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Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned

In spite of EA saying the original "under-performed," a sequel to Bulletstorm was in the works at People Can Fly before being cancelled by parent company Epic Games reports GameSpot, who hear from Epic president Mike Capps on the topic. Mike indicates they have put the Polish developer on a different project they will "be announcing pretty soon," though there is no clue if this is the recently revealed PC game Epic is planning. "We thought a lot about a sequel, and had done some initial development on it, but we found a project that we thought was a better fit for People Can Fly," he said. "We haven't announced that yet, but we will be announcing it pretty soon." He goes on to praise Bulletstorm and says he'd love to go back to the property, "but right now we don't have anything to talk about." Just to stir the pot a little, the story concludes with Capps' comment that sales of the PC version may have been harmed by piracy: "We made a PC version of Bulletstorm, and it didn't do very well on PC and I think a lot of that was due to piracy. It wasn't the best PC port ever, sure, but also piracy was a pretty big problem."

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79. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 14:18 deadearth
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:07:
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 11:12:
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 10:04:
If people didn't want to play it then it wouldn't have been pirated like crazy.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Untrue. Why would anyone possibly download a game if they do not want to play it? Some people mention things like "collecting" here, but does anyone think a meaningful number of people "collect" things they do not wish to play?
People downloaded the game because they wished to play it. Maybe only for curiosity, to see how bad it was, but clearly they desired to play it.


Actually you would be surprised. I used to pirate pc games a lot when i was in college, i don't anymore. When i was doing it i spent more time downloading, archiving, and organizaing than i did playing. Sure I didn't download every single game regardless of my interest, but i probably got around to only playing 5% of what i downloaded. I really was 'collecting' games the same way a stamp collector would. I still 'collect' games, only on steam. Whereas previously i would pirate a game with the intent of playing it sometime in the future (but usually not), now i just impulse purchase on steam sales with the intent of playing it sometime in the future.

With the steam sales I'm not pirating, people are getting some money from me, and i spend less time archiving/organizing and more time playing.


 
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78. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 14:02 fujiJuice
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:12:
As for the 10%, it's my estimate, and I'd guess it's a fairly solid estimate. No one has done solid research on this because it's IMPOSSIBLE to do solid research on this. What, do you think Epic has the capability to find a decent sample size that pirated Bulletstorm and get them to accurately state whether they would have bought it?

This is exactly the problem. There is no way to prove such things yet the developers and publishers spew out these claims as if they are based on some kind of hard evidence. As many have said, it is all a smoke screen for those at fault for a sub-bar product to protect themselves from investors/executives who don't know any better and think these claims have some sort of bearing on reality. Which is why most PC users get upset by these remarks, because they are insulting, switching blame to your customers or potential customers is never good business practice.

Let us pretend for a minute your 'estimate' is something close to an actual representation, 100,000 more sales on these kind of big budget games makes little difference in the long run. So even if their claims about piracy were true, they didn't make or break the game.

Now in the near future when it is established that Star Wars The Old Republic has been a massive failure, you will notice piracy will not be a potential scapegoat. As with all failed MMO's piracy will not be mentioned and some of the real reasons for the failures might actually see the light of day.

I am a member of the camp that piracy does not equal a lost sale, and on the whole probably contributes more sales then removes. Most people rely on word of mouth from people they trust as a motivator to purchase products like movies, video games, songs. Few people if any will say they played/watched/listened illegally, it is irrelevant.
 
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77. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 14:00 Verno
 
Fighting consumer piracy has proven time and time again to be a waste of time as well. Commercial piracy is a different story and I understand the industries efforts there. Consumer piracy always evolves around technological safeguards. It's just pointless even trying to fight it, it will always exist in some shape or form. No one said make it easier but at some point you have to address your customers and not worry about the people who aren't giving you money.

I gotta wonder if that demo hurt its sales.

Yep, as some mentioned earlier the demo wasn't very well received. I think however that for a new franchise you pretty much have to do a demo.
 
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76. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:59 ASeven
 
Also, concerning Bulletstorm, remember when CliffyB said there would be no demo for PCs only to release it later, but only after insulting PC gamers a bit more by calling them whiners for a lack of a demo? I'm betting that also helped in gaining Bulletstorm more fans, not.  
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75. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:58 ASeven
 
deqer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:53:
wonkawonka wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:45:
Piracy is here to stay. Forever.
Not really.

All this false blame on piracy by big corporations is bound to bring enough heat to whole situation that it will grab the attention the people higher up, and thus speeds up the inevitable arrival of the Mark Of The Beast system, where everyone will be owned/tracked.

That sort of thing is happening right now.
 
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74. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:57 scratz
 
(Sorry to interrupt the flame war)

The demo sucked. I was really looking forward to the game, but it fell totally flat for me.

And then, months later I saw the game on Steam sale for, what, like $7 or so, and being a big fan of Epic I decided to get it anyway.

Surprise, the game itself (after admittedly very low expectations) was actually quite fun. Not great, but fun. I've played it through twice.

I gotta wonder if that demo hurt its sales.

All that said, ya, I admit I would have been disappointed if I had paid $60. Someone needs to figure out a way to develop games like this at a quarter the cost and pass that on to the consumer.
 
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73. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:56 ASeven
 
Verno wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:51:
If you ask me the whole "it's not really a problem" apologist shit is the real naive side. Piracy is a massive issue.

An excuse to regulate the internet? Probably, but like the wild west of old it has pretty much been proven that people can't control themselves with a free and unregulated internet.

A fairly lame comparison, people aren't murdering each other to steal copies of the latest Kelly Clarkson album on rapidshare. Your anecdotal account doesn't really justify internet wide censorship by corporations, many of which continue to post record profits year after year.

Has the internet made things easier to share? Sure but that's always been a problem. People love to create and we love to share. Most entertainment industries real problem with piracy was their continued obsession in fighting technological change in the face of consumer demand.

Spot on Verno. Piracy is being used again to draft CISPA, SOPA and PIPA's bigger brother, no pun intended. Piracy is being used as a lot of excuses and it's disingenuous to claim piracy is a huge problem when people like Gabe Newell, Notch and many indie developers accept piracy not as a problem but as potential customers. If everyone who is afflicted by piracy saw piracy as potential customers everyone would be better for it.

And as the latest Hadopi numbers show, strict draconian laws to prevent piracy do lower piracy but also lowers revenue of the entertainment industry a whole lot more than piracy and it also increases VPN communications, good luck on any government trying to spy on that.
 
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72. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:53 deqer
 
wonkawonka wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:45:
Piracy is here to stay. Forever.
Not really.

All this false blame on piracy by big corporations is bound to bring enough heat to whole situation that it will grab the attention the people higher up, and thus speeds up the inevitable arrival of the Mark Of The Beast system, where everyone will be owned/tracked.
 
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71. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:51 Verno
 
If you ask me the whole "it's not really a problem" apologist shit is the real naive side. Piracy is a massive issue.

An excuse to regulate the internet? Probably, but like the wild west of old it has pretty much been proven that people can't control themselves with a free and unregulated internet.

A fairly lame comparison, people aren't murdering each other to steal copies of the latest Kelly Clarkson album on rapidshare. Your anecdotal account doesn't really justify internet wide censorship by corporations, many of which continue to post record profits year after year.

Has the internet made things easier to share? Sure but that's always been a problem. Sometimes that sharing is perfectly innocent, sometimes its "piracy". People love to create and we love to share. Most entertainment industries real problem with piracy was their continued obsession in fighting technological change in the face of consumer demand.

Like consumers, the markets are adapting. I can get a lot of my favorite things in one off purchases instead of being forced to have a cable subscription. The PC gaming market largely went digital and has evolved several new pricing models. The same with the music industry. There is no need to censor the internet as a knee jerk response to piracy as that's attacking the symptoms, not the underlying condition. Convenience and pricing are far more important factors to consider when addressing it and have the benefit of potentially increasing profits at the same time.
 
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70. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:51 ASeven
 
BTW because of piracy SOPA part 2 is now going ahead on US congress, CISPA, and it's far worse than SOPA and PIPA could ever be.  
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69. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:45 wonkawonka
 
Another piracy flamewar...
To me piracy means lost sales. Yes. But piracy can be mitigated immensely with a good product, good support, etc.. etc..
In fact, acknowledging and planning for piracy will make the publisher & developer allocate assets in a much better way to end up with a much better product. When Bulletstorm insiders are pissed off at the quality of the game shipped and DON'T RECOMMEND their own game, what does that mean to you?
Piracy is here to stay. Forever. Live with it. Don't over-allocate resources fighting it. And that also means do not over-market your product hoping to sucker people into buying it. That tactic always fails. Instead, reallocate the marketing resources into improving the product.
 
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68. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:43 Tanto Edge
 
It's piracys fault that this game didn't do well. The piracy that stole the creativity from the industry!
*badump bump*
 
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67. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:43 StingingVelvet
 
Chromius wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 11:13:
To the people buying the whole "Piracy is huge thing" you are brainwashed, piracy is made out to be much larger than it actually is, these people go to their board meetings and tell them this is why they failed, when in reality it is not the issue, Piracy is the "Get out of jail free card". Private research on this from different non affiliated groups have time and time again said it really is only about 10% or less of what they claim and the US is actually very low, yet the MPAA claim its higher and cry losses and are actually able to get tax write offs over it and act like fascist nazis in other countries. Every download is not a sale, and marketing plays a large factor never mind the current economy and it has been found that most people "able" to purchase a product will even after downloading. I used to purchase 4 boxed games per month, I may have returned 1 and received my money back. Guess what the things they claim are pc games are mostly console ports with very little effort in utilizing the pc's capabilities. The gaming and movie industry are running out of ideas and pushing out loads of garbage, then they play the "piracy card" , lol

Quite believing the hype because "piracy" is actually going to be used to get more control over the internet and cut off Americans from REAL INFORMATION not conspiracy theory stuff. Gee I saw a 2 hour History channel episode of engineers talking about why the 9/11 could not have happened the way it did, it never aired in the US, but if you want to believe everything you read without using logic or researching it go for it. The first of many things they will do when they get control over the internet will be shut off site like the one with 1500+ engineers asking for a REAL investigation into 9/11, so yeah feed the piracy hype by all means.

Pretty much everyone I know my own age or younger pirates games, music and movies relentlessly. Most of them never buy anything, some of them buy their favorites. I started a volunteer overseas program in January and every other volunteer I have spent any time with brought terabytes of pirates stuff with them.

If you ask me the whole "it's not really a problem" apologist shit is the real naive side. Piracy is a massive issue.

An excuse to regulate the internet? Probably, but like the wild west of old it has pretty much been proven that people can't control themselves with a free and unregulated internet.

 
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66. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:39 ASeven
 
RollinThundr wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:37:
Krovven wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:29:
ASeven wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:52:
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 11:03:
So you guys wouldn't wager that 10% of pirates would purchase if piracy wasn't an option?

You think 10% is too high?



As for where millions come from, go to a major torrent site and look and see how many downloaded the game.

Mr. Beamer, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thanks for reminding me to put you on ignore ASeven. I've read several of your posts in the last few days, most of which are simply attacking Beamer because you disagree with him. Fact is you wouldn't know a rational and logical thought if it bit you on the ass.

While I dont agree with everything Beamer says, you've been clear you don't want to have a normal conversation that doesn't involve disregarding everything he says and just straight up attacking him.

Gotta say, with the dozen or so fools on ignore, threads are so much better to read.



Except Aseven is spot on, 99.9% of the shit that comes from Beamer's piehole is exactly that, shit.

But then again you're the guy who thinks the Diablo series was always intended to be played in multiplayer only. Guess the lack of logic crowd on BN sticks together.

Oh golly, Beamer and Krovven, the biggest industry apologists on this site. I actually feel honored someone like Krovven put me on the killfile, it's sort of a badge when the corporate apologist with no brains to think for themselves feel threatened by someone who actually throws facts instead of fanboyism hype like Krovven does.

EDIT:Fact is you wouldn't know a rational and logical thought if it bit you on the ass. - This quote coming from the guy who says that people not having internet is not his problem. Oh god the hilarity of this is tremendous, Krovven is one of the biggest idiots on this site so I'm glad he won't reply to me anymore, his responses are usually worthless anyway.

This comment was edited on Apr 10, 2012, 16:20.
 
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65. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:37 SpectralMeat
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:12:
There was a demo.
I believe the demo for the PC was released after the game came out. The console demo was out before.
 
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64. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:37 RollinThundr
 
Krovven wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 13:29:
ASeven wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:52:
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 11:03:
So you guys wouldn't wager that 10% of pirates would purchase if piracy wasn't an option?

You think 10% is too high?



As for where millions come from, go to a major torrent site and look and see how many downloaded the game.

Mr. Beamer, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thanks for reminding me to put you on ignore ASeven. I've read several of your posts in the last few days, most of which are simply attacking Beamer because you disagree with him. Fact is you wouldn't know a rational and logical thought if it bit you on the ass.

While I dont agree with everything Beamer says, you've been clear you don't want to have a normal conversation that doesn't involve disregarding everything he says and just straight up attacking him.

Gotta say, with the dozen or so fools on ignore, threads are so much better to read.



Except Aseven is spot on, 99.9% of the shit that comes from Beamer's piehole is exactly that, shit.

But then again you're the guy who thinks the Diablo series was always intended to be played in multiplayer only. Guess the lack of logic crowd on BN sticks together.
 
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63. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:33 Verno
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:58:
'So we admit it was a crappy game and a shitty port, but piracy was really the problem.'

Whenever you hear someone blame piracy from now on that's code for a shitty game.

That's pretty much what its always been code for. Blame the unknown for problems instead of taking responsibility, if nothing else it's quite a human response.

I don't doubt that piracy figures might be higher for an unknown property but that would be reflected on the console side of things as well and no one has any real idea what the figures are so its just people literally inventing things.
 
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62. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:29 Krovven
 
ASeven wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:52:
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 11:03:
So you guys wouldn't wager that 10% of pirates would purchase if piracy wasn't an option?

You think 10% is too high?



As for where millions come from, go to a major torrent site and look and see how many downloaded the game.

Mr. Beamer, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thanks for reminding me to put you on ignore ASeven. I've read several of your posts in the last few days, most of which are simply attacking Beamer because you disagree with him. Fact is you wouldn't know a rational and logical thought if it bit you on the ass.

While I dont agree with everything Beamer says, you've been clear you don't want to have a normal conversation that doesn't involve disregarding everything he says and just straight up attacking him.

Gotta say, with the dozen or so fools on ignore, threads are so much better to read.


 
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61. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:12 Beamer
 
Fletch wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:29:
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 10:04:
If people didn't want to play it then it wouldn't have been pirated like crazy.

You can say people didn't want to pay for it, but undoubtedly if piracy was not an option then sales would have been better. While we can debate all day what portion of pirates would otherwise buy a game (low), I don't think anyone would argue none would.
If a game is pirated a million times I think it's safe to say that's 100,000 lost sales. Bulletstorm was pirated more than a million times.

Where do you get THOSE numbers? I don't think it's even close to 10%. And I think the vast majority of those who did pirate it didn't play it for long, and were thankful they didn't waste $40. Companies who rely on day one sales for games they know are crap are just as dishonest as pirates. They want as many people buying their non-refundable game before word gets out how fucking bad it is. It was a shitty console port, period.

Make good PC games, sell lots of PC games. Make shitty, consolized PC games, sell few PC games.

There was a demo.

If you don't want developers looking at torrent sites and then moaning about piracy stop pirating games! And stop making excuses for those that do. "Oh, it's not the consumer's fault, they wanted to try the full version before buying (how many industries allow this?) and they wanted to collect it, and they didn't want to pay as much as it cost just then, and they planned to buy it down the road..."

People like calling me a "corporate shill," but some of you are piracy shills. At best you're "well I don't pirate so it must not be a problem."

As for the 10%, it's my estimate, and I'd guess it's a fairly solid estimate. No one has done solid research on this because it's IMPOSSIBLE to do solid research on this. What, do you think Epic has the capability to find a decent sample size that pirated Bulletstorm and get them to accurately state whether they would have bought it?
 
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60. Re: Bulletstorm Sequel Cancelled; PC Piracy Mentioned Apr 10, 2012, 13:07 Beamer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 11:12:
Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 10:04:
If people didn't want to play it then it wouldn't have been pirated like crazy.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Untrue. Why would anyone possibly download a game if they do not want to play it? Some people mention things like "collecting" here, but does anyone think a meaningful number of people "collect" things they do not wish to play?
People downloaded the game because they wished to play it. Maybe only for curiosity, to see how bad it was, but clearly they desired to play it.

qsto wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:30:
So when a multiplat title bombs; and bomb this game did on consoles too, it's PC's fault. But when a multiplat title does great... on PC as well, like Skyrim and BF3, it's just collateral sales?

He never once blamed the PC. He did not say "we aren't doing a sequel because the PC version was pirated," he's saying sales as a whole were under EAs expectations and he feels PC sales in particular were hurt by piracy.
I do not understand how anyone can deny this. And this is why idiots like Prez block me. You guys sit around and say "piracy is not a factor." That's idiotic. You cannot deny that piracy equals lost sales. You can debate how great the sales are, but sorry, your head is up your ass if you do not think piracy equates to lost sales, or that piracy equates to greater sales as some argue (even if you want to make this point those buying after pirating are likely buying at extremely discounted prices. 1 person buying at $50 is worth 10 buying at $5.)

Beelzebud wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:55:
I like how the guy who rants and raves about evil PC piracy is also the one who seems to visit a "major torrent site".

I pirate nothing. Not movies. Not music. Not games. Definitely not books. That does not mean I'm incapable of googling "bulletstorm torrent" and clicking a few links.
Hey, I don't do drugs, either, but I've read the Wikipedia article on crack cocaine. I do not go skydiving but I watched a video of a cat being thrown out of a plane with a parachute. Wacky!

Jerykk wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 12:29:
I like Bulletstorm, but really? You're going to blame piracy for lousy sales? One look at Skyrim proves that piracy doesn't have any adverse effect on a game's success. The games with the most hype and marketing are pirated the most and sell the most. Bulletstorm didn't sell well on any platform, so it's no surprise that PC wasn't the exception.

And this is the point idiots banning me should make. Listen guys, piracy is lost sales. Stop fucking denying it. Stop telling developers they're wrong for thinking this. But tell them that they need to account for it. Sales projections should include piracy, much like supermarkets account for spoilage. Games will be pirated. It's unlikely that any game is pirated more than any other, at least relative to sales (by that I mean Skyrim was likely pirated exponentially more but it sold exponentially more.)

But piracy = lost sales. Some of you are so focused against this...
 
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