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Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+

The Kickstarter Campaign for Wasteland 2 has concluded, with inXile entertainment's post-apocalyptic RPG sequel taking in well over triple its initial USD $900K goal. The finally take listed on the website is $2,933,197, though a note on Shacknews states that this does not count almost $110K in PayPal pledges, so the final total exceeds $3 million. Update: Apologies for misstating the "kick forward" principle at first, which is a pledge of 5% of the project'a eventual profits, not these pledges. Thanks Alex.

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62 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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22. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 15:27 JediPunisher
 
I donated $250 to the project... That might not be the wisest investment, but I miss the old school tactical rpgs.
Besides, I could always place that signed collector's edition on eBay.
 
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21. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 15:18 Orogogus
 
MacLeod wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 14:52:
Beelzebud wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 14:43:
No sympathy for that team that blew 3 grand on a trip to Pax East instead of putting in to development costs of their game. Trade shows are not essential to development at all.

Yea, if I'd donated, I'd be a bit ticked at the PAX and iPad thing. (which they bought for PAX because they realized they didn't want to demo the game on their personal phones there.)

What I want to know is who has the SSI / Avalon Hill property rights to Star Command and when are they going to come out and demand a name change?

Wikipedia's description of SSI's Star Command sounds a lot like this new Star Command game:

"The player creates a crew of eight characters. The crew completes missions from Star Command to earn credits and train personnel. The crew can explore planets to obtain valuable elements, and can board intact enemy ships to fight their foes man-to-man and commandeer the enemy ship"

I'm 97% sure that the Wikipedia article is wrong when it says Star Command was based on an Avalon Hill game. No such boardgame shows up on any searches, and the video game manual doesn't make any acknowledgment whatsoever.

As far as the video game rights, as far as I know they're held by Ubisoft. But SSI went through some acquisitions before getting there, and I wouldn't be surprised if all their lesser known games are in legal obscurity now. I've always wondered how Take 2 was able to use the Stronghold name.
 
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20. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 15:01 ASeven
 
Yes, agree, Creston and Draugr are spot on, I believe. Too much ado about nothing.

And sent some money Grim Dawn's way even though I already had pre-ordered it. That's a game I really want to see come true.
 
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19. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 14:57 Draugr
 
Creston wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 14:01:
ASeven wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 13:17:
I sure hope so and I am well aware that without rewards many kickstarters wouldn't be kickstarted successfully in the first place. I'm just a bit worried with overhead after reading this article here, that's all. I sure as hell don't want awesome projects like this to fail for any reason, including overhead.

To be honest, that article is not indicative of how most Kickstarters work.

Let me just quote a particular section that really actually kind of irked me:

After that, we had $22,000 remaining. From there:

Music - $6,000
Attorneys, startup fees, CPA - $4000
Poster art - $2000
iPads - $1000
PAX East - $3000

TOTAL: $16,000

Now, I don't know what these guys promised, but paying for their attorneys, iPads and a fucking trip to PAX East out of their kickstarter funds?? I'd be ROYALLY pissed if that's what they spent my donated money on.

Fargo and Weisman have both said they will use their funds solely and alone on the game. Every dollar goes into the game. (Though Weisman has said that if they get enough money, they may buy some new computers for their office. That would benefit game design, so okay.)

If some dev said "Yeah, I'll use this funds to pay for my rent, and my laundry, and my lunches, and my attorney fees, and taking my girlfriend to see a musical", I wouldn't give him a dime.

Again, I don't know what these guys promised in their kickstarter, but they seem like a completely new dev that still had to start an actual company, and they are spending the donated money on absolute bullshit stuff. Both Fargo and Weisman have established companies and have pledged to use the donated money to make a better game.

I think it's kinda apples and oranges, to be honest, and it's typical Kotaku BS to pretend that every Kickstarter only gets 16-17% of the funds to spend on the actual game.

Creston

This article speaks to these peoples incompetence, not a failure on kickstarter or its implementation.

Just goes to show you should be smart who your giving your money to.
 
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18. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 14:52 MacLeod
 
Beelzebud wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 14:43:
No sympathy for that team that blew 3 grand on a trip to Pax East instead of putting in to development costs of their game. Trade shows are not essential to development at all.

Yea, if I'd donated, I'd be a bit ticked at the PAX and iPad thing. (which they bought for PAX because they realized they didn't want to demo the game on their personal phones there.)

What I want to know is who has the SSI / Avalon Hill property rights to Star Command and when are they going to come out and demand a name change?

Wikipedia's description of SSI's Star Command sounds a lot like this new Star Command game:

"The player creates a crew of eight characters. The crew completes missions from Star Command to earn credits and train personnel. The crew can explore planets to obtain valuable elements, and can board intact enemy ships to fight their foes man-to-man and commandeer the enemy ship"

 
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17. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 14:43 Beelzebud
 
No sympathy for that team that blew 3 grand on a trip to Pax East instead of putting in to development costs of their game. Trade shows are not essential to development at all.  
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16. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 14:36 Dmitri_M
 
On the Takedown forum, the guy in charge is talking about how they're "currently shopping around for an office".

I wonder if that came out of the 200 000 he made from the kickstarter? I have a feeling it does. I did give a small amount to that kickstarter because I want that sort of FPS genre revived, I want my money used for the development of a game though - not for him to get office space. I thought all of that was in place prior to the kickstarter going live..
 
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15. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 14:01 Creston
 
ASeven wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 13:17:
I sure hope so and I am well aware that without rewards many kickstarters wouldn't be kickstarted successfully in the first place. I'm just a bit worried with overhead after reading this article here, that's all. I sure as hell don't want awesome projects like this to fail for any reason, including overhead.

To be honest, that article is not indicative of how most Kickstarters work.

Let me just quote a particular section that really actually kind of irked me:

After that, we had $22,000 remaining. From there:

Music - $6,000
Attorneys, startup fees, CPA - $4000
Poster art - $2000
iPads - $1000
PAX East - $3000

TOTAL: $16,000

Now, I don't know what these guys promised, but paying for their attorneys, iPads and a fucking trip to PAX East out of their kickstarter funds?? I'd be ROYALLY pissed if that's what they spent my donated money on.

Fargo and Weisman have both said they will use their funds solely and alone on the game. Every dollar goes into the game. (Though Weisman has said that if they get enough money, they may buy some new computers for their office. That would benefit game design, so okay.)

If some dev said "Yeah, I'll use this funds to pay for my rent, and my laundry, and my lunches, and my attorney fees, and taking my girlfriend to see a musical", I wouldn't give him a dime.

Again, I don't know what these guys promised in their kickstarter, but they seem like a completely new dev that still had to start an actual company, and they are spending the donated money on absolute bullshit stuff. Both Fargo and Weisman have established companies and have pledged to use the donated money to make a better game.

I think it's kinda apples and oranges, to be honest, and it's typical Kotaku BS to pretend that every Kickstarter only gets 16-17% of the funds to spend on the actual game.

Creston
 
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14. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 13:57 Riker
 
Excellent! $15 was a bargain. Can't wait to see what they do with it.  
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13. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 13:53 Creston
 
Btw, Grim Dawn has gone the Kickstarter way:

clicky clicky


I'm torn. On the one hand, I thoroughly enjoyed Titan's Quest (in fact, I still do.)

On the other hand, I was extremely pissed off at these guys when they released their expansion and it royally fucked the game with the rubberbanding bug, which they never, ever fucking fixed. And yes, I know, the publisher didn't want to pay for any more patches and blablabla... You introduce a bug that hits everybody across all types of hardware, that breaks not just the expansion but THE ORIGINAL GAME TOO, and imo you should man the fuck up and fix that. Don't just hide behind the tired "The publisher won't pay, waaah!" bullshit excuse.

There have been quite a few devs who have worked on stuff on the side, created patches in their free time, added content in their free time, etc. And I don't expect anyone to work for free to give me more content, but a fucking game-breaking bug like that should be FIXED. And they never did.

So what's going to happen in Grim Dawn? The same kind of bullshit? No support once the game is released?

I'm a little wary.

Creston
 
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12. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 13:53 John
 
nin wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 10:19:
Woot WOOT!

Very exciting! Was hoping this one would do well, but I didn't expect it to hit 3 million.

I'm surprised they got that much too but I'm glad to see they did! I backed at the $50 level because I wanted a physical copy and I like that it comes with a cloth map too.
 
This space is available for rent
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11. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 13:17 ASeven
 
Creston wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 11:20:

Kickstarters really have to cut on rewards. Rewards create such a huge overhead that it can jeopardize any project, even those that gain a lot of money like this. Do digital rewards like wallpapers or cosmetic stuff for backers that at least don't cost as much as physical rewards like shirts and boxed editions and all that. This is the first big problem that is now facing kickstarters and it must be resolved fast, rewards are eating away at too much of the money they earn.


I think the big cost of the rewards is shipping. Mass producing a bunch of t-shirts, boxes and other paraphernalia only costs a few bucks per item. Add around 5 bucks in postage, and you're done.

And sure, that 10 or 15 bucks per person for the rewards is all coming out of the 3 million pot, but the idea that they need to "cut back" on those rewards to save their pot is incredibly short-sighted. Without those rewards, few people would bother putting in more than $15, so their pot would have been maybe 1 million instead of 3 million then. If someone pledges 50 bucks, that's 35 bucks extra over the minimum, and they can afford to spend 15 bucks on goodies if someone just gave 35 extra dollars.

They're in fine shape.

I sure hope so and I am well aware that without rewards many kickstarters wouldn't be kickstarted successfully in the first place. I'm just a bit worried with overhead after reading this article here, that's all. I sure as hell don't want awesome projects like this to fail for any reason, including overhead.
 
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10. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 13:07 Dmitri_M
 
Elf Shot The Food wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 11:00:
I read somewhere that lots of these Kickstarters are just being done to fund demos to show to publishers.
Instead of "somewhere", why not try reading on the actual kickstarter's pages?

The only major one I know of with that intent is Takedown, which is shopping for investors, not publishers.
 
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9. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 12:22 wonkawonka
 
And where shipping really matters (international) they request that you pledge an additional $10-15 to cover the cost.
So I don't think they'll "waste" more than 10% of the budget on handling the rewards and the transaction fees. That will leave them with $2.7MM to work with.

Digging into it some more, it's only at the $50 pledge and above that you get physical rewards. That's 8000 regular boxes to ship. Then at $100 they need to ship deluxe boxes to 5000 backers.
So to less than 13,000 (don't know how many are international) people you need to ship a box in the US. Say the whole thing costs $10/box, that's $130,000 and it's massively overstated.

I don't think they'll get even close to my original estimate of 10% of budget going to rewards and transaction fees.
 
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8. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 11:20 Creston
 
wtf_man wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 10:26:
15% of that is gone off the top (Kickstarter, Amazon, and Kicked Forward). Then you got whatever Pay Pal takes, the cost of the backer "Rewards", and then the government puts it's hand out as well.

The just might get 900k after all... maybe.

Amazon takes a percentage, but I believe it's pretty minor, in the range of 2%-3% or something. Kicked Forward ONLY comes out of profits, and not out of these pledges. Finally, while Paypal does take a 4% or 5% chunk, that's out of 110K, so in the grand scheme of things it's trivial.

So all in all, of the 3 million, they pay Amazon around 60-90K, leaving them with plenty of change to work with.


Kickstarters really have to cut on rewards. Rewards create such a huge overhead that it can jeopardize any project, even those that gain a lot of money like this. Do digital rewards like wallpapers or cosmetic stuff for backers that at least don't cost as much as physical rewards like shirts and boxed editions and all that. This is the first big problem that is now facing kickstarters and it must be resolved fast, rewards are eating away at too much of the money they earn.


I think the big cost of the rewards is shipping. Mass producing a bunch of t-shirts, boxes and other paraphernalia only costs a few bucks per item. Add around 5 bucks in postage, and you're done.

And sure, that 10 or 15 bucks per person for the rewards is all coming out of the 3 million pot, but the idea that they need to "cut back" on those rewards to save their pot is incredibly short-sighted. Without those rewards, few people would bother putting in more than $15, so their pot would have been maybe 1 million instead of 3 million then. If someone pledges 50 bucks, that's 35 bucks extra over the minimum, and they can afford to spend 15 bucks on goodies if someone just gave 35 extra dollars.

They're in fine shape.

Creston
 
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7. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 11:09 nin
 
Elf Shot The Food wrote on Apr 17, 2012, 11:00:
I read somewhere that lots of these Kickstarters are just being done to fund demos to show to publishers.

Excluding Takedown, who said that from the start, can you provide a link?

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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6. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 11:00 Elf Shot The Food
 
I read somewhere that lots of these Kickstarters are just being done to fund demos to show to publishers.  
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5. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 10:54 ASeven
 
Kickstarters really have to cut on rewards. Rewards create such a huge overhead that it can jeopardize any project, even those that gain a lot of money like this. Do digital rewards like wallpapers or cosmetic stuff for backers that at least don't cost as much as physical rewards like shirts and boxed editions and all that. This is the first big problem that is now facing kickstarters and it must be resolved fast, rewards are eating away at too much of the money they earn.  
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4. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 10:36 InBlack
 
This is good news....I think...  
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I have a nifty blue line!
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3. Re: Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Concludes at $3M+ Apr 17, 2012, 10:35 Matchstick
 
Slight correction but the 5% which is kicked forward ISN'T 5% of the money raised by Kickstarter but instead is 5% of the profits from whatever it was that Kickstarter funded.

Any developer that puts the KickingItForward.org URL on their Kickstarter project page is agreeing that they will put 5% of their finished product profits back into other Kickstarter projects. To be abundantly clear, this is only money that the developer earns as profit AFTER the project ships and AFTER they have paid their expenses. This is NOT a suggestion to invest money they received from people who invested into their project via Kickstarter.

http://kickingitforward.org/
 
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62 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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