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Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned

In spite of EA saying the original "under-performed," a sequel to Bulletstorm was in the works at People Can Fly before being cancelled by parent company Epic Games reports GameSpot, who hear from Epic president Mike Capps on the topic. Mike indicates they have put the Polish developer on a different project they will "be announcing pretty soon," though there is no clue if this is the recently revealed PC game Epic is planning. "We thought a lot about a sequel, and had done some initial development on it, but we found a project that we thought was a better fit for People Can Fly," he said. "We haven't announced that yet, but we will be announcing it pretty soon." He goes on to praise Bulletstorm and says he'd love to go back to the property, "but right now we don't have anything to talk about." Just to stir the pot a little, the story concludes with Capps' comment that sales of the PC version may have been harmed by piracy: "We made a PC version of Bulletstorm, and it didn't do very well on PC and I think a lot of that was due to piracy. It wasn't the best PC port ever, sure, but also piracy was a pretty big problem."

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239. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 17, 2012, 10:25 Chromius
 
Link on Blues yesterday.

Web freedom facing greatest threat: Google founder.

This thread started over a bad console port passing blame onto piracy.

This is why using the piracy card and blowing it out of proportion is going to have bad effects, as we know that its actual effect's are close to ten times less than what they make it out to be.

There is plenty of real info out there to prove that they want to pass a variety of laws that will make internet in the US as restrictive as China's and everything you do on said internet will be recorded and possibly used against you. They will eventually pass said laws.

True Story.

But all is well lets made bad games and bad console ports and blame piracy, just like the rest.

Keep yourself updated these people update you whenever new legislation or some related bill is being attempted to be passed. http://blog.demandprogress.org/campaigns/

You will be amazed.
 
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238. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 15, 2012, 11:21 Prez
 
So you are saying Veterator, that PC games are like the same as anit-aids drugs?

I've never meet a person who would die if they cant get there PC games.

I've meet two who would die sooner if they could not get there anit-aids drugs (which in this country , NZ, and paid for by the goverment)

ENTERTANTMENT is not a right of life.

This typical, stupid strawman argument is as annoying as it is tired. Not a fucking person has ever claimed that.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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237. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 23:20 Veterator
 
Kosumo wrote on Apr 14, 2012, 20:31:
So you are saying Veterator, that PC games are like the same as anit-aids drugs?

I've never meet a person who would die if they cant get there PC games.

I've meet two who would die sooner if they could not get there anit-aids drugs (which in this country , NZ, and paid for by the goverment)

ENTERTANTMENT is not a right of life.

To steal it is to steal it, not a 'I only stole the beard so my family could eat' type of stealing.

The funny side being that those stealing only help to make less of it in the future.

I am saying that people tolerating something is not the same as them not caring.

If that's the only way they can get their entertainment, that's what they have to tolerate. It does not mean they don't care that many things are being forced upon them in the name of something they have no part in (piracy), assuming they are even told of them.

If the only way you can treat aids is with pills, you take pills or die of aids sooner. Here in the states, medical treatment is not a right of life...so it's vastly more comparable. If I want to breath, I have to take albuterol or some equivalent.

They deemed Albuterol based on CFCs about 5-6 years ago against the environmental laws due to CFCs, so they eliminated the CFC and came up with a new concoction that barely delivers the medication to your lungs during a full blown attack and I find it vastly inferior. So now on top of having an inhaler that doesn't work as well, I also take inhaled steroids to prevent the attacks from happening because the inhalers are no longer effective enough to treat it. I'd love to go back to a more effective AND cheaper CFC based albuterol....it'd save me about 40-60 bucks every 2-3 months and lower my insurance rates because I'd be on less medication to simply breath. I know something else better exists and is cheaper, yet I am not able to get it due to the CFC laws in the US pertaining to medication you mostly suck into your lungs. It also gave rise to a new bunch of drugs that had no generics because albuterol was now a different formula AND less effective so they put a bunch of new stuff on the market that was insanely expensive and not covered by my insurance company. It's a pretty awesome business when you can get your old drugs banned for sale and put out a new non-generic to replace it.


Much like I am sure your friends would be upset to find out that a cure for aids had been discovered and possible for some time (Hypothetical, I am not saying there's a cure), but they passed a law to keep people on drug regiments because they view aids as an effective deterrent to prevent growth in prostitution (excuse) and it also just happens to be hugely profitable for the companies to treat instead of cure (true reason).

Or even if there was a drug that was vastly cheaper to make, had less side effects and the same or better results. But it was from a non-authorized drug company in NZ and the law says that unless the drug company has <arbitrary barrier to entry> beyond drug trials to prove the pills are safe, they can not sell them to NZ people. Getting them would then be "black market", but there's no good explanation as to why they can't sell the drugs in NZ except for <arbitrary barrier to entry> that all the big companies have. Maybe the drug companies go on and on about how black market pills like <miracle cure A> are hurting their business and it's illegal, plus it's possibly detrimental to patient health and will make all future medical costs from these authorized companies to be more expensive and restricted, so now they want to be informed on all blood tests done by these AIDS patients for these black market pills. And all of the cost of the more costly drugs, the tests and anything else they need to "combat black market pills" will be on the government's dime or the patient's dime.




Passing laws to prevent adaptation to changing markets and implementing controls in the hardware, software, and at the ISP level just reinforces their current model. They kill or cripple anything "new" that comes out with licensing fees and increasing subscription fees to catch up to it, at the same time many of the same companies own ISPs that are trying to limit broadband usage EXCEPT for their offerings don't count against it. Reinforcing their traditional model, they can't just produce content and let others distribute, they have to keep it in their hands so they can control and leverage it against other markets they dabble in.

None of this is to say that there are not common sense laws, like FDA approval on things to be sold for use. But we're getting into territory in the entertainment field where they control the policy makers, the investigation arm, distribution, creation, hardware, software, and want to control the task forces formed to investigate the very thing they are convinced it happening. It like the FDA belonging to a Healthcare(IAA) group and they can choose who stays and who goes, because they make the rules.
 
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236. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 20:31 Kosumo
 
So you are saying Veterator, that PC games are like the same as anit-aids drugs?

I've never meet a person who would die if they cant get there PC games.

I've meet two who would die sooner if they could not get there anit-aids drugs (which in this country , NZ, and paid for by the goverment)

ENTERTANTMENT is not a right of life.

To steal it is to steal it, not a 'I only stole the beard so my family could eat' type of stealing.

The funny side being that those stealing only help to make less of it in the future.
 
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235. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 13:14 Veterator
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 14, 2012, 06:15:
Veterator wrote on Apr 14, 2012, 05:55:
Oh man you got me. It's almost like you ignored everything you couldn't argue with and went for sarcasm instead. How did you see past it all?!?!

I love how your ego changes "none of your bullshit was worth replying to" into "oh man I can't handle your amazing genius."

Everything you wrote centered around this idea of not liking something but funding it anyway out of need. There is no need to play ME3. Everyone purchasing the game accepts the terms or else they wouldn't do so. We can whine about DLC, DRM and whatever else but the cold hard facts are consumers accept them, there is no force involved in entertainment.

Ah, so now we are dropping the consumer has all the power bit. Or they only do, when they don't need, but want an item that they can't otherwise get once the producer of said item slowly eliminates all other options. That kind of power, in a broad general market or a individual product. "I'd like all my games to be DRM free." versus "I want Mass Effect 3 on Steam."

And now unless they NEED it, consumers wouldn't buy something that they don't accept the terms to.....that are inside the box or agreed upon after they try to install it and are about 10 times longer than the drugs information they take. Or rival their owner's manual on their car. Or change with the passage of time as they work on eroding the rights you had back in the 80s to media shift or otherwise make a copy of your purchase. IE, What you bought 10 years ago is not the same today as it was back then, because we say so.

The entertainment industry is so much more than just video games. The cold hard "facts" presented by one side concerted side in any argument, who has a vested interest is portraying their point in a certain light can hardly be called "facts". And nothing independent, IE not paid for by them, agrees with the claims they make. Government and entertainment, especially music and movies lead a pretty incestuous bed swapping in and out people who have government ties and paying off people to vote for them. Big oil does the same crap. Money makes lots of things easier to come to terms with.

Let me know if you are able to opt out of ISP monitoring thanks to the music/movie industry and the government, because no one is forced when it comes to entertainment. And let me know how they are funding that stuff, I'll be happy to hear anything you find concerning those costs not being directly on the consumers shoulders. Oh and show me in the paperwork where these things are told to the subscriber of those services so they can make a truly informed decision....from the one ISP allowed to operate in their area with this in place.

Or if you can buy a television without HDCP, or even a video card soon that won't have HDCP on it. So you don't have to pay for the extra hassle of it being in there. Maybe we have to stick to S-Video for all of our non-invaded needs on the televisions....or DVI will be a "specialty" port.

BTW: LOL at ego change. You should go back and read your own comments and see how all that sarcastic stuff sounds when you cherry pick out a line and use sarcasm to make a pretend point. Amazing genius <laugh>.
 
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234. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 06:15 StingingVelvet
 
Veterator wrote on Apr 14, 2012, 05:55:
Oh man you got me. It's almost like you ignored everything you couldn't argue with and went for sarcasm instead. How did you see past it all?!?!

I love how your ego changes "none of your bullshit was worth replying to" into "oh man I can't handle your amazing genius."

Everything you wrote centered around this idea of not liking something but funding it anyway out of need. There is no need to play ME3. Everyone purchasing the game accepts the terms or else they wouldn't do so. We can whine about DLC, DRM and whatever else but the cold hard facts are consumers accept them, there is no force involved in entertainment.
 
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233. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 05:55 Veterator
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 14, 2012, 04:58:
Veterator wrote on Apr 13, 2012, 19:41:
People do lots of things they'd like to have an alternative to, but lacking an alternative they are stuck with what's there.

Yes, because you lack an alternative to playing Mass Effect 3.

Lordy...

Oh man you got me. It's almost like you ignored everything you couldn't argue with and went for sarcasm instead. How did you see past it all?!?!

 
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232. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 04:58 StingingVelvet
 
Veterator wrote on Apr 13, 2012, 19:41:
People do lots of things they'd like to have an alternative to, but lacking an alternative they are stuck with what's there.

Yes, because you lack an alternative to playing Mass Effect 3.

Lordy...
 
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231. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 14, 2012, 00:15 Creston
 
It wasn't the best PC port ever, sure, but also piracy was a pretty big problem.

"Yeah, we made a pretty shitty game, but hey, lookitallthempirates!"

Fuck you, Mike Capps. Isn't there a single guy working at Epic who is not a total fucking whining shitheel? If you hate the PC so much, GO THE FUCK AWAY. You haven't made a good game in like ten years. Nobody's gonna miss you.

Creston
 
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230. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 13, 2012, 19:41 Veterator
 
I don't agree with over use of pesticides yet my food is often prepared from foods that have been sprayed or treated.

I don't agree with using antibiotics in every circumstance, but I still take them when the doctor prescribes them to me.

I don't like having to take steroids or inhaled medications for my asthma, but I still do.

I don't like the idea of polluting the environment, but I drive a car.

I don't like the idea of scrapping perfectly good used vehicles for a credit on a new vehicle through cash for clunkers, but it happened.

I don't like having our troops in an open ended war that began on lies, but we're still there. Despite many people not supporting it after the truth came out.

People do lots of things they'd like to have an alternative to, but lacking an alternative they are stuck with what's there. If you pass laws to reinforce the status quo you will never get change. If you never get change, you are stuck with what's offered.

Your point is reinforcing something that there is no alternative to, simply because you reinforce it by claiming that only a minority cares or considers them wrong. Lots of people care, they might care LESS about them than say having clean drinking water but they care. It doesn't mean they have the time to post on this board to disagree with you. But claiming they don't care is ignoring the evidence that people have put out there in their choice of not purchasing or complaining about SOPA/PIPA and other laws. Or when they complain about movie quality or rehashes of the same old stuff every other year.

You may choose to not believe they care, but that's not going to actually solve a problem and will only create more by creating a false stance. If you are unwilling to even broach the subject with your consumer base and instead force it upon them, you are not giving a chance for people to be heard or represented.

Your point is predicated on a falsehood.

StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 13, 2012, 19:14:
But you are in the minority caring about such things, or even considering them wrong.

Repeating your same complaints doesn't change my point.
 
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229. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 13, 2012, 19:14 StingingVelvet
 
But you are in the minority caring about such things, or even considering them wrong.

Repeating your same complaints doesn't change my point.
 
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228. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 13, 2012, 19:08 Veterator
 
I am simply pointing out that what they say in regards to consumer "rights" and offerings they provide end up being more deception than actual need or desire.

No matter how much they get to "combat" <flavor of the decade> it will never be enough and it just ends up costing the consumer more due to all the doodads and verifications that are now installed in your hardware, software, and monitoring being paid for out of your fees on ISPs and what not.

You don't have a choice to opt out of any of this if ever want to own any kind of entertainment hardware like a television, dvd player or blu ray player. Or plan on using the internet, you're still paying for the privilege of being monitored because it ain't free and the conglomerates are not paying for it.

You might win on one front, but they are hammering at the doors, windows, roof, supports, and every other aspect of your consumer rights "house".

Think of it like the zombie invasion, they may be slow and stupid but eventually you'll tire and then you're done.

No one wants to live constantly berated by these companies, and yet they gain more and more access to your life through monitoring and taking over your alternative channels for entertainment.

The fact that it's taking place is the failing, it shouldn't even be up for debate because common sense says that meeting consumer needs is the best way to do business. Not passing laws and restricting access to the very thing you are trying to sell.

People care about this stuff, they just get presented these things in pretty packages and outright lied to...and then find out about the deception after the damage is done. They specifically target younger generations for their goods because they don't know enough to be skeptical when it comes to media conglomerates. And they target younger artists so they can lock them into contracts before they know enough to question. It's how they rested the rights to artist's works out of their hands for 50-80 years now. Look at Stan Lee and the creators of Superman. Or the guy who came up with V for Vendetta or the Watchmen.

The industry of entertainment has no integrity, they have literally been screwing people over for decades for their gain. Today is no different. Piracy is just their new mantra.


StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 13, 2012, 18:45:
Sorry it took a while to respond, but there's not much to say really.

All the stuff you are angry at them for is stuff most people don't care about. If they agreed with you they would fight or vote with their wallet, but they don't. You seem like you're more mad at consumers for not agreeing with you than the companies selling shit that sells.

 
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227. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 13, 2012, 18:45 StingingVelvet
 
Sorry it took a while to respond, but there's not much to say really.

All the stuff you are angry at them for is stuff most people don't care about. If they agreed with you they would fight or vote with their wallet, but they don't. You seem like you're more mad at consumers for not agreeing with you than the companies selling shit that sells.
 
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226. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 13, 2012, 06:24 Veterator
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 13, 2012, 03:00:

Well you're not their target market anymore anyway then. Which is fine as long as you don't expect them to cater to you.

And yet I still buy and play games. They are not even trying to get customers back in many areas of the entertainment field, instead they pass laws and put in DRM to shut out second hand sales trying to force people back to them.

Of course they want you to spend as much as possible on them, they're a business, their goal is to make money. How is this a surprise? Shit, how is this even wrong? Capitalism 101. It doesn't mean you have to spend a dime, but nor do you have to pirate anything.

Their goal is to make money, but you often don't find many businesses setting out to alienate all of their customers by selling them inferior products or nickel and dimeing them on extras that used to be included in the price. It's wrong because they are talking out of both sides of their mouth, one day you are a pirate and you need this DRM in your products to make sure you've paid and at the next moment they are putting out extra pay-for content for the product that everyone is stealing. Paying customers shouldn't even have to listen to this kind of bullshit, yet it's out there all.the.time.

Any other market place, someone else would have came in and ate their lunch by treating people better. The control through IP lockouts, technology lockouts, and sheer cost keep someone from really taking them to task. And then buying up all the small developers who even come close.

How well it works for others will of course vary, but the point was that this idea of not knowing anything about the product before spending money is ridiculous. There is a ton of information and unedited gameplay out there.

And besides, this is not such an alien concept. Have you ever gone to the movies? A show? Have you ever fucking gone out to eat? We put money down before getting the whole product all the time.

Oh it's quite possible to buy a game and end up with something that won't play on your machine, especially with DRM. Or have a thoroughly unplayable experience even though you did all your research and have to wait and hope they patch it to fix it. Remember you rarely can return media anymore.

And with a movie, you are free to complain and get your money back when someone talks throughout the movie or something goes wrong. A show if the lights go out or fire alarm goes off, you are reimbursed or given another ticket. If you go out to eat and the food is no good, you can get your money back or ask them to redo the meal to something edible. There's a level of service to be met in each of those things and yet with media entertainment you are not allowed to express dissatisfaction over dismal gameplay or horrible framerates or whatever else. And with movie theaters, shows, and restaurants, if they suck, they go out of business. Yet another counter-intuitive thing when it comes to mass publishers. When their business suffers they blame piracy. Restaurants aren't out there blaming piracy or telling customers their taste buds are faulty or expectations for 50 dollars are too high...or can't understand why you don't like getting frisked for items on your way in and out. Or movies patting you down for outside food.....how long you think a theater like that would stay in business?

Yes they want your money all the time, that's their job. No they can't "make you" buy anything, you sound insane.

If you want music and they have killed your ability to get affordable music from other sources, you either get their music or go without. If you want ebooks at 5 dollars or less and Apple comes in and makes a deal with all the big publishers and tries to force Amazon into raising all book prices by 3-5 dollars above where they were before, you can switch to the library. And when they go to the library and make it so they have to pay more or lend less, making it less able to service people on it's budget, where do you go then?

What about when they start monitoring your activity at the ISP and see you are downloading songs from an unrecognized song site (or not itunes/amazon) and deem that infringing behavior even though you are paying for it, just not from some place they recognize as legitimate due to slow adaptation or poor filtering. And you end up with a warning on your account and no review process to fix it, what if it gets your internet service cancelled? Are you going to keep risking buying your music anywhere else but providers A, B, and C because they are recognized and authorized sellers? What if they don't carry the music you want?

They can force you to buy their goods or no goods by simply limiting your options via the various methods they already have at their disposal. And when you don't buy their stuff? You are pirating and they just haven't found a way to prove it yet...they need more filtering and more power over you.

Consumers hold the power as long as we are in a capitalist system with free will and the ability to communicate. No matter how much you want to yell and scream about these evil companies forcing things on you they can't do shit without people buying their products.

You can point of how greedy these companies are all day long but it will never make me pause. Their job is to be greedy, that is what they exist to be. They only get away with flagrant greed if consumers accept it.

Consumers have ALL the power.

So ISP monitoring was something consumers requested and used their power to implement. DMCA is something consumers asked for. SOPA/PIPA and now CISPA are things consumers wanted. DRM is something consumers asked for. 15 minutes of FBI warnings and such are something consumers want on their movies. 15 minutes of commercials before movies at the theater are what consumers want. Commercials in television shows are what consumers want. Crippled DVD players, crippled televisions via HDMI, and other crippled hardware are things consumers demanded to pay for when they buy things. Not buying these things have turned up alternatives, because none of this stuff is required to be put into devices made for certain purposes or laws passed due to special interests that are counter to consumer desires.

If consumers have ALL the power, SOPA wouldn't have made it past the wet dream stage because businesses would fear overstepping their bounds and angering the consumer. It ended up failing, but that's only after corporate interests on the other side came out against it. When there's no corporate interest otherwise, you as a consumer have the option to either take it or leave it. Good luck getting hardware for your computer or entertainment system that doesn't have any of this stuff built into it. Good luck finding an ISP that won't be monitoring you in a 1 or 2 ISP choice area. Good luck with the always on DRM without an internet connection. Enjoy the commercials.

Saying consumers have all the power is like saying being a voter gives you all the political power. When it comes to getting laws passed, the consumer has no say in what politicians decide, voters might. But we see what's going on in Michigan now and how disenfranchised the majority of voters are ending up there...basically having their local government flat out trodden over by the state and it's "emergency" bills. This is an excellent example of how little control each and every person has even with constitutionally backed rights.

And we're talking about how consumers get screwed on how they get their entertainment, I mean it's the lowest of the low in terms of productivity or benefit to society and yet it garners laws and special interests......of course they will let monied interests bend you over for a buck. They get a handful options and are left to decide if they can muster something out of it worthwhile or abstain entirely. That's a sham of a choice in an area that should be able to offer a plethora of options in all media facets due to technology. Technology entertainment businesses refuse to embrace and have laws written up keeping the old models viable. It's wonderfully innovative, like consumers have always demanded in each decade...less options....less content for more money......inability to watch it how they want.......no ability to share.......


I see absolutely no forthright and honest effort on media conglomerates part to address even a modicum of consumer desire. Hell they are still trying to rebel against Steam, look at EA with Origin. Apple book deal with all major publishing companies to spite Amazon, whom independent authors are doing well on and throwing back in the faces of the publishing houses who are trying to curb their success. Independent authors, musicians and developers are about as close to honest as you can hope to get in them wanting to keep you happy and meet your demands, but they aren't able to do that as well as a conglomerate due to their profit margins. And these independent guys aren't even covered under any of these measures being put in place, because NO ONE cars about the individual's rights. See any political campaign that steals artwork from photographers and uses it on their sites in infringing ways, good luck getting the price of a song out of the politician like the RIAA tries to get out of regular people.

Supporting them by buying into their piracy stance while they do all this other dishonest and counter-consumer crap is a fool's game.

This comment was edited on Apr 13, 2012, 06:34.
 
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225. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 13, 2012, 03:00 StingingVelvet
 
Veterator wrote on Apr 12, 2012, 17:27:
If they wanted to force me to a console where everything costs money and there is no use for it without paying that money, I would stop gaming today. I've already significantly cut back on what I spend waiting years for releases to drop down to the 5 and 10 dollar range.

Well you're not their target market anymore anyway then. Which is fine as long as you don't expect them to cater to you.

And they are "losing money" on me, simply because I don't buy it day 1. They assume that because I wait to buy it, I must have pirated it earlier and bought it when it was super cheap. I don't like being called a pirate enough so that I will actually not buy games from companies who do that stuff specifically because of it. Nothing will ever make them happy besides you being forced to buy stuff at maximum price and paying more than that on DLC while you pay for a monthly fee.

Of course they want you to spend as much as possible on them, they're a business, their goal is to make money. How is this a surprise? Shit, how is this even wrong? Capitalism 101. It doesn't mean you have to spend a dime, but nor do you have to pirate anything.

So you've found a way that satisfies your purchasing decisions and expect it to be good enough for other people.

How well it works for others will of course vary, but the point was that this idea of not knowing anything about the product before spending money is ridiculous. There is a ton of information and unedited gameplay out there.

And besides, this is not such an alien concept. Have you ever gone to the movies? A show? Have you ever fucking gone out to eat? We put money down before getting the whole product all the time.

This shows a pattern of behavior that WHATEVER you do will not make them happy, they will find some way to make you buy things outright whether by law or by killing services making you withhold from doing so. Piracy is just a channel they can't easily kill, it does not change their ways......once they have those laws they will use them to prevent other services from coming forth that doesn't make them X per Y and give them Z control.

Yes they want your money all the time, that's their job. No they can't "make you" buy anything, you sound insane.

Consumers hold power as long as they can't be cut off from the internet due to legislation allowing ISPs to monitor them and cut them off after "infringement" that has no legal test to meet. This is already in effect with major ISPs whom also happen to be tied to content creation companies. They get to decide if you are infringing now, perhaps it will come in the form of Torrent, Dropbox, email, HTTP, FTP, Netflix, other streaming service, or you will just be questioned because you are encrypting your connections because this shit is BS.

Entitlement goes both ways, and corporations are getting laws entitling them to a lot. Eroding consumer power to demand new services be offered. Just because they limit your choices and keep you locked into a pricing scheme does not mean it's what the consumers demand. It could just as easily be the only choice offered. IE Digital Books should not be more expensive than their paper bound counterpart. Signing agreements with Apple making it even MORE expensive = lawsuit that will do nothing in the end because the companies have other ways of forcing it down our throats due to them being hugely wealthy and having influence and power due to that. They speak with a few voices with lots of money behind them, and the consumer speaks with a million voices with a few dollars behind each. It's much easier to appease the few really wealthy people...as we've seen them do in politics for many years now. Piracy just happens to be the "reason" this decade. In the 80s it was VHS and copying, they even had to update fair use to stop the abuse. And it didn't kill the industry as they claimed. In the 90s it was CDs, it also did not kill the industry....but they made extra money on it in some countries by putting "piracy taxes" on the CDs whether they were used for that or not.

They have shown themselves to be unhappy no matter what happens... this is just another farce of a debate that they reinforce purposefully by skewing numbers, eliminating services, and even buying the companies that PROMOTED digital piracy in the early stages of the internet such as Cnet who used to review torrent and P2P programs, even offering links to the program downloads AND songs on their websites. Where's the outrage over corporate sponsorship of piracy? Shouldn't they look to them for damages for promoting this behavior?

Consumers hold the power as long as we are in a capitalist system with free will and the ability to communicate. No matter how much you want to yell and scream about these evil companies forcing things on you they can't do shit without people buying their products.

You can point of how greedy these companies are all day long but it will never make me pause. Their job is to be greedy, that is what they exist to be. They only get away with flagrant greed if consumers accept it.

Consumers have ALL the power.
 
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224. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 12, 2012, 17:27 Veterator
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 12, 2012, 08:05:
They wouldn't go buy a thousand blu-rays but would they spend more money on entertainment? Of course they would. This idea that most pirates would just completely stop gaming or watching movies and shit cold turkey if piracy was stopped is such silliness. People who have been gaming consistently for decades are just gonna completely stop rather than buy some games? I doubt it.

Again, the extent to which they would spend is debatable and varies on income and such, but no one can ever convince me companies aren't losing money.

So one download does not equal one sale. This is why it's hard to come to an agreement with them if they claim all downloads equal a lost sale and that people who make 50 grand a year would spend it all on entertainment....or should spend it all on entertainment.

If they wanted to force me to a console where everything costs money and there is no use for it without paying that money, I would stop gaming today. I've already significantly cut back on what I spend waiting years for releases to drop down to the 5 and 10 dollar range.

And they are "losing money" on me, simply because I don't buy it day 1. They assume that because I wait to buy it, I must have pirated it earlier and bought it when it was super cheap. I don't like being called a pirate enough so that I will actually not buy games from companies who do that stuff specifically because of it. Nothing will ever make them happy besides you being forced to buy stuff at maximum price and paying more than that on DLC while you pay for a monthly fee.

Comparing media to physical goods never really ends well. In any case with games at least walkthrough videos, reviews and forum posts offer plenty of pre-purchase info. I know a ton of people here find that idea ridiculous, but honestly for me it is 100% true. I watch quicklooks on giantbomb or youtube and read reviews and then make my purchasing decision... I am rarely if ever wrong.

So you've found a way that satisfies your purchasing decisions and expect it to be good enough for other people. This is why other services come to fruition because what some people want from services are not being met. RIAA/MPAA/video game/book industries have spent much of their time trying to limit these alternatives from ever seeing the light of day. Netflix is being attacked. Amazon is being attacked. Itunes was attacked and probably still is. Blockbuster rentals were attacked. Libraries are being attacked.

This shows a pattern of behavior that WHATEVER you do will not make them happy, they will find some way to make you buy things outright whether by law or by killing services making you withhold from doing so. Piracy is just a channel they can't easily kill, it does not change their ways......once they have those laws they will use them to prevent other services from coming forth that doesn't make them X per Y and give them Z control.


They want you to do that shit but in no way am I saying you should. Consumers hold all the power, they control pricing and product through what they buy. If most people accept 6 hour campaigns, DLC and $60 prices that just means you are in the minority for not doing so, it doesn't mean the companies are "wrong."

And what that has to do with piracy is beyond me... you don't need to pirate to send a message, just not buy the damn thing. Entitlement all up in that shit.

Consumers hold power as long as they can't be cut off from the internet due to legislation allowing ISPs to monitor them and cut them off after "infringement" that has no legal test to meet. This is already in effect with major ISPs whom also happen to be tied to content creation companies. They get to decide if you are infringing now, perhaps it will come in the form of Torrent, Dropbox, email, HTTP, FTP, Netflix, other streaming service, or you will just be questioned because you are encrypting your connections because this shit is BS.

Entitlement goes both ways, and corporations are getting laws entitling them to a lot. Eroding consumer power to demand new services be offered. Just because they limit your choices and keep you locked into a pricing scheme does not mean it's what the consumers demand. It could just as easily be the only choice offered. IE Digital Books should not be more expensive than their paper bound counterpart. Signing agreements with Apple making it even MORE expensive = lawsuit that will do nothing in the end because the companies have other ways of forcing it down our throats due to them being hugely wealthy and having influence and power due to that. They speak with a few voices with lots of money behind them, and the consumer speaks with a million voices with a few dollars behind each. It's much easier to appease the few really wealthy people...as we've seen them do in politics for many years now. Piracy just happens to be the "reason" this decade. In the 80s it was VHS and copying, they even had to update fair use to stop the abuse. And it didn't kill the industry as they claimed. In the 90s it was CDs, it also did not kill the industry....but they made extra money on it in some countries by putting "piracy taxes" on the CDs whether they were used for that or not.

They have shown themselves to be unhappy no matter what happens... this is just another farce of a debate that they reinforce purposefully by skewing numbers, eliminating services, and even buying the companies that PROMOTED digital piracy in the early stages of the internet such as Cnet who used to review torrent and P2P programs, even offering links to the program downloads AND songs on their websites. Where's the outrage over corporate sponsorship of piracy? Shouldn't they look to them for damages for promoting this behavior?

 
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223. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 12, 2012, 14:56 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Apr 12, 2012, 12:09:
tl;dr - of course "regulation" will progress as technology does, that doesn't mean corporations will get to do whatever they want nor are justified in doing so because "abuse" exists. Degrees are what is important here. The degree of abuse and the degree of regulation.

I completely agree with all that. I wasn't really advocating regulation, just saying I see it as a natural response to abuses, perceived or real. That's history repeating itself.

How much piracy really effects and how it should be responded to is all degrees, I agree.
 
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222. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 12, 2012, 14:14 ASeven
 
About ACTA: It's pretty much now dead in the EU. And that was gained due to the huge pressure made by the people in many countries.  
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221. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 12, 2012, 12:19 Beamer
 
ASeven wrote on Apr 11, 2012, 14:41:
Want to gain respect from everyone here?

Not really. For all your claims of sheep I think this board tends to move as a herd. Not individually, but overall tone.




As for the whole censoring the internet argument, fuck companies. There are ways to do this without involving the government. Someone posts a video of an entire movie on a website? I'm cool with having the owner of that site fined, so long as the owner and the person posting are the same. If they aren't the same? The owner has to take it down and maybe delete the user account, at least if there are repeat issues, but there's no other action to take. If the website is a commercial organization dedicated to piracy? Yeah, I can see prosecuting a guy that made millions while bragging about being a pirate.

But these aren't common things and you can't write blanket legislation that covers them without covering a billion other things. Treat these are one-off things, as they did with MegaUpload.

Go after the people pirating to profit. Leave the kid watching X-Men First Class during study hall out of it. Hell, 20 years ago he was just watching a copy he made using 2 VCRs and a rented VHS anyway.
 
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220. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 12, 2012, 12:09 Verno
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Apr 12, 2012, 11:32:
It's not a straw man when the entire point I was making is that these people losing money means more regulation. Why do you think SOPA wasn't the end of it?

It was a silly straw man linked to vague personal anecdotes. Waving your hands and shouting "Companies are losing money to piracy!" doesn't make it true and even if it were, the degree of is far more important than the fact itself.

SOPA isn't the end of it because corporations are always trying to influence policy, it's not restricted to media industries either. That's par for the course. There is no correlation of legislation introduction to piracy statistics, domestically or internationally.

Why are they slowly but surely moving all consumers to closed systems?

In general, to have more control over the revenue stream, it has nothing to do with piracy. This is a goal that pretty much every corporation has in almost every industry. Cut out middle suppliers whenever possible, go direct to the consumer, tighter pricing control, choke alternatives out and so on. "Its just business" as you would likely say. It often has nothing to do with piracy, it could cease to exist tomorrow and they would find a new justification for the same behavior.

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of these industries aren't managed by the most technically minded folk to put it lightly. They idea of how to respond to piracy is usually going to be incredibly drastic and likely have little input behind it. These are not people I want having any level of access to underlying systems of the internet without a shitload of oversight and public opinion.

There is a consistent idea on this forum that these companies have to just suck it up and deal with it, you even post that same kind of thing below.

No, I did not say that. I said it's always a factor. I also said that companies are better served by fighting piracy through more legitimate means as it is more upsides to their bottom line than draconian laws that aren't even enforceable.

For someone who supposedly has centrist views you have failed to consider any consumer perspective here. We should have reasonable copyright laws passed through intelligent debate with as many viewpoints as possible considered. That would be fair to corporations and consumers. We shouldn't allow corporations to start hacking away at pieces of the internet just because they feel threatened. That's not reasonable at all and could serve to harm legitimate industries a lot more than it ever will hurt "dudes i know downloading movies". There is too much at stake here for knee jerk reactions and one sided views.

It is incredibly easy to steal music but the legitimate digital alternatives continue to grow and be profitable. Does the fact that some people pirate music make it ok for the RIAA to do whatever it wants through any avenue it pleases, including illegal activities like political bribery? Of course not. We don't need to break the internet because "abuse" exists. Your argument that "its all inevitable because people are abusing it" is just silly dismissive fluff because you don't like the counter-opinions you're hearing. As technology evolves we'll continue to need changes to existing law, that doesn't mean corporations will get a big win button to do whatever they want. If that was the case they would ended ventures like Youtube long ago and in fact already did their best to try.

tl;dr - of course "regulation" will progress as technology does, that doesn't mean corporations will get to do whatever they want nor are justified in doing so because "abuse" exists. Degrees are what is important here. The degree of abuse and the degree of regulation.

This comment was edited on Apr 12, 2012, 12:47.
 
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