about the contract they probably screwed themselves on that.

Anyway, the goes back to my entire point about Valve, which has always been "they are not your friends." I just don't see this chummy relationship you guys seek with businesses to ever be possible, nor do I think judging a business for wanting to make as much money as possible is right. Their job is to make as much money as possible.

It's not that I defend businesses, I just expect them to act like businesses.
 
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30. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 16:45 Tanto Edge
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 13:26:
This website seems obsessed with the idea of "good companies" and "bad companies" when it's all PR bullshit. They all want your money, they will all do whatever it takes to get the most of it they can.

That's not entirely true.
Valve has proven time and again that they don't want all our money, so to speak. They're happy with their license to print it.
Activision wants all our money. EA wants all our money (and our souls if they're up for grabs).
Positech Games isn't after all my money. Taleworlds isn't after all my money.

There are good companies and those companies are out to make good games.

Guys like Harebrained Schemes... the jury is out as far as I'm concerned.
They collected half a mill on good will, another half on excitement, and now are raising another half mill somewhat dubiously (half a mill for an exclusive dlc!? up your ass you fucking jerks, make the fucking game).
 
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29. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 14:11 Verno
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 13:26:
I'm not saying they are saints, I am saying they are a business and out to make money like any other business. If Obsidian signed a contract why the fuck would Bethesda give them more money than it stipulated?

You keep saying that as if its a shield from everything. Being a business doesn't mean that you are suddenly excused from any moral judgments others make for your actions, individually or otherwise. You make these judgments all the time involving Valve for example. The game sold exceedingly well, beyond Bethesdas projections. They could have rewarded them for their performance instead of clinging to an arbitrary clause ironically intended to protect them from poor sales in the first place.

You seem unable to separate the consumer from the business perspective but that's really your problem, not anyone else. No one here has said that Obsidian isn't at fault for signing the contract nor that Bethesda doesn't have a right to do business. They are just saying Bethesda had an opportunity to do something decent for a developer that made a great product and instead chose an out. This resulted in real people losing their jobs. Obsidian isn't blameless but neither is Bethesda even if they did it for business reasons. They aren't "evil" or something silly but it was a shitty thing to do.

My company gives people payment discounts and if an otherwise solid customer is one day late we don't bone them out of the interest percentage just because it will maximize profit. Likewise my company could have boned everyone on performance benefits and profit sharing last year because we missed projections but they still did it because we were damned close in a rough economic period.

This website seems obsessed with the idea of "good companies" and "bad companies" when it's all PR bullshit. They all want your money, they will all do whatever it takes to get the most of it they can.

There are companies who do business in better ways with a modicum of consideration for the human element of business transactions, yes. As for what this website is obsessed with that's just subjective fluff.

This comment was edited on Apr 20, 2012, 14:16.
 
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28. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 13:26 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 12:05:
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 11:52:
How are simple and clear contract terms "technicalities"?

Again, we are not in a court of law here, this is a comment board on a gaming website. No one is judging its legality which makes your entire assertion meaningless. People are saying it was a shitty thing for them to do just because they could, there are many examples of companies doing the opposite in society. They made a conscious choice and people are criticizing them for it regardless of how valid it might have been legally.

I'm not saying they are saints, I am saying they are a business and out to make money like any other business. If Obsidian signed a contract why the fuck would Bethesda give them more money than it stipulated?

This website seems obsessed with the idea of "good companies" and "bad companies" when it's all PR bullshit. They all want your money, they will all do whatever it takes to get the most of it they can.
 
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27. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 12:05 Verno
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 11:52:
How are simple and clear contract terms "technicalities"?

Again, we are not in a court of law here, this is a comment board on a gaming website. No one is judging its legality which makes your entire assertion meaningless. People are saying it was a shitty thing for them to do just because they could, there are many examples of companies doing the opposite in society. They made a conscious choice and people are criticizing them for it regardless of how valid it might have been legally.
 
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26. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 11:52 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 11:44:
You sound like a lawyer trying to excuse weasel behavior through technicalities. They could have given them anything but chose to use a contract technicality to get out of it. The fact that you think that's ok because its the letter of the contract doesn't mean the rest of us can't point out how shitty it was considering how successful the product was.

How are simple and clear contract terms "technicalities"?
 
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25. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 11:44 Verno
 
It's not an excuse, it's a reason they're not being shitty. No business is going to say "well hey, screw the contract, you guys did good work... here's a bonus." Expecting that is ridiculous.

Of course that happens, in fact it happens most often with successful products. It happens with companies and their employees in the form of bonuses and so on, there are hundreds of real world examples. No, it's not a contractual requirement but likewise it doesn't mean that they can't be criticized just because you say so.

You sound like a lawyer trying to excuse weasel behavior through technicalities. They could have given them anything but chose to use a contract technicality to get out of it. The fact that you think that's ok because its the letter of the contract doesn't mean the rest of us can't point out how shitty it was considering how successful the product was.
 
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24. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 11:25 StingingVelvet
 
Dades wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 07:46:
You can't just throw around the word business to excuse all corporate misdeeds and bad PR moves. When they do something shitty people are going to talk about it, stop bleating about a hate train.

It's not an excuse, it's a reason they're not being shitty. No business is going to say "well hey, screw the contract, you guys did good work... here's a bonus." Expecting that is ridiculous.
 
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23. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 10:09 sauron
 
Verno wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 09:19:
Boning them over a single percentage point is a short term greed approach that will just come back to bite you in the long run.

nin wrote on Apr 19, 2012, 21:45:
Yeah, it sounds like it bit them in the ass...switching devs mid production causes my interest to go from mild to nonexistent.

What is this obsession with getting bitten in the ass by a Human Head?

To quote Audrey Hepburn, 'I never bite, unless it's called for.'
 
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22. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 09:20 nin
 
TychoCelchuuu wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 01:39:
Yuioup wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 01:33:
Seriously who really cares about Prey 2? I picked up Prey for 4 euros in a bargain bin about a year after it came out. I like the game but I never see any mention of it ...

Are people really waiting to play Prey 2?
Anyone who has been paying the slightest attention to the game before all this crazy stuff started happening was probably super excited. It looked amazing (and nothing like the first Prey, so it doesn't really matter how cheap you bought that game for).

Exactly. Do a little research...

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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21. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 09:19 Verno
 
The metacritic thing with Obsidian was indefensible, contract or not. The game sold well, Bethesda made a lot of money on both it and its DLC. Boning them over a single percentage point is a short term greed approach that will just come back to bite you in the long run. Most developers are lucky to get work without being part of the corporate umbrella these days, so using the "well dont sign a contract!!!!" excuse is just childish and ignores the realities of the industry.  
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20. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 09:10 Parallax Abstraction
 
Dades wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 07:46:
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 06:04:
Everyone is jumping on the Bethesda hate-train lately but if you sign a contract you should fulfill it, not whine about wanting better terms. Same goes for Obsidian and the metacritic thing with Fallout: New Vegas.

And the "scrolls" shit is needed because US trademark law is so fucked.

Bethesda are a business like any other, no more or less evil.

You can't just throw around the word business to excuse all corporate misdeeds and bad PR moves. When they do something shitty people are going to talk about it, stop bleating about a hate train.

This. "It's just business" has become the universal excuse for why companies do shit things and it's not good enough. That you're representing some corporate brand is not an excuse to not be a bloody person.
 
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19. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 07:46 Dades
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 06:04:
Everyone is jumping on the Bethesda hate-train lately but if you sign a contract you should fulfill it, not whine about wanting better terms. Same goes for Obsidian and the metacritic thing with Fallout: New Vegas.

And the "scrolls" shit is needed because US trademark law is so fucked.

Bethesda are a business like any other, no more or less evil.

You can't just throw around the word business to excuse all corporate misdeeds and bad PR moves. When they do something shitty people are going to talk about it, stop bleating about a hate train.
 
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18. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 06:04 StingingVelvet
 
Everyone is jumping on the Bethesda hate-train lately but if you sign a contract you should fulfill it, not whine about wanting better terms. Same goes for Obsidian and the metacritic thing with Fallout: New Vegas.

And the "scrolls" shit is needed because US trademark law is so fucked.

Bethesda are a business like any other, no more or less evil.
 
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17. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 06:03 StingingVelvet
 
Yuioup wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 01:33:
Seriously who really cares about Prey 2? I picked up Prey for 4 euros in a bargain bin about a year after it came out. I like the game but I never see any mention of it ...

Are people really waiting to play Prey 2?

NAMES ON THE BOX ARE ALL THAT MATTERS I PAID NO ATTENTION TO PREVIEWS!
 
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16. Re: Human Head Off Prey 2? Apr 20, 2012, 04:57 theyarecomingforyou
 
Yuioup wrote on Apr 20, 2012, 01:33:
Seriously who really cares about Prey 2? I picked up Prey for 4 euros in a bargain bin about a year after it came out. I like the game but I never see any mention of it ...
Actually, now that you mention it I also picked up Prey when it hit ultra-bargain bin - it was just 5. It was a game that I enjoyed but would never have paid full price for.
 
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