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26. Re: etc, etc. Apr 17, 2012, 22:44 MattyC
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 11, 2012, 09:17:
Because that is not what happened, if people are stupid retards and give their money to childs play thinking that it'll effect the ending of ME3... well that is their problem. Fact is that any donated money is good money, and PA plays corporate shill here.

You can believe their statement of course, and then you can look at their "review" of ME and their statements regarding the ending. And maybe take a look how much money EA has given them ;p

Not that I know how much, but it'd be Interesting to know. Given that PA runs PAX

... If you think PA was payed for their coverage of ME3 you must either believe that ME3 devs will pay for ANY coverage (good or bad) or that they somehow think neutral coverage is positive and worth bribing for. I mean really go look at what PA said about ME3. Other than the demo coverage I would call it neutral at best. Basically just seems like the internet getting into edrama for the sake of edrama to me.
 
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25. Re: etc, etc. Apr 11, 2012, 19:26 Sepharo
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 11, 2012, 09:17:
Because that is not what happened, if people are stupid retards and give their money to childs play thinking that it'll effect the ending of ME3... well that is their problem. Fact is that any donated money is good money, and PA plays corporate shill here.

You can believe their statement of course, and then you can look at their "review" of ME and their statements regarding the ending. And maybe take a look how much money EA has given them ;p

Not that I know how much, but it'd be Interesting to know. Given that PA runs PAX

It's not PA's statement, it's RME's. The guy purposely went out of his way multiple times to try to dispel conspiracy bullshit like yours, but there ya go anyway.

Also it's hilarious that you think PA is a corporate shill. They have no need for bribe money. No need for EA or any other exhibitor at their show. Also the notion that EA would pull their booth from PAX over this (if it wasn't stopped) is funny. It's EA that wants to be at PAX not the other way around.

And "PA runs PAX" really? Penny-Arcade runs the Penny-Arcade Expo? You're on to something here.
 
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24. Re: etc, etc. Apr 11, 2012, 09:17 eRe4s3r
 
Because that is not what happened, if people are stupid retards and give their money to childs play thinking that it'll effect the ending of ME3... well that is their problem. Fact is that any donated money is good money, and PA plays corporate shill here.

You can believe their statement of course, and then you can look at their "review" of ME and their statements regarding the ending. And maybe take a look how much money EA has given them ;p

Not that I know how much, but it'd be Interesting to know. Given that PA runs PAX
 
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23. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 20:12 Sepharo
 
MattyC wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 19:36:
Elf Shot The Food wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:30:
Crustacean Soup wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 20:16:
Ever since Penny Arcade got all douche bag over the ME3 ending child's play donation thing I have removed that site from my feeds....

As someone who doesn't follow Penny Arcade drama, what was this about?

Apparently people were donating money to Child's Play thinking the money was going to go towards buying a new ending for Mass Effect 3:

http://tinyurl.com/86znmsy

... I don't get it. Why are people mad at PA over that?

Lack of critical thought or just PA haters.
 
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22. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 19:36 MattyC
 
Elf Shot The Food wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:30:
Crustacean Soup wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 20:16:
Ever since Penny Arcade got all douche bag over the ME3 ending child's play donation thing I have removed that site from my feeds....

As someone who doesn't follow Penny Arcade drama, what was this about?

Apparently people were donating money to Child's Play thinking the money was going to go towards buying a new ending for Mass Effect 3:

http://tinyurl.com/86znmsy

... I don't get it. Why are people mad at PA over that?
 
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21. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 16:15 JohnBirshire
 
I'm not over exaggerating, I used to buy roughly 10 times as many PC games as I do now. Because I knew if I didn't like it, I could throw it on Ebay and get almost all of my money back. Or, if I knew it was only good for 5-10 hours of gameplay, I could buy it without regret. However since most games now require key activation, I am simply unable to sell, so am far more picky about what I buy. As far as my dollars are concerned, trying to kill the used market for PC games has cost them 90% of the money I was giving them.  
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20. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 13:51 nin
 
Used game sales increase the overall market size of the gaming industry.

How so? If one person trades it in, they're not playing it anymore.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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19. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 13:07 Bodolza
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 07:23:
it still doesnt change the FACT that used game sales hurt the publisher.

Its not really an argument, you cant argue about facts, because facts are truth.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not a fact. Used game sales increase the overall market size of the gaming industry. Profits from used game sales may not directly go to the publisher, but an increased market does benefit publishers.

I can't say for a fact that used sales increase or decrease publishers bottom lines, because the numbers don't exist. And neither can you.
 
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18. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 08:31 NKD
 
JohnBirshire wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 07:10:
That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard, people who make it are idiots. The only thing people don't buy and sell used are condoms and toilet paper. If you want to put video games in the same category as them, go right ahead. However, arguing that I can't sell something I bought because the developers would make more money if I didn't is asinine. I guess I should burn my house down and have the builder make me a new one instead of selling, trash my used car and only buy new, etc etc etc. Ridiculous and absurd.

What's ridiculous and absurd is your long string of ad hominem, strawmen, and slippery slopes. I never argued that you shouldn't be able to sell something you bought. In fact, I specifically said the opposite, that I'd like for people to be able to sell to each other without allowing businesses to abuse the right to the detriment of the developer. Your entire post is an angry illogical rant. You may want to calm down before continuing the discussion.

Vampires like LameStop go out of their way to abuse a right we enjoy. In very few industry do Used and New share point of sale so prominently, with the clerk trying very hard to sell you used instead of new. In most industries, there are also far more incentives to buy new, such as warranty coverage, less physical wear-and-tear, and so on. The margins are often better SELLING new products as well, because in most other industries the gap in price between buying a used product and reselling it is much lower. Usually the margin is under 40%. For used games, it's very different, and that's why LameStop pushes it so vigorously.

LameStop takes advantage of the fact that a used game is little different from a new game by keeping used game prices very near new game prices, and offering only IN-STORE reimbursement for a selling them a used game. They can pull in 100% pure profit by buying someones used game and reselling it. The seller gets nothing, the developer gets nothing, and the buyer gets raped.

Again, I never argued that we shouldn't be able to sell used games, but the games industry and other industries are not the same, and because of that there will eventually be a used games crackdown. LameStop and friends have abused the right very severely and are seriously impacting the income publishers and developers derive from sales.

It IS costing them money. It IS a serious issue for them. And it IS going to hurt us all in the long run when they lock down titles to a single machine.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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17. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 07:23 InBlack
 
JohnBirshire wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 07:10:
It is, it's (arguably) worse. If someone goes into LameStop and buys a used copy for $50 instead of a new copy for $60. That's a ready and willing customer that, in effect, chooses to get the game without giving any benefit to the developer.

That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard, people who make it are idiots. The only thing people don't buy and sell used are condoms and toilet paper. If you want to put video games in the same category as them, go right ahead. However, arguing that I can't sell something I bought because the developers would make more money if I didn't is asinine. I guess I should burn my house down and have the builder make me a new one instead of selling, trash my used car and only buy new, etc etc etc. Ridiculous and absurd.

Yes it is, but it still doesnt change the FACT that used game sales hurt the publisher.

Its not really an argument, you cant argue about facts, because facts are truth.

Its got nothing to do with you personaly. Its got everything to do with the money you have in your pocket and where it ends up though.
Yes its a fucked up world we live in.
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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16. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 07:10 JohnBirshire
 
It is, it's (arguably) worse. If someone goes into LameStop and buys a used copy for $50 instead of a new copy for $60. That's a ready and willing customer that, in effect, chooses to get the game without giving any benefit to the developer.

That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard, people who make it are idiots. The only thing people don't buy and sell used are condoms and toilet paper. If you want to put video games in the same category as them, go right ahead. However, arguing that I can't sell something I bought because the developers would make more money if I didn't is asinine. I guess I should burn my house down and have the builder make me a new one instead of selling, trash my used car and only buy new, etc etc etc. Ridiculous and absurd.
 
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15. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 01:33 Sepharo
 
Crustacean Soup wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 20:16:
Ever since Penny Arcade got all douche bag over the ME3 ending child's play donation thing I have removed that site from my feeds....

As someone who doesn't follow Penny Arcade drama, what was this about?

RME blog

A campaign was started to donate money to Child's Play to express gamers' dissatisfaction with the ending of ME3. When people began to think that PA or Bioware was involved and some thought they were paying for a new ending, PA asked that the campaign stop facilitating donations to Child's Play. The organizer agreed and capped the donations at their current level of $80,000.
 
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14. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 01:30 Elf Shot The Food
 
Crustacean Soup wrote on Apr 10, 2012, 01:22:
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 20:16:
Ever since Penny Arcade got all douche bag over the ME3 ending child's play donation thing I have removed that site from my feeds....

As someone who doesn't follow Penny Arcade drama, what was this about?

Apparently people were donating money to Child's Play thinking the money was going to go towards buying a new ending for Mass Effect 3:

http://tinyurl.com/86znmsy
 
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13. Re: etc, etc. Apr 10, 2012, 01:22 Crustacean Soup
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 20:16:
Ever since Penny Arcade got all douche bag over the ME3 ending child's play donation thing I have removed that site from my feeds....

As someone who doesn't follow Penny Arcade drama, what was this about?
 
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12. Re: etc, etc. Apr 9, 2012, 23:16 NKD
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 22:52:
Scud wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 22:48:
My respect for them went down considerably when they said that buying used games is as bad as piracy.

Sorry if this derails the thread (and Jerykk shows up) but...

It is, it's (arguably) worse.

Yup. From the perspective of the developer/publisher it directly correlates to lost sales, unlike piracy where a download doesn't tell you shit.

If someone goes into LameStop and buys a used copy for $50 instead of a new copy for $60. That's a ready and willing customer that, in effect, chooses to get the game without giving any benefit to the developer. LameStop loves to shill their used copies because it means they don't have to order more new copies from the developer. And they move such volume and do it so aggressively that it's way worse than people just ebaying their old games.

I really wish there was a way to keep the LameStop vampires out of it while still letting John Q. Public sell a game to a buddy.

Unfortunately LameStop is going to ruin everything for the rest of us because they've taken a right we value and abused the shit out of it for their own profit.

But more on-topic, this Ocean Marketing guy is so hilarious. Typical brain-dead e-thug. Guy needs to mate with a belt-sander.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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11. Re: etc, etc. Apr 9, 2012, 22:52 Sepharo
 
Scud wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 22:48:
My respect for them went down considerably when they said that buying used games is as bad as piracy.

Sorry if this derails the thread (and Jerykk shows up) but...

It is, it's (arguably) worse.
 
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10. Re: etc, etc. Apr 9, 2012, 22:48 Scud
 
My respect for them went down considerably when they said that buying used games is as bad as piracy.  
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9. Re: etc, etc. Apr 9, 2012, 22:47 Sepharo
 
I don't always agree with their taste in games or many of their opinions on the industry, but when it comes to their business I can't fault them a bit.

I think Christoforo has been handled exactly the way he should've been by Penny Arcade.

I also agree with their request that the RME campaign stop funneling donations to Child's Play. People were mailing PA asking how much they need to donate, or asking for refunds when realizing they didn't know what was going on. Did you guys read the RME blog? I don't think anyone has any reason to doubt that it went down that way. $80,000 was still donated.
 
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8. Re: etc, etc. Apr 9, 2012, 21:30 ASeven
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 9, 2012, 21:08:
Well that might be surprising to you but I never knew that before that. The whole story was the only reason i even read up on how idiotic that PA statement regarding this issue was.

To be honest I long stopped frequenting that site when I saw that they were providing free hype and fanboyism on a lot of titles, some of them truly horrid like DA2. The ME3 treatment from them is just a glimpse at how horrible they are when it comes to stick up for gamers.
 
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7. Re: etc, etc. Apr 9, 2012, 21:08 eRe4s3r
 
Well that might be surprising to you but I never knew that before that. The whole story was the only reason i even read up on how idiotic that PA statement regarding this issue was.  
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