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Evening Legal Briefs

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20. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 19:06 LittleMe
 
So if a 14 year old girl sends a nude pic of herself to someone as a silly joke or prank, she shouldn't ever be allowed the play games online for the rest of her life. Justice in a modern fascist society.  
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19. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 13:39 Beamer
 
CommunistHamster wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 13:28:
It's a mental health issue rather than a criminal issue though, wrt paedophilia. The hate that gets bandied around on this topic is astounding, even considering the parenting instincts.

Now, closer to the age of consent, that's a different story. The only problem is the potential power differential with older partners.

It's not a mental health issue in many cases. I won't say most, but it's probably most. In many cases it's also a cultural thing. As many people here don't believe, I worked in a criminal courthouse in one of the more impoverished parts of the country. Here's a general guideline about child molestation by older males:

1) In poorer hispanic communities it's considered prestigious to take a girl's virginity, and it's accepted that people start having sex in their early teens. Therefore men have sex with younger girls regularly and it isn't thought of as being weird or wrong. Many of the interactions fall into this category and prosecutors really want nothing to do with it unless the girl is extremely young. If the girl is 14 or older there's no point to it. These cases are weird because no one involved thinks any wrong was done.
2) In poorer black communities most of the adult/child relationships aren't as consensual. Typically it's something out of convenience, and what you often see is a man moving into an apartment with a woman and her daughter. The man works different hours than the woman and is home alone with her daughter. The man abuses the daughter. It's not a "I love young girls" thing it's a "this female is in the next room" thing. These cases are usually awful because it's a sad looking lonely man and a mother/daughter that are terribly estranged due to it. Very often you see the mother blaming the daughter. Very rarely was the daughter given any choice.
3) With white people in these communities it's the batshit insane ones. There are fewer white people in these communities so often it's someone coming from a wealthier area into the community expressly to find a young girl. It's someone with serious issues. These cases are the worst because there's probably violence.



To clarify, these generalizations aren't about the communities but the ways child predation occurs in them. I'm not saying "poor black people molest children because it's convenient" I'm saying "poor black people that molest children do it because it's convenient more then because they have an uncontrollable urge." The white people that wander into poor ethnic communities are the ones most likely to have that urge. Which makes sense, ones doing it out of convenience are doing it in their own communities.
 
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18. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 13:33 eRe4s3r
 
What? How is choosing to commit a crime against children a mental health issue? (I am asking this honestly, I can not Imagine how committing a crime, can be anything but a free choice by the criminal) and free choices against laws are a crime, not a mental illness.

Even if the crime is committed under drugs or alcohol, they just remove inhibitions, that means the potential for the crime was there all along, and thus alcohol or drug can not ever be a valid reason for lesser punishment.

 
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17. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 13:30 Beamer
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 10:17:
You keep trying to argue using statistics as truth. Its insensitive and intolerant. Do you really think that man, who lost his wife, his kids, his job and his dignity would consider his problem a "small" problem in the grand scheme of things???

No, but the kind of thinking in that post is standard "blame the victim" thinking, and it makes a bigger problem worse while making a smaller problem better.

Which is a bad, dangerous thing. Yes, it sucks that the one guy lost his wife, kids and job. But hell, you bitch about "political correctness" yet you are focusing on a minority that had an issue rather than a majority that isn't protected well enough?

Statistics ARE truth, which is a weird thing to fight against, but how many actual rapes do you hear about? Few. It's the false ones that make headlines. Then, when Ben Roethlesberger or Kobe Bryant rapes someone idiots like Prez are all "she wanted it" or "she shouldn't have worn such a short skirt."

Prez, by the way, claims to be a beacon of logic and bastion of reason but is really a self-centered nit.
 
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16. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 13:28 CommunistHamster
 
It's a mental health issue rather than a criminal issue though, wrt paedophilia. The hate that gets bandied around on this topic is astounding, even considering the parenting instincts.

Now, closer to the age of consent, that's a different story. The only problem is the potential power differential with older partners.
 
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15. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 13:26 eRe4s3r
 
True and I agree, but if only that would be what would be prosecuted primarily, in reality even hugging your own daughter can get you a pedophilia lawsuit nowadays and this pisses me off. The word has become so muddled that it means nothing definite anymore.

And by the way the age puberty hits is not majorly 13+ anymore, probably because of whatever is in the food. And to be clear, i do not, ever, defend sexual assaults against children (and with 14 or below i consider them children). My point merely is that 1) when puberty hits it can no longer be considered "against nature" and thus 2) it is primarily a moral based law, and morals can change *very* quickly. Hence, it can not be a sickness that is curable, and with that i Include what you meant.

Pedophilia is a crime comparable to rape, not a sickness.

And by the way, when I say pedophilia i do not mean Japanese Mangas or drawings or literacy or whatever. I mean an actual physical crime. Not at thought crime.
 
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14. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 13:15 Cutter
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 08:47:
Cutter wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 01:36:
Even with pedos I have some sympathy inasmuch as that they have some serious mental/biochemical problems because, let's face it, that isn't normal.

Your definition of "normal" is hilarious, do you think anyone gave a damn about the age back 200 years or 2000 years? What about 100000 years ago? When average lifetime was 30 years reproduction happened as soon as at all possible because younger = healthier. That is a biological reality.

If anything over abundance of humans (lets call it, overpopulation) and high-end medical systems made this biological reality one we can ignore with our moral choices without suffering for it as a race or even personally.

And while I would agree that nowadays Pedophilia is wrong, in the grand scheme of things, biology overrules morals. So at best, currently it is the opposite of "normal" when looking at it from a historic perspective.

There's a reason why we hit puberty at 13+/- and yes things were different when the average lifespan was about 30+/-. If you have to grow up hard and fast then it's really not that young. However we say pedo we're talking about people who molest babies and kids only several years old and can't stop themselves. That isn't and hasn't ever been normal anywhere in anytime.
 
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13. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 12:57 eRe4s3r
 
Try reading my post again I said while I agree on prosecution (in these times) I disagree that he said this is a sickness. Which is complete nonsense for the reasons mentioned.

I didn't defend anything, I dismantled his reasoning that pedophilia is a curable sickness.

Also your post is pretty much completely missing both points, the one quoted and mine. So congrats on that
 
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12. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 12:45 NKD
 
Blanket actions against sex offenders are ridiculous and unfair given the way the current system works. The whole system needs a revamp, with better categorization, and ways off the list for non-predatory offenders who are unlikely to re-offend.

I'd have no problem with these sorts of things if the sex offender registration system only contained people convicted of serious crimes. But that's not the case.

As it stands right now, the guy who got on the list for pissing on a tree faces the same restrictions as the guy on the list for nailing a dozen 10 year olds.
 
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11. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 12:01 Prez
 
Goddamn I'm so glad I'm long past trying to argue logic with Beamer. Trust me; you'll be happier with him on "Ignore".  
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10. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 10:17 InBlack
 
You keep trying to argue using statistics as truth. Its insensitive and intolerant. Do you really think that man, who lost his wife, his kids, his job and his dignity would consider his problem a "small" problem in the grand scheme of things???  
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9. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 10:05 Beamer
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 09:57:
Beamer wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 08:36:
Rigs, stories like that are relatively rare compared to people actually taking advantage of children.

But what they do is convince people that they're super common, and therefore when someone actually is raped their entire existence is torn apart by people thinking they're obviously a lying slut. Just another reason why they rarely come forward and file a claim.


Your final line is kind of scary - for every 1 man that's had his life destroyed unfairly there are thousands that have gotten away with rape. Why are you so heavily focused on the one in a thousand victim instead of the other 999?

Do you have to be the contrarian to everyone? Are you really such a shamelessly fascist prick? He was relating a PERSONAL story since he knew the girl in question. How the fuck did you turn that personal story around so you could have your dig at Riggs??

Its because of people like you that people in the USA and elsewhere are ashamed to express their opinion and have to conform to the "Politicaly Correct" way. Fuck that.

So you complain about someone being contrarian and expressing his opinion by telling him to not be contrarian and tell others how to express their opinion?

Men accused of rape falsely = small problem
Women not stepping forward after being raped because they'll be torn to shreds by people accusing them of accusing falsely = large problem



Sorry if I don't sympathize with the "woe is me, it's so hard to be a man, of the tens of thousands of girls raped every month one man is occasionally falsely accused" opinion that has been expressed on this board numerous times.
 
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8. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 09:57 InBlack
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 08:36:
Rigs, stories like that are relatively rare compared to people actually taking advantage of children.

But what they do is convince people that they're super common, and therefore when someone actually is raped their entire existence is torn apart by people thinking they're obviously a lying slut. Just another reason why they rarely come forward and file a claim.


Your final line is kind of scary - for every 1 man that's had his life destroyed unfairly there are thousands that have gotten away with rape. Why are you so heavily focused on the one in a thousand victim instead of the other 999?

Do you have to be the contrarian to everyone? Are you really such a shamelessly fascist prick? He was relating a PERSONAL story since he knew the girl in question. How the fuck did you turn that personal story around so you could have your dig at Riggs??

Its because of people like you that people in the USA and elsewhere are ashamed to express their opinion and have to conform to the "Politicaly Correct" way. Fuck that.
 
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7. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 09:54 Beamer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 08:47:
Cutter wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 01:36:
Even with pedos I have some sympathy inasmuch as that they have some serious mental/biochemical problems because, let's face it, that isn't normal.

Your definition of "normal" is hilarious, do you think anyone gave a damn about the age back 200 years or 2000 years? What about 100000 years ago? When average lifetime was 30 years reproduction happened as soon as at all possible because younger = healthier. That is a biological reality.

If anything over abundance of humans (lets call it, overpopulation) and high-end medical systems made this biological reality one we can ignore with our moral choices without suffering for it as a race or even personally.

And while I would agree that nowadays Pedophilia is wrong, in the grand scheme of things, biology overrules morals. So at best, currently it is the opposite of "normal" when looking at it from a historic perspective.

Your entire argument defending pedophilia (which is essentially what you did) goes out the window when you know that very few sex offenders were caught doing anything to girls 14 and over. Courts, and more accurately law enforcement, don't really bother with that unless pushed into it (e.g., high profile cases, parents filing complaints, etc.) It's too common, and as others mentioned it's too grey area as many 14 year olds are already having sex with other 14 year olds, and an 18 year old and 14 year old in the same high school isn't uncommon.

Which is why law enforcement, when doing "to catch a predator," will typically pretend to be 11 or 12, occasionally but rarely 13. If you want to argue that a 48 year old man having sex with an 11 year old is a biological reality even though that 11 year old isn't yet capable of reproducing then be my guest. I'll just stand far, far over there.
 
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6. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 08:47 eRe4s3r
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 01:36:
Even with pedos I have some sympathy inasmuch as that they have some serious mental/biochemical problems because, let's face it, that isn't normal.

Your definition of "normal" is hilarious, do you think anyone gave a damn about the age back 200 years or 2000 years? What about 100000 years ago? When average lifetime was 30 years reproduction happened as soon as at all possible because younger = healthier. That is a biological reality.

If anything over abundance of humans (lets call it, overpopulation) and high-end medical systems made this biological reality one we can ignore with our moral choices without suffering for it as a race or even personally.

And while I would agree that nowadays Pedophilia is wrong, in the grand scheme of things, biology overrules morals. So at best, currently it is the opposite of "normal" when looking at it from a historic perspective.
 
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5. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 08:36 Beamer
 
Rigs, stories like that are relatively rare compared to people actually taking advantage of children.

But what they do is convince people that they're super common, and therefore when someone actually is raped their entire existence is torn apart by people thinking they're obviously a lying slut. Just another reason why they rarely come forward and file a claim.


Your final line is kind of scary - for every 1 man that's had his life destroyed unfairly there are thousands that have gotten away with rape. Why are you so heavily focused on the one in a thousand victim instead of the other 999?
 
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4. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 04:17 Rigs
 
Wow, Cutter, I have a slightly new view of you now, as I agree almost 100%. I'm used to the PC rhetoric bullshit 'Burn them alive at the stake while we stone them!' that is typical of these kinds of discussion topics...I'm reminded of the very real situation of a girl I once knew and very rarely hung out with who was 14 (I was 18) but she routinely got into the local bars and nightclubs without so much as a glance at her ID. If you didn't know her, you'd swear she was closer to 20-21, and she did nothing to change that view. She was the middle of a 5 girl, 2 boy family, ranging from the youngest girl at 8 to the oldest boy at ~22. Everyone in the neighborhood knew them and they were all quite popular at school. The only thing that really kept me from being even remotely interested was the fact that, with the exception of the two oldest kids, the rest were about as smart as a pile of rocks. The girls were always trying some crazy new shit to get high or have fun. (There isn't much for a kid their age to do around my area in FL, believe it or not, not all of FL is Disney World) I remember one time the one sister, 12, would choke herself to near unconsciousness and then try to walk around or fall down stairs because 'it felt cool!'...Yeah, like I said, pile of rocks...

Anyway, the middle girl, 14, was in band ('This one time, at band camp'...) and the whole group went in two buses to an away game. Well, apparently, from the numerous sources I've heard it and pieced it all together from, she started flirting and really laying it on her band teacher. Your guess is as good as mine as to 'why', as the next bus over was full of football players, though I suppose thinking about it now, she might have already gone through that whole group by that time (again, from what I've heard, she was, indeed, that bad and had next to zero supervision from her parents/family) The band teacher, on the other hand, supposedly happily married with two kids and a long career of teaching music, just totally and completely shut her down and rejected every advance she made. After the two hour trip back, and her then going home, it then came out later that evening that she had been 'molested' and 'taken advantage of' by the band teacher. Much later on, when the truth finally came out, she said she had accused him of doing it precisely because he wouldn't! This was like a year or more later and by then his job had been terminated, his name plastered everywhere as a child molester/rapist/pedo, his life, name and marriage ruined, and he had to move out of the state he had lived in his whole life because of the harassment, not the least of which came from the girls own older brothers. They actually very nearly killed him that first night, having gone out with a baseball bat and a gun, looking for him. Luckily, he wasn't at home and they didn't know where he had gone...

And after utterly destroying this mans life, what happened to the girl? Not one damn thing. Nothing. She graduated fine and went on to live a normal life. The whole thing was quickly forgotten after she came forward and said she had lied. As for him, I don't really know, actually. I've tried to follow it as much as possible because I know the girl, but I haven't heard anything about him since it was said he moved out of state, alone, after his wife filed for divorce and custody of their kids.

This is why this shit really gets me pissed! I've seen girls 14-16 in bars and clubs locally, drinking and everything, and unless you actually knew them and their age, you'd think they were 18-21. I mean, if a girl is in a club or bar, drinking, then you have every right to assume they are 21 or older, right? But the problem is, and like what happened to the band teacher, is that the guy is practically crucified while the girl is free to do whatever they please with no repercussions. And it will stay that way and other men will have their lives destroyed until something serious is done to change the perception in this country that guys will screw anything that moves and girls don't poop!


=-Rigs-=
 
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3. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 6, 2012, 01:36 Cutter
 
Prez wrote on Apr 5, 2012, 21:16:
I'd say that the sex offenders ought to be blocked from breathing, but in our crazy legal system a guy who got arrested for having consensual sex with a consenting 17-year-old gets lumped in with the sub-human monsters that prey on little kids for their sick jollies, so it wouldn't be fair.

As many have pointed out in the Ars comment there's a major difference between sex offenders and predators...especially in the US. I have a good friend in the states that is a registered sex offender. Why? Because he picked up a girl at a bar who happened to be 16 when he was 22. It was entirely consensual and he was under the impression that she was 19 and certainly looked it. And even though she had no problem with it after the fact it was her parents who pressed charges. He's had a major portion of his life destroyed because he was drunk and picked up a chick in a bar who certainly looked legal. That's not right.

Even with pedos I have some sympathy inasmuch as that they have some serious mental/biochemical problems because, let's face it, that isn't normal. That's the short of shit that needs more of a medical than criminal treatment. Hell, we have literal psychopaths out there running Fortune 1000 companies and no one bats an eye when they destroy the lives of people financially. While I've always loved most of the US is about, the general paranoia and reactionary attitude in many aspects of American life isn't one them.

Yes, kids need to be protected from predators. That's a given. Who exactly is a predator needs a lot more work.
 
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2. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 5, 2012, 23:01 LittleMe
 
Yeah that article read as if it was typed up by the NY State government themselves, along with some help from MS & Sony. Wouldn't be surprised in the least. Anything to get paid in this shit economy, eh? It was like reading a fascist propaganda article. Don't forget to obsess about crime and live in constant fear of the bogey man!!



FTA -
He also noted that 27 percent of teenagers aged 12 to 17 play games online with people they don't know.

Good use of useless information to breed fear in the populace. A+ for this marketing guru.

The user comments on the story are enlightening, however.
 
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1. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Apr 5, 2012, 21:16 Prez
 
I'd say that the sex offenders ought to be blocked from breathing, but in our crazy legal system a guy who got arrested for having consensual sex with a consenting 17-year-old gets lumped in with the sub-human monsters that prey on little kids for their sick jollies, so it wouldn't be fair.  
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