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Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN

The TAKEDOWN Kickstarter Page offers a few changes from when this fundraising proposal launched earlier this month for a "Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter." There's an article on Kotaku explaining what's different (as we have entered an era when even crowdsourcing gets rebooted), regretting their failures at conveying why gamers should be excited about this project and picking a name that "SUCKED." In addition to the new title, the site offers new art and other resources to attempt to convey what to expect. Word is: "Will we be successful? Time will tell. We'll write a postmortem for other game developers to learn from, so no matter what we hope to make the landscape better for others. But no one will be able to say we gave up."

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35. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 19:32 Dades
 
Your second and third points are difficult to agree with as well.

You are obviously dense or a defensive console shill, perhaps both now that I think about it. You've spouted a lot of crap but said nothing concrete to dispute any point we've said. Please point to some hardcore tactical simulations and shooters on the consoles made in the past five years and also point to future plans to make them. Please explain how hardcore games will overcome the need for many controls with input devices that house a very limited number of buttons. Please say Kinect, so we can all have a laugh.

If it isn't on the horizon no one cares, people aren't saying it could never ever happen in a million years. It's extremely unlikely because it is not a good fit on consoles for all of the reasons people have explained to your dense self several times already. People aren't self funding these games through Kickstarter because the industry is so receptive to them.

PC users whine so much about being underestimated then constantly retaliate by underestimating everyone else.

Sorry I forgot console users are misunderstood geniuses who reward complexity....through buying several iterations of the same dumb games that get easier every year.
 
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34. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 10:02 netnerd85
 
@Beamer, go play GRAW2 on the PS3 then go play it on the PC. Okay, different developers and fairly different games but do it.

Then play Rainbow Six Vegas on the PS3 and then the PC.

Go play Rainbow Six on the N64 then on the PC.

Go play Hidden and Dangerous on the PS1 and DreamCast (without keyboard) then on the PC.

It's called, wait for it, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. What have you got? nothing to say?

We know from experience, they don't work.
 
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33. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 09:37 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 07:40:
No one is making hardcore shooters for consoles because they won't sell a million copies, they are too difficult for console players who like easy games and they require input devices with more controls.

Your second and third points are difficult to agree with as well.
You're putting out speculation with the proof being "no one is doing it." Before Pirates of the Caribbean no one was making pirate movies because they always lost money.

Sitting around saying "it's impossible because no one is doing it" is usually a bad way to go about things. Saying "my evidence is that no one is doing it" is usually a bad way to go about things. Saying "they don't like difficult things and want them to be easy" is really just flat-out dumb. PC users whine so much about being underestimated then constantly retaliate by underestimating everyone else.


Yes, Dades, you're the only smart person that likes being challenged, and yes, the controls from the original Rainbow 6 could never be properly mapped to a keyboard. Hell, it's a limiting factor, but it isn't as if you can count on mice having more than 3 buttons on the PC and there aren't many controls you can move your fingers to without removing them from wasd, which means those actions require you to stand still, which means they become little-to-never used actions.
 
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32. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 07:40 Dades
 
No one is making hardcore shooters for consoles because they won't sell a million copies, they are too difficult for console players who like easy games and they require input devices with more controls.  
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31. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 07:30 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Mar 29, 2012, 07:21:
Beamer wrote on Mar 28, 2012, 09:47:
This isn't very compelling evidence.

Are you hiding some that the rest of us don't know about? How about some trends pointing in that direction?

Any hardcore tactical sims being developed on the consoles? Anything even in the planning stages? Anything at all? No? Ok then.

So just because no one has made one or is making one means they do not work?
For all the whining about how stupid publishers are you're suddenly putting enormous faith in them here.

 
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30. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 07:21 Dades
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 28, 2012, 09:47:
This isn't very compelling evidence.

Are you hiding some that the rest of us don't know about? How about some trends pointing in that direction?

Any hardcore tactical sims being developed on the consoles? Anything even in the planning stages? Anything at all? No? Ok then.
 
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29. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 29, 2012, 00:54 netnerd85
 
Teddy wrote on Mar 28, 2012, 02:35:
Good thing you read and listened to what they had to say before you ran your mouth off like an idiot. They didn't compare CoD to a tactical shooter, they very specifically talked about how the term Tactical Shooter has been co-opted by action games LIKE CoD.
Read the text... obviously, did you?
Teddy wrote on Mar 28, 2012, 02:35:
You can NOT have a tactical game that runs on a console. END OF STORY.
Because you said so? Goodness, what a great argument. I'm sure sold.
Play some games... what are you their one fan?
 
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28. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 28, 2012, 09:47 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Mar 28, 2012, 07:27:
Because you said so? Goodness, what a great argument. I'm sure sold.

Please go through the extensive list of hardcore tactical shooters released in the past six years and let's discuss your take on things genius.

This isn't very compelling evidence.
 
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27. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 28, 2012, 07:27 Dades
 
Because you said so? Goodness, what a great argument. I'm sure sold.

Please go through the extensive list of hardcore tactical shooters released in the past six years and let's discuss your take on things genius.
 
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26. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 28, 2012, 02:35 Teddy
 
netnerd85 wrote on Mar 27, 2012, 20:40:
I'm sorry but when they compare COD to a tactical shooter they just show what a complete bunch of idiots they are.

Good thing you read and listened to what they had to say before you ran your mouth off like an idiot. They didn't compare CoD to a tactical shooter, they very specifically talked about how the term Tactical Shooter has been co-opted by action games LIKE CoD.

You can NOT have a tactical game that runs on a console. END OF STORY.

Because you said so? Goodness, what a great argument. I'm sure sold.
 
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25. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 20:40 netnerd85
 
I'm sorry but when they compare COD to a tactical shooter they just show what a complete bunch of idiots they are. They have NO idea who their market is, they just want publisher money by the looks of it. Completely generic concept done a million of times by the sounds of it. And they stole the City Interactive's Terrorist TAKEDOWN name. Pathetic or a joke?

You can NOT have a tactical game that runs on a console. END OF STORY.

Don't believe me, check out Rainbow Six (original) on the N64 and PlayStation. Then play it on PC
 
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24. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 18:42 Dmitri_M
 
How many decent indie FPS titles exist that also have SP?

You could probably list a boatload of Quake engine based sci-fi shooters, likely all MP only.. I wonder how many tac shooters you'd find.
 
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23. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 18:08 Dev
 
PunkiBastardo wrote on Mar 27, 2012, 10:06:
I'm sorry for them, but if they had aimed a little lower and really really cut out the publisher, I'd be interested.
Yeah, they could have aimed a bit lower, gotten a decent indie type game out, and sold it, and then after that, took his success to a publisher and said "you want to buy the rights to this proven successful franchise and make a full AAA sequel for it?"
Then he could have had both worlds, a decent kickstarted indie game, and a publisher would be FAR more interested in a proven franchise, especially if he sold them the rights to the franchise (perhaps taken a small royalty). Instead, it sounds like he just wants people to fund his alpha demo to show to publishers to get interest.
 
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22. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 12:09 nin
 
The investors will then pony up the rest of the cash to begin development on the game

It's another potential point of failure, though. What if, even after the kickstarters put their money in, there's not enough investors? Is he going to refund their money?

And, as Punki points out, what happens when those investors want changes to be made, or else they walk?

By keeping it a small, fan funded project, he doesn't lose control. Instead, he wants to use it as a springboard to something bigger, which makes it that much harder to please everyone.

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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21. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 11:37 Verno
 
I don't know, I see it as nothing ventured, nothing gained. These games don't come out anymore, this is the only way we'll get to see them. If it doesn't get funded then I've lost nothing and if a shitty game comes out then oh well, lesson learned. Each Kickstarter project is unique, people need to stop lumping them all in together.  
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20. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 10:18 NKD
 
Verno wrote on Mar 27, 2012, 09:24:
Well this time it will be us getting burned when a project doesn't make it to completion, not some publisher. In what world is paying sight-unseen a smart consumer decision? The only Kickstarters I'll ever pay for are the ones with a working alpha I can play right now. That shows at least some level of commitment.

Again, we get burned enough by publishers as it is, I don't really see a big difference. People pay sight unseen for things all the time, whether its smart or not depends on the situation. I put money towards things like this because its the only way I'll see products like it again. No one is saying you have to do the same thing, feel free not to contribute if the nature of it bothers you.

People put cash towards this knowing the risks, they aren't fooling anyone. If people get burned then they will be pickier about who to support, I don't really see the big deal.

Oh it's not really a big deal, it's just not a magic bandaid that's going to deliver all the games we ever dreamed of but were not financially feasible to bring to market. There are going to be a lot of people looking to cash in on gullible but jaded gamers.

Just a word of warning. I think people are getting a little too optimistic about this Kickstarter stuff.
 
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19. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 10:06 PunkiBastardo
 
I've kickstarted other games, but as much as I'd like another Rainbow Six, these guys just don't give me enough confidence to put the money in...

Say they get kickstarted, and then their publisher/investor says: Ok, I'm in! but I really need to get some profit over this, so... let's seamlessly add some COD elements to the mix, you want my money no?

I'm sorry for them, but if they had aimed a little lower and really really cut out the publisher, I'd be interested.
 
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18. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 09:40 theyarecomingforyou
 
It's ending on the 1st April? Sounds pretty dodgy to me.

Anyway, I hadn't even heard of this until today and to be honest I'm really not surprised - it looks like an amateur operation.
 
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17. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 09:24 Verno
 
Well this time it will be us getting burned when a project doesn't make it to completion, not some publisher. In what world is paying sight-unseen a smart consumer decision? The only Kickstarters I'll ever pay for are the ones with a working alpha I can play right now. That shows at least some level of commitment.

Again, we get burned enough by publishers as it is, I don't really see a big difference. People pay sight unseen for things all the time, whether its smart or not depends on the situation. I put money towards things like this because its the only way I'll see products like it again. No one is saying you have to do the same thing, feel free not to contribute if the nature of it bothers you.

People put cash towards this knowing the risks, they aren't fooling anyone. If people get burned then they will be pickier about who to support, I don't really see the big deal.

This comment was edited on Mar 27, 2012, 09:32.
 
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16. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 27, 2012, 08:49 NKD
 
Verno wrote on Mar 27, 2012, 08:37:
NKD wrote on Mar 27, 2012, 08:30:
This whole "Lets kick out the publishers and do everything via crowdsourcing" shtick is going to get a lot of people burned as these things get funded and then go tits up or end up being terrible.

Those things happen in the traditional publisher segment all the damned time, I'm not really seeing much of a difference. I'd rather get the odd indie flop if it means getting more creative efforts.

Aren't TOR servers emptying out btw?

Well this time it will be us getting burned when a project doesn't make it to completion, not some publisher. In what world is paying sight-unseen a smart consumer decision? The only Kickstarters I'll ever pay for are the ones with a working alpha I can play right now. That shows at least some level of commitment.

Regarding TOR servers, I have no idea, I don't play anymore. I know most of the hardcore players are gone because of the made-for-morons content that makes WoW endgame look like waterboarding.
 
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