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Arma III Animations Trailer

The Arma III Website has an update from Bohemia Interactive Studios on the animations in their upcoming military shooter sequel, describing how they are using three optical motion capture systems, including high-end Raptor-4 cameras from Motion Analysis Corp (thanks Slippery_Jim). They offer an interview with Zdeněk Vespalec, talking with the game's animation lead, and offer this trailer showing how this all looks in the game.

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45. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 10, 2012, 04:07 Muscular Beaver
 
And thats how I know that you will never like ArmA - seeing such stupid comments about broken issues, if they are not broken, so its futile wanting it to change to something like MW3. Thats like someone whining that his sedan is no tricycle and thus cant be driven on walkways. How dare they build such a thing, breaking things with "useless" other stuff!

Those options are necessary. They were only examples, but I use them all the time. Telling them to switch to anti personnel ammo instead of anti tank for example is extremely important. You cant kill a tank with frag ammunition and you cant kill infantry with anti tank ammo. And if you let them decide on their own, it might be too late, because switching ammo while being engaged, is very stupid.

This comment was edited on Apr 10, 2012, 04:45.
 
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44. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 9, 2012, 09:09 Quboid
 
I think you've put your finger on my problem there. Not the patronising reference to consoles (of which I own none), but the "move across map, sit here, switch ammo type, light camp fire and close doors" bit - this doesn't sound overly complicated to you?

I like the "freedom, realism and massiveness in this game", what I don't like is freedom, realism, massiveness and immersion breaking issues. If they got rid of the last of these, Arma would be great. As it is, it is trying to bite off more than it can chew and trying to do things which are too complicated to pull off. It's not the game that's too complicated, it's the user interface. When you're pinned down, trying to achieve fire superiority while reading a list of commands to order your squad to fight properly isn't freedom, isn't realism and isn't massiveness, it's awkward and very unrealistic.
 
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43. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 9, 2012, 04:38 Muscular Beaver
 
I never had problems with that. Prolly because I am not spoiled by simple console controls.
Selecting the unit(s), then one of the 10 command structures and then the final command. Thats not really that complex if you know how to use a keyboard properly. You just need to memorize the few important ones, so they work faster. You can give all sorts of commands, even if you want one of your soldiers to run across the whole map and enter a vehicle there in a particular seat and switch the ammo type while telling him to put on a camp fire and close doors of buildings. So, you need to have a much more complex system then the one in brothers of arms. Again, that was extremely simple compared to ArmA, because it was a much simpler game too. Please stop comparing such games to ArmA, it doesnt prove your point in any way.

And yes, you need to give the AI those commands, because they react completely different on each of their reaction-commands, so if you give or dont give those commands, they might not do what you want properly. And since you dont want it even more "complex", you wouldnt want that either to not be that way.

Voice commands might be a good idea on the first glimpse, but in multiplayer it wouldnt work with voice chat running, unless you would use a push to talk button, which only few people use. Not to mention that such an engine costs additional money and isnt working 100% all the time.

Anyway, ultimately I doubt you will ever like such a game. Its much too complex for you. Youre talking of immersion, being broken by a few things that can be tolerated and are necessary or have been fixed years ago, so you really do not like this type of game.
Its all about the freedom, realism and massiveness in this game, and its all being done by a very small developer. You want this to be cut dont, effectively changing the whole game concept. Nope. You dont like this game at all.
Especially right now, there is no one who can or will do it better than that. Or are you still clinging onto Codemasters and OFP7?

This comment was edited on Apr 9, 2012, 04:47.
 
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42. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 20:56 Quboid
 
I also found the commands to be clunky. If I'd stuck with it I would have learnt the most important combos but it's not as intuitive as Brothers In Arms. Two squads seems to be the best way to do commands. I wonder if voice control could be used to implement flexible control over a better number of different units; if it was properly done so you seamlessly barked out orders then it could be great (but not for other people in the room).

Better AI would help too. I shouldn't have to tell them to be aware or take cover. Even if a real commander would do this, the complicated command system means it's too fiddly. If I could shout "get down" or "take cover from the east" and have them jump to it then it would be a lot more immersive.

That's what a lot of it came down to - issues breaking immersion. Reading through command menu options breaks immersion. Having a menu pop up and awkwardly scrolling through to enter a vehicle breaks immersion. Have a squad mate die because he didn't dive into cover, getting sniped at half a mile by someone with an AK47, having a vehicle bounce and vibrate because the clipping doesn't work, finding moving and turning clunky, robotic voices ... I really admire what Arma is trying to be but there's just too many little things that stop me from getting into it.
 
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41. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 18:18 Muscular Beaver
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:02:
The thing about giving orders in ARMA is that the squad AI is brain dead so you still end up having to do everything yourself. If you don't walk around with a RPG and sniper rifle you can be 100% sure your stupid squad dies at the hands of either a sniper or a tank.

The only thing the squads in Arma are good for is "healing" you or being there to jump in a new character when you die ;p

At least in OFP2 your squad was not totally brain-dead, even if it was a terrible game

You just need to learn to use them properly. Tell them to take cover, tell them to engage on their own, tell them to be aware, tell a few to scan the horizon, put up scouts and snipers, coordinate attacks - thats your job as a commander.
Also whats very important: They only rarely see your targets on their own, you have to tell them those targets first, and they wont attack targets while on the move without you telling them to, because they will act as if they have to go somewhere quick, if you dont tell them otherwise.
Selecting all of them, then hitting 7 and 2, will do wonders alone. Its just awesome seeing them seeking cover, peeking around corners on their own, giving covering fire for you and their teammates, waiting for the others to be in position, then the others cover the one that previously covered them, etc. Seeing them move through a village like that is just awesome.
OFP2 was a childs joke compared to that.

If you follow all this, you will be surprised how you can rip even 3 times as many enemies a new one.
 
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40. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 18:09 Muscular Beaver
 
Donkey_Punch wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:16:
Until they figure out how to prevent an enemy AI from seeing and killing you with an AK47 from miles away the game will always be for a niche market only.

I am tired of dying from some enemy AI that shoots with super-human precision when I still can't even see him.

I understand your frustration. Sometimes its really unfair, and theres still a lot of tweaking to be done on the AI. However, it is extremely hard to spot enemies in this game, especially when tehre is lots of vegetation around. "Camping" soldiers will always have a huge advantage, because they can spot movement much easier.

The "cheating" AI also relativize once you can spot them better with thermal. You can actually see very well how they seem to cheat. They work together, talk to each other and look the direction where a shot came from.

Yeah, they still cheat sometimes, because they can see through bushes sometimes (though that has become very rare), but you also have to realize that this is no Rambo game. One man would never be able to kill more than 5 people, even in an ambush, before he would get owned without cover. Now, if you have a squad of 11 AIs, this is a total different story. You can accomplish much more with them.
 
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39. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 18:02 Muscular Beaver
 
NigerianRoyalty wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:33:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 11:50:
Also the player movement can get a little stale at times. It feels clunky. I know it varies and depends on the characters load. And before you say anything I've played old school tactical shooters. I own every Rainbow Six and the original Ghost Recon series with all expansions. I enjoy slower more realistic movements. But again smoothing them out to feel better not faster. I don't want it to be a overly fast paced shooter. Maybe it's just the camera that makes it seem clunky but I doubt it I remember that feeling well while playing the first couple games. Even if this studio only was involved with the first release.

Probably the camera and the artificial mouse lag. I spent hours trying to fix the mouse, which felt like I was pulling around my soldier's face with a rubber band, only to learn from the Arma forums this is intentional and supposed to simulate the weight of your weapon. Why they don't simply make your weapon crosshair lag behind your mouseview is baffling but it was enough to break the game for me.

You can fix that easily by using an TrackIR. In any case, you would still die before you could aim properly.
 
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38. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 18:00 Muscular Beaver
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:41:
NigerianRoyalty wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:33:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 11:50:
Also the player movement can get a little stale at times. It feels clunky. I know it varies and depends on the characters load. And before you say anything I've played old school tactical shooters. I own every Rainbow Six and the original Ghost Recon series with all expansions. I enjoy slower more realistic movements. But again smoothing them out to feel better not faster. I don't want it to be a overly fast paced shooter. Maybe it's just the camera that makes it seem clunky but I doubt it I remember that feeling well while playing the first couple games. Even if this studio only was involved with the first release.

Probably the camera and the artificial mouse lag. I spent hours trying to fix the mouse, which felt like I was pulling around my soldier's face with a rubber band, only to learn from the Arma forums this is intentional and supposed to simulate the weight of your weapon. Why they don't simply make your weapon crosshair lag behind your mouseview is baffling but it was enough to break the game for me.
Whoever told you the cursor's behaviour was to "simulate the weight of the weapon" was lying. Or you misunderstood them. I presume you simply dragged the floating cursor slider to 0 in the options?

If it's actual lag you're talking about, try the latest patch or beta. They rebuilt the way the game handles mouse input 6 months ago, so there should be improvement if you're experiencing lag.

Not true. Pick up an M16, aim with it. Now do the same thing with an AS50 or an higher caliber MG. HUGE difference. Also very noticeable with AT weapons. Framerates below 30 fps just add to that effect, but they are not really a cause for it.
 
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37. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:43 Dmitri_M
 
NigerianRoyalty wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:40:
Some of us remember titles more ancient like the original Rainbow Six and loved them, but still can't get into Arma.
Yeah it's boring talking about this but ArmA isn't built on an ID engine. The czechs at BIS "did it their way", if you can't adjust to the movement system it's best to just give up.
 
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36. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:41 Dmitri_M
 
NigerianRoyalty wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:33:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 11:50:
Also the player movement can get a little stale at times. It feels clunky. I know it varies and depends on the characters load. And before you say anything I've played old school tactical shooters. I own every Rainbow Six and the original Ghost Recon series with all expansions. I enjoy slower more realistic movements. But again smoothing them out to feel better not faster. I don't want it to be a overly fast paced shooter. Maybe it's just the camera that makes it seem clunky but I doubt it I remember that feeling well while playing the first couple games. Even if this studio only was involved with the first release.

Probably the camera and the artificial mouse lag. I spent hours trying to fix the mouse, which felt like I was pulling around my soldier's face with a rubber band, only to learn from the Arma forums this is intentional and supposed to simulate the weight of your weapon. Why they don't simply make your weapon crosshair lag behind your mouseview is baffling but it was enough to break the game for me.
Whoever told you the cursor's behaviour was to "simulate the weight of the weapon" was lying. Or you misunderstood them. I presume you simply dragged the floating cursor slider to 0 in the options?

If it's actual lag you're talking about, try the latest patch or beta. They rebuilt the way the game handles mouse input 6 months ago, so there should be improvement if you're experiencing lag.
 
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35. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:40 NigerianRoyalty
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:20:

For the rest of us that remember ancient titles Ravenshield and OGR, we have games like ArmA.

Some of us remember titles more ancient like the original Rainbow Six and loved them, but still can't get into Arma. You can assume you are a more hardcore gamer if you'd like. To be honest I'm not sure how else anyone can rationalize buying things like TrackIR Pro
 
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34. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:33 NigerianRoyalty
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 11:50:
Also the player movement can get a little stale at times. It feels clunky. I know it varies and depends on the characters load. And before you say anything I've played old school tactical shooters. I own every Rainbow Six and the original Ghost Recon series with all expansions. I enjoy slower more realistic movements. But again smoothing them out to feel better not faster. I don't want it to be a overly fast paced shooter. Maybe it's just the camera that makes it seem clunky but I doubt it I remember that feeling well while playing the first couple games. Even if this studio only was involved with the first release.

Probably the camera and the artificial mouse lag. I spent hours trying to fix the mouse, which felt like I was pulling around my soldier's face with a rubber band, only to learn from the Arma forums this is intentional and supposed to simulate the weight of your weapon. Why they don't simply make your weapon crosshair lag behind your mouseview is baffling but it was enough to break the game for me.
 
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33. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:20 Dmitri_M
 
Donkey_Punch wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:16:
Until they figure out how to prevent an enemy AI from seeing and killing you with an AK47 from miles away the game will always be for a niche market only.

I am tired of dying from some enemy AI that shoots with super-human precision when I still can't even see him.
Lucky for you there's a whole bunch of other shooters developed over the last 10 years that are easy to play.

For the rest of us that remember ancient titles Ravenshield and OGR, we have games like ArmA.
 
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32. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:16 Donkey_Punch
 
Until they figure out how to prevent an enemy AI from seeing and killing you with an AK47 from miles away the game will always be for a niche market only.

I am tired of dying from some enemy AI that shoots with super-human precision when I still can't even see him.
 
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31. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:13 Dmitri_M
 
Quboid wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 13:03:
I'm sure there must be a way to get it right while maintaining realism. But I've no idea what it is.
To many fans of the series it is "right". ArmA's gameplay is a world unto itself, an acquired taste..either accept the way it is or move on I'm afraid.
 
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30. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:03 Quboid
 
Good point. I sure it's just because I've been conditioned by Doom and Quake to expect unrealistically responsive controls but that doesn't change the fact that to me, Arma feels like ass. Not nice pert ass, like Scarlett Johansson in front of a hotel room mirror, but big, hairy ass.

I'm sure there must be a way to get it right while maintaining realism. But I've no idea what it is.
 
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29. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 13:02 eRe4s3r
 
The thing about giving orders in ARMA is that the squad AI is brain dead so you still end up having to do everything yourself. If you don't walk around with a RPG and sniper rifle you can be 100% sure your stupid squad dies at the hands of either a sniper or a tank.

The only thing the squads in Arma are good for is "healing" you or being there to jump in a new character when you die ;p

At least in OFP2 your squad was not totally brain-dead, even if it was a terrible game
 
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28. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 12:59 Dmitri_M
 
Quboid wrote on Apr 8, 2012, 12:48:
That bothered me too, all the soldiers have the same gait. For a bit I thought they were all synchronised, like how each soldier in a unit in Total War used to be at exactly the same animation frame.
Unlike most shooters where the animations are just visual things other players see, in OFP\ArmA they directly determine the speed at which your character moves. You can't have even slightly different walk animations because the animation itself determines the speed. In ArmA you ARE the player model. In BF3, Quake etc you're a free floating camera and the game happens to be playing some animations to go along with the movements of that camera.
 
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27. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 12:48 Quboid
 
That bothered me too, all the soldiers have the same gait. For a bit I thought they were all synchronised, like how each soldier in a unit in Total War used to be at exactly the same animation frame.

The movement (which is indeed a separate thing to animation) always bothered me. I know turning instantly isn't realistic enough but Arma and Op-FP1 both felt wrong. Turning off the mechanism where your aim would move before your body when you turn helps, but not enough.
 
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26. Re: Arma III Animations Trailer Apr 8, 2012, 12:35 Dmitri_M
 
Smoke and mirrors. This title has used mocap'ed animations since 2001. The quality of the mocap has no relevance to the way a character controls in game. The underlying movement system is the same as previous titles. They have made advances in superficial ways like ragdoll. Any improvements that directly effect gameplay are still just tweaking the old system. You're just not going to see them suddenly adopt an ID shooter style movement system. BIS's is totally different.

The only difference between ArmA 1 and ArmA 2's movement was reloading while running. I don't expect a major shift between 2 and 3.
 
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