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Wasteland 2 and Obsidian

The Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Page has news that InXile plans to collaborate with Obsidian on their upcoming Wasteland sequel, which ensures the participation of designer Chris Avellone, who has worked on the Fallout series that succeeded the post-apocalyptic RPG. They stress that this will only happen if they hit the $2.1 million funding plateau, but this seems like a foregone conclusion, as they are over 80% of the way there at over $1.7 million pledged with more than two weeks remaining in their fundraising campaign. Here's a bit:

For those of you who don't know who Obsidian or Chris Avellone are, they are the bulk of the brains who worked on Fallout 1&2, Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment when I was back at Interplay. More of the band is back together to make sure we bring you a fantastic RPG. Chris is going to help push the density and literary content of the game.

The original Wasteland was an important game to Chris as he recently stated, "Wasteland is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, and when Brian asked if I wanted to work on the sequel, I jumped at the chance. While I've worked on Fallout 2 and Fallout: New Vegas, getting the chance to work on the spiritual predecessor to the Fallout franchise is a honor."

While the programming work will remain with us here at inXile, we are looking to use a host of tools that Obsidian has created which will help us get assets into the game faster. The faster we can implement and iterate on content, the deeper the game and the more varied choices the gamers can make.

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36. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 23:51 Beamer
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 31, 2012, 23:08:
But as long as they deliver in the fun being smaller in scope is indifferent, or in fact a clear advantage. Sometimes simpler is better.

The problem is that "fun" is such a vague concept. Some people think realism is fun, which is why they have no problem spending half an hour just to get their plane off the ground in a hardcore flight sim. Other people think fun means being completely overpowered and being able to do whatever you want without facing any real challenge. Other people think its fun to explore huge, detailed worlds with lots of pretty things to look that.

The kind of fun you have in a game like Skyrim can't really be replicated in a low-budget indie game. Whether or not you care about that kind of fun is up to you.

I tend to think that, when your posts are mirrors to what my posts would be, we must be right.
Is that wrong?
 
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35. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 23:08 Jerykk
 
But as long as they deliver in the fun being smaller in scope is indifferent, or in fact a clear advantage. Sometimes simpler is better.

The problem is that "fun" is such a vague concept. Some people think realism is fun, which is why they have no problem spending half an hour just to get their plane off the ground in a hardcore flight sim. Other people think fun means being completely overpowered and being able to do whatever you want without facing any real challenge. Other people think its fun to explore huge, detailed worlds with lots of pretty things to look that.

The kind of fun you have in a game like Skyrim can't really be replicated in a low-budget indie game. Whether or not you care about that kind of fun is up to you.
 
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34. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 14:15 ASeven
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 31, 2012, 13:13:
Dev wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:35:
BTW, if you haven't noticed already, this is a MUST READ interview. I picked out some of the most interesting parts to me personally, but its well worth RTFA if you have any remote interest at all in these subjects.

Here's the link again if you missed it earlier (thanks for the find ASeven):
link

Thanks for the link, makes me think again how terrible the current business situation for gaming as a whole is. You got publishers with no friggin clue, and you got developers who are not allowed to have a friggin a clue. Thats why no decent AAA title releases with new ideas. It's all retreading what has already been done, even (imo) great games like Skyrim or Deus EX HR are just clones, improved yes, but NOTHING inherently new and fresh. Heck isn't it sad as fuck that of all the Evil Publishers EA actually published Mirrors Edge? A first person parcour game with a female main character?

That is the most unique AAA game I ever saw. And the last, because apparently it didn't sell 2 million units to warrant a decent sequel. Besides Mirrors Edge I can't even *think* of a big AAA game with a fresh and new idea. I could list dozen of Indy games though.. but they are smaller in scope.

But as long as they deliver in the fun being smaller in scope is indifferent, or in fact a clear advantage. Sometimes simpler is better.
 
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33. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 13:13 eRe4s3r
 
Dev wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:35:
BTW, if you haven't noticed already, this is a MUST READ interview. I picked out some of the most interesting parts to me personally, but its well worth RTFA if you have any remote interest at all in these subjects.

Here's the link again if you missed it earlier (thanks for the find ASeven):
link

Thanks for the link, makes me think again how terrible the current business situation for gaming as a whole is. You got publishers with no friggin clue, and you got developers who are not allowed to have a friggin a clue. Thats why no decent AAA title releases with new ideas. It's all retreading what has already been done, even (imo) great games like Skyrim or Deus EX HR are just clones, improved yes, but NOTHING inherently new and fresh. Heck isn't it sad as fuck that of all the Evil Publishers EA actually published Mirrors Edge? A first person parcour game with a female main character?

That is the most unique AAA game I ever saw. And the last, because apparently it didn't sell 2 million units to warrant a decent sequel. Besides Mirrors Edge I can't even *think* of a big AAA game with a fresh and new idea. I could list dozen of Indy games though.. but they are smaller in scope.
 
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32. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 12:27 Dev
 
BTW, if anyone wants to give some input into wasteland 2, they've set up forums:
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/index.php
They have a forum for what the game MUST include, and one for what the game should avoid, and others besides.

This comment was edited on Mar 31, 2012, 13:23.
 
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31. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 07:13 theyarecomingforyou
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 31, 2012, 00:05:
If your objective is make as much money as possible, indie games are not going to cut it. Marketing is what sells games to the most people and marketing relies on big-budget production values. That's why traditional publishers are never going to disappear. There will always be developers who want to make games with big-budget production values and there will always be publishers who will want to sell such games.
Yes, but they're being distributed via-Steam which means they'll almost certainly feature on the Steam Store and smaller games have been known to do exceptional well on Steam. Not only that but if the core game itself is better due to the lack of a publisher meddling with their artistic vision then it could turn out better than some of the big-budget productions.
 
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30. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 31, 2012, 00:05 Jerykk
 
It's not about pretty graphics or expensive engines and voice-overs, it's about fun and this proves it. A fun game will always trump shiny and pretty production values and the proof is in the rise of the indie scene as a viable alternative to mainstream game. And this is something Fargo is very well aware of.

If your objective is make as much money as possible, indie games are not going to cut it. Marketing is what sells games to the most people and marketing relies on big-budget production values. That's why traditional publishers are never going to disappear. There will always be developers who want to make games with big-budget production values and there will always be publishers who will want to sell such games.
 
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29. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 21:44 TurdFergasun
 
onboard for $15 for now. definitely like the cut of this guy's jib, and what kickstarter projects mean for the future of game development.  
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28. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 20:16 ASeven
 
Dev wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:35:
Here's the link again if you missed it earlier (thanks for the find ASeven):
link

Hey, my pleasure!

Kickstarter will never kill publishers. What might "kill" them is the doors projects like this one opens, for instance the Kickback program Fargo started.

People don't need a multi-million dollars game to have fun and play. Hell, if anything the past couple of years have taught us is that indies can provide far more fun games than most AAA at a fraction of development cost.

It's not about pretty graphics or expensive engines and voice-overs, it's about fun and this proves it. A fun game will always trump shiny and pretty production values and the proof is in the rise of the indie scene as a viable alternative to mainstream game. And this is something Fargo is very well aware of.
 
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27. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 20:10 jimnms
 
nin wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:04:

I always thought New Vegas was the buggiest of them all.

Other than the eyes on the side of the dogs head (which freaked me out a little, understandably ) I didn't see many bugs.


At launch there was the bug with the facegen that causes stutter and lag. The fix was to use a console command or the hacked dll. I used the console command, which had to be entered every time you ran the game, which also disable achievements (which I didn't know at the time).

I didn't run into many big bugs until later on. One location was so badly bugged it was known to corrupt save games. I had to re-load an earlier save, but I was lucky and caught it early and only lost about an hour. I just went about my business and wrote in my notes to go back when it was fixed.

I think they patched most of the major bugs in the end, but there are still a lot left, like two of the casino's don't return your companion's weapons when leaving. They broke Boone in the 2nd or 3rd patch, and they never bothered to attempt a fix until the last or next to last patch. He still isn't fixed and totally broken when in combat.

The community bug fix is definitely needed. I've contributed a couple of small fixes to it. I fixed one of the casino scripts, which although took a while to figure out, it turned out to be a simple misspelling causing the weapons not to be returned. Another fix I did was when I got a 12ga shotgun and converted my ammo to slugs, I noticed I wasn't receiving any empty hulls. I poked around in the GECK and saw that it defined the percent of shell recovery but not what type of empty shell to give you.
 
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26. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:57 Dev
 
Alamar wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:52:
I totally disagree : )

But I do appreciate some of the quotes, even if you're obsessing : )

Personally, I don't remember Wasteland, and watching a video of it removed any remote interest I may have generated looking at the passion in these threads...

So I'll look at it when it's near completion, and I hope it's what you all want : )

-Alamar
Hey, no problem. Not everyone has the same tastes in games. Variety is the spice of life.

Fortunately, there's enough people who are interested in wasteland/fallout type games to make up for it

Plus at $15, its not too much risk.
 
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25. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:52 Alamar
 
Dev wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:35:
BTW, if you haven't noticed already, this is a MUST READ interview. I picked out some of the most interesting parts to me personally, but its well worth RTFA if you have any remote interest at all in these subjects.

Here's the link again if you missed it earlier (thanks for the find ASeven):
link

I totally disagree : )

But I do appreciate some of the quotes, even if you're obsessing : )

Personally, I don't remember Wasteland, and watching a video of it removed any remote interest I may have generated looking at the passion in these threads...

So I'll look at it when it's near completion, and I hope it's what you all want : )

-Alamar
 
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24. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:52 StingingVelvet
 
Weird Avallone and Obsidian just didn't launch their own. I guess this doesn't preclude that, but still.  
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23. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:51 StingingVelvet
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:24:
In Obsidian's defense, Bethesda was 100% responsible for QA on New Vegas. Instead of properly testing the game and sending reports back to Obsidian on what to fix, they rushed it out the door as quickly as possible.

Indeed. And honestly in my experience the game wasn't even that badly bugged, about the same as Fallout 3. I hear the console versions were worse though.
 
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22. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:35 Dev
 
BTW, if you haven't noticed already, this is a MUST READ interview. I picked out some of the most interesting parts to me personally, but its well worth RTFA if you have any remote interest at all in these subjects.

Here's the link again if you missed it earlier (thanks for the find ASeven):
link
 
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21. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:34 Dev
 
And another quote:

MF: Does working with the publisher inflate the budget?

BF: In my experience, yes.

MF: About how much?

BF: At least 25%. In some cases, 35%, because sometimes they insist on taking over functions like doing all the casting and audio recording, where they would spend way more than what we would, if it was our money. I mean, it is our money, because itís advances, but they insist on taking it over. They can trump the cost up.



Now keep in mind this is only projects he's been on. I'm sure some AAA projects nowadays are inflated even more. Also, he goes into some interesting detail about an experience where a publisher forced an expensive voice director onto him and wouldn't let the devs talk with the voice actors.
 
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20. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:29 Dev
 
And more, for the guys who say kickstarter is going to kill publishers:

" People keep talking about how itís the end of publishers, but thatís kind of an overstatement. Weíre not going to Kickstart $100M productions. I think a lot of the really good talent is going to see people, like ourselves, doing smaller projects and having fun again. They are going to want a taste of that."

Mad Max RW wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:24:
In Obsidian's defense, Bethesda was 100% responsible for QA on New Vegas. Instead of properly testing the game and sending reports back to Obsidian on what to fix, they rushed it out the door as quickly as possible.
Yeah and that interview confirms that.
 
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19. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:26 Dmitri_M
 
Dev wrote on Mar 30, 2012, 19:21:
MF: How many publishers did you pitch Wasteland 2 to before going the Kickstarter route?

BF: Every major one. I was turned down by everybody.

Clearly he didn't pitch it as a first person shooter.
 
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18. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:26 Dev
 
He also explains the Bard's Tale sequel:

MF: The new Bardís Tale is still sitting on my shelf. I love that game.

BF: Well, the hard core arenít too fond of it, but it definitely has its fans. Hereís how I explain that game. I had just left Interplay, I was kinda in a funny mood and I was playing other peopleís roleplaying games. They were sending me to kill rats in a cellar and I was like, ďAre you kidding me? Theyíre still doing this stuff?Ē So, I was fed up and Bardís Tale was my parody of it. So, I set out to do a light RPG that was a parody. For that effort, I think I deserve an A. For the hard core, they wanted an absolute Bardís Tale sequel, so for them, it was an F.
 
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17. Re: Wasteland 2 and Obsidian Mar 30, 2012, 19:24 Mad Max RW
 
In Obsidian's defense, Bethesda was 100% responsible for QA on New Vegas. Instead of properly testing the game and sending reports back to Obsidian on what to fix, they rushed it out the door as quickly as possible.  
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