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More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions

The Guild Wars Facebook Page has more on the microtransaction system in Guild Wars 2, following up on the recent update on the ArenaNet Blog on the business model for the upcoming MMORPG sequel. Here's word:

Here are a few important clarifications about our microtransaction system. First, that gold is coming from other players. So somebody must have an abundance of gold if he trades it to a player. The system is not adding new gold from the outside.

Second, take into account the gem/gold trading system. Everything that is in the store will basically be available for gold with this system - so it doesn't really matter what is in the store, as it is also available for players who play and don't want to spend additional money. Hope that helps! ~RB2

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42. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 17:27 Endo
 
Krovven wrote on Mar 23, 2012, 02:05:
Endo wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 22:15:
The items referred to as P2W are items you MUST have to be able to compete with other players

Im not really interested in your incomplete definition of P2W. While yes it does pertain to some competitive games, it also pertains to getting bonuses and gear in PvE games too.

Paying for Experience bonuses is Pay 2 Win. Just like paying for Experience bonuses in Tribes Ascend is Pay 2 Win.

Sorry kid, you're flat wrong, as has been pointed out over and over. I was trying to be nice, but I guess it's wasted on you.
 
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41. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 16:28 Teddy
 
Titus wrote on Mar 23, 2012, 16:16:
I think this is the video he is referring to, it's the only video atm with an explorable dungeon run.

The only rezzes that can be seen there are fight to survive, player rezzes, and after death respawns at respawn points in the dungeon

In the video it's clearly pointed out that if you die inside an explorable dungeon, you can (almost instantly) respawn in the dungeon itself, at the last unlocked waypoint, and run back into a fight. They also state that encounters inside the dungeons are explicitly designed around this.

However, you do get damage to your items, and if all your items are damaged, you need to repair in town.

After seeing this, I wonder what use a resurrection orb is at all, perhaps other than to prevent one of your items being damaged.

heh. That's the exact video I watched and edited my comment based on afterwards.

It should bear saying that a "resurrection orb" exists in the original Guild Wars, though only in a specific misson if I read right (I've never seen it myself). What it did there was resurrect all nearby dead allies when it was dropped.

So it is theoretically possible that this could be a form of mass resurrect for your whole party, which could make it immensely powerful. But then we know next to nothing about it, it could have a cast time like a standard res and be interruptable on damage (presumably not using up the item if the cast is not successful) or it could be something you use on yourself as we've been speculating so far.
 
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40. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 16:16 Titus
 
I think this is the video he is referring to, it's the only video atm with an explorable dungeon run.

The only rezzes that can be seen there are fight to survive, player rezzes, and after death respawns at respawn points in the dungeon

In the video it's clearly pointed out that if you die inside an explorable dungeon, you can (almost instantly) respawn in the dungeon itself, at the last unlocked waypoint, and run back into a fight. They also state that encounters inside the dungeons are explicitly designed around this.

However, you do get damage to your items, and if all your items are damaged, you need to repair in town.

After seeing this, I wonder what use a resurrection orb is at all, perhaps other than to prevent one of your items being damaged. From what I've seen, it will only save you a max 30s run.

While I would allow myself to buy €15 of gems a month, I still haven't seen anything other than extra character slots that I would spend my money on. Seeing how huge this game is going to be, why would I want to skip content ?

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2012, 16:30.
 
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39. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 15:40 Teddy
 
Mikus_Aurelius wrote on Mar 23, 2012, 01:46:
Teddy wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 23:31:
Who said they let you rez in combat?

There's video of people doing it in the last beta weekend. I think it's the explorable dungeon run.

I've watched just about every video I can find from the beta weekend, and I don't recall seeing anything of the sort. They showed the 'fight to survive' mechanic a bunch of times with the self-rez if you successfully kill a mob, or the bandage rez if you aren't damaged for a long cast heal. I saw no instant rez using a resurrection orb.

Do you have a link to a video showing it?

Edit: While I found no videos of it occurring, I found a few that discussed death mechanics in greater detail which tend to suggest that the orb probably does function in combat. That said, it's not nearly as powerful as people are perceiving it to be for a few reasons.

1) There are no raids, period. There are bosses that take many people to kill, but they're open to anyone who participates so there's no "lfg with 10 orbs or more" bs that some people are suggesting will happen with those encounters. The only place something like that COULD come up is looking for random groups to do 5 man explorable dungeons with.

2) Fights are not locked out as they are in other MMO's. If you die in a fight and can not be resurrected by the standard game mechanics, you can just respawn at the nearest checkpoint and run back in to rejoin the fight in progress.

3) As the fights are not locked, all forms of resurrecting already function in combat. There are no limited number of battle rez's. As long as a friend can get the "cast" off without being interrupted, they can get you up mid-fight. Or if you take no damage for a set period of time you can get yourself back up, or you can get back up if you kill a mob while in a downed state.

The point being, resurrecting in combat doesn't seem to be as rare a thing as it is in WoW or other MMO's. They've purposely removed the ability from any PVP including WvWvW (as stated in the tooltips in the pictures provided of the item shop earlier in the thread) and with the plethora of resurrect abilities that already function in combat, it has to in some way devalue the usefulness of the orbs though to what extend remains to be seen.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2012, 16:22.
 
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38. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 08:41 Verno
 
Krovven wrote on Mar 23, 2012, 02:05:
Endo wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 22:15:
The items referred to as P2W are items you MUST have to be able to compete with other players

Im not really interested in your incomplete definition of P2W. While yes it does pertain to some competitive games, it also pertains to getting bonuses and gear in PvE games too.

Paying for Experience bonuses is Pay 2 Win. Just like paying for Experience bonuses in Tribes Ascend is Pay 2 Win.


Interesting, just so we're clear on what definition of the word you claim to be using what would your purchase of a $25 rainbow colored horsey in WoW constitute? Going by your logic you have literally paid to win, correct? Sure someone else could have purchased a similar mount in-game but you skipped having to do that work for the convenience of having it quickly. Then World of Warcraft is a pay to win game and Diablo 3 will be pay to win as well. There is a distinction between buying vanity/convenience items and buying balance related items for a reason. That's why people refer to them separately with a P2W label in the first place.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2012, 10:30.
 
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37. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 08:24 Jonjonz
 
When you enter a PVP zone, your level, stats and gear are equalized, but NOT your skills, and skills make all the difference. Only end game toons will have skills maxed, hence the rush to end game toons in order to prevail in PVP.

What you will find, as in PWI, is that the dominant PVP guilds will be made up entirely of powerleveled end game toons with maxed skills. They will have no interest in anything other than PVP, and will expect you to pay your way to get to where they are.

Get out your wallets, or be prepared to GRIND because the cash shoppers will drive up the price of everthing, such that it will take years to grind the needed gold.
 
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36. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 08:16 Jonjonz
 
This is typical corporate pr droid bull.

Look at any game with this type of cash shop set up, like PWI.

What happens is the cash shoppers drive up the price of everything.
The end result are prices so high that it will take a life time to earn the gold required, effectively turning the game into cash shop or GTFO.

What the also fail to mention is that the best gear and buffing items will require Karma, which again will take a regular player ages to earn.

Let me ask just one question, if the content is so good, and easy to level, why is there a need to skip it?

Don't even get me started on the gamboling angle. A pile of cash for the chance to get something? Sounds like a game of chance to me.

The second I saw that screen of CS items, I knew GW2's hype was BS.
 
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35. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 07:23 Dades
 
Krovven wrote on Mar 23, 2012, 02:05:
Im not really interested in your incomplete definition of P2W. While yes it does pertain to some competitive games, it also pertains to getting bonuses and gear in PvE games too.

Paying for Experience bonuses is Pay 2 Win. Just like paying for Experience bonuses in Tribes Ascend is Pay 2 Win.

You're not interested because you were proven wrong several times, how convenient for you. Maybe you should try seeing things from a perspective that isn't Blizzard spin and start using your brain to research them before you type a bunch of inaccurate shit and hit enter.
 
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34. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 02:13 Fion
 
Experience, Karma, Magic Find & Crafting boosts...those are all Pay 2 Win.

These are NOT pay to win.

Experience Boost is negligible because the leveling curve is linear and you hit cap relatively quickly whether you buy a 10% bonus xp for 1 hour potion or not. Leveling doesn't matter in GW2 because you can be level 80 right out of the gate with PvP or go back to level 1 and still find a challenge with side-kicking.

Karma Boost gives a flat bonus to karma gain. This gives you a little more to spend but because the gear ceiling is so low in the game (you'll have max gear by the time you hit 80) it's only useful while leveling and 10% is insignificant because karma is very easy to obtain, just do tasks and participate in dynamic events. That's it.

Magic Find Boost, a flat 10% for 1 hour also has no affect on the game because gear isn't very important and as I said, the gear ceiling is rather low. This is only useful while leveling and gives you no benefit what so ever in PvP.

Crafting Boost again, is insignificant and has no impact on level 80 play. The Boost grants a bonus to XP gain from crafting it has no affect on the item your crafting what so ever.

Seriously, anyone who thinks this stuff is Pay 2 Win simply doesn't understand the game mechanics. Once the game is out this will all blow over and people realize it has no real impact on the game at all.
 
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33. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 02:05 Krovven
 
Endo wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 22:15:
The items referred to as P2W are items you MUST have to be able to compete with other players

Im not really interested in your incomplete definition of P2W. While yes it does pertain to some competitive games, it also pertains to getting bonuses and gear in PvE games too.

Paying for Experience bonuses is Pay 2 Win. Just like paying for Experience bonuses in Tribes Ascend is Pay 2 Win.

 
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32. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 01:46 Mikus_Aurelius
 
Teddy wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 23:31:
Who said they let you rez in combat?

There's video of people doing it in the last beta weekend. I think it's the explorable dungeon run.
 
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31. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 23, 2012, 00:04 Dades
 
Krovven wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 21:35:
Experience, Karma, Magic Find & Crafting boosts...those are all Pay 2 Win. At least they are only 1hr duration, but some wealthy folks I'm sure will buy as many as they need to get from 1 to 80. There are several other items on those screenshots that are borderline depending on their use. Are Mystic Keys available elsewhere in the game, or can I only loot chests in-game if I pay money to do so? What kind of items do the Loot Bags give? I'd assume this is just a sampling of what they will be selling.

Trading of Gold and Gems, making those items available to everyone (provided the Gem to Gold value isnt ridiculous) is tolerable. But they are walking a very fine line here. I wasnt a big fan of the first game, but I was going to buy this to play with friends. Now, I'm going to wait to see how much more information comes out.

Now, where are those that were saying GW2 wasn't Pay 2 Win?

Pay 2 Win means buying an advantage not accessible to other players. No one cares if you're a worthless moron who wants to buy his way to level 80, so long as it doesn't affect PVP balance and is accessible to players who want to be smarter with their money.

Now before you go on a raging bent because you forgot to take your meds today, if Diablo goes this route then it will probably get a pass from players too. That doesn't seem likely though considering it will be dealing in actual drops, many of which will have absurd rarity and might be used in PVP if they ever patch it in.
 
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30. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 23:31 Teddy
 
Mikus_Aurelius wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 23:04:
Endo wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 22:15:
No, these aren't items that are generally considered "Pay 2 Win". The items referred to as P2W are items you MUST have to be able to compete with other players, whether it be in PvP or for PvE slots in a good group.

Like orbs that let you rez up in the middle of a boss fight? Pretty sure every idiot group leader's first question is going to be "how many orbs u got?"

Who said they let you rez in combat?
 
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29. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 23:04 Mikus_Aurelius
 
Endo wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 22:15:
No, these aren't items that are generally considered "Pay 2 Win". The items referred to as P2W are items you MUST have to be able to compete with other players, whether it be in PvP or for PvE slots in a good group.

Like orbs that let you rez up in the middle of a boss fight? Pretty sure every idiot group leader's first question is going to be "how many orbs u got?"
 
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28. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 22:15 Endo
 
Krovven wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 21:35:
eunichron wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 17:32:
wusel wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 15:12:
Judge yourself: leaked item shop screenshots

In my opinion, some of these items aren't vanity and should be in the game itself. I hope they'll add an ignore option for those megaphone broadcasts.

None of those items, to me, look like they would give the player any performance advantage over anyone else. Most of them are just convenience, or quality of life items, not necessary or advantageous at all for gameplay (the Perfect Salvage Kit might be debatable, but still not necessary).

Experience, Karma, Magic Find & Crafting boosts...those are all Pay 2 Win. At least they are only 1hr duration, but some wealthy folks I'm sure will buy as many as they need to get from 1 to 80. There are several other items on those screenshots that are borderline depending on their use. Are Mystic Keys available elsewhere in the game, or can I only loot chests in-game if I pay money to do so? What kind of items do the Loot Bags give? I'd assume this is just a sampling of what they will be selling.

Trading of Gold and Gems, making those items available to everyone (provided the Gem to Gold value isnt ridiculous) is tolerable. But they are walking a very fine line here. I wasnt a big fan of the first game, but I was going to buy this to play with friends. Now, I'm going to wait to see how much more information comes out.

Now, where are those that were saying GW2 wasn't Pay 2 Win?
No, these aren't items that are generally considered "Pay 2 Win". The items referred to as P2W are items you MUST have to be able to compete with other players, whether it be in PvP or for PvE slots in a good group. Typically these will be in the form of certain items you must have to upgrade your gear to the best possible stats (Runes of Magic is a good example here) or just gear itself, or long-term buffs. Technically the controversial items offered in GW2 are, as Mike O'Brien stated, simply "time-saving convenience items". You can get get all the same results without the boosts, it just takes longer. You can do what you need to with less bag space, it just takes more time because you have to run around a lot more and micromanage your inventory a lot more. However, these items are also the kind of items you'd generally not expect to have to buy with cash shop currency... unless the game is going the F2P route.

People are calling Diablo 3 Pay 2 Win because they're assuming there's going to be uber gear available on the AH that most players won't really be able to get any other way. Whether that will be the case remains to be seen, but it's probably a fair guess.

But getting back to GW2, the problem is people feel like the $60 they're paying for the game disqualifies it as F2P. But it doesn't. Look at the cheapest subscriptions for MMOs out there. You'll be hard pressed to find one at less than $10/month, and those aren't doing so well. So going by that, your $60 is at best enough for 6 months. LotRO offered a one-time payment lifetime subscription to beta testers, but it was $200. That's a heck of a lot more than $60, and it was ONLY available to beta testers. In reality all of that is moot because the $60 here should be enough to cover the cost of development and that's about it. If this were a single-player game, that'd be great. It's not. It's also not an instanced game that can get by with a lot less server hardware and bandwidth like GW1 or Diablo or any number of other similar co-op RPGs.
 
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27. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 21:57 Endo
 
Prez wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 20:16:
What exactly did you expect? When have we ever had a real MMO that was truly free to play with nothing to pay for except the initial purchase price and nothing but fluff items in the cash shop? I have never seen such a game, and I would bet good money we never will. You can't compare this with the original GW because it's not the same kind of game.

Well, considering Guild Wars is as close to a MMO that I ever played, what else can I compare it to? I played Guild Wars from day one - when the cash shop appeared, I was pretty much done soon after. I suppose I didn't really expect anything different with the sequel, but it is becoming apparent that like Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 is not for me. Cash Shops are a big reason why I despise MMO's; I was holding out hope Guild Wars would continue to be the "anti-MMO" MMO game. Alas, it's obviously not going to.
Ah, I see. Yeah I guess it's unfortunate for you, but you're not their target market for GW2. For myself, I was pretty stoked when I first read about GW2 5 years ago. But I also had a pretty good idea what it would be. Other things along the way in GW since then has made me a lot less impressed with ANet as a whole, so I'm not nearly as excited as I was back then. But, I'm guessing I'll still be buying the game. Just have to wait and see.
 
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26. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 21:35 Krovven
 
eunichron wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 17:32:
wusel wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 15:12:
Judge yourself: leaked item shop screenshots

In my opinion, some of these items aren't vanity and should be in the game itself. I hope they'll add an ignore option for those megaphone broadcasts.

None of those items, to me, look like they would give the player any performance advantage over anyone else. Most of them are just convenience, or quality of life items, not necessary or advantageous at all for gameplay (the Perfect Salvage Kit might be debatable, but still not necessary).

Experience, Karma, Magic Find & Crafting boosts...those are all Pay 2 Win. At least they are only 1hr duration, but some wealthy folks I'm sure will buy as many as they need to get from 1 to 80. There are several other items on those screenshots that are borderline depending on their use. Are Mystic Keys available elsewhere in the game, or can I only loot chests in-game if I pay money to do so? What kind of items do the Loot Bags give? I'd assume this is just a sampling of what they will be selling.

Trading of Gold and Gems, making those items available to everyone (provided the Gem to Gold value isnt ridiculous) is tolerable. But they are walking a very fine line here. I wasnt a big fan of the first game, but I was going to buy this to play with friends. Now, I'm going to wait to see how much more information comes out.

Now, where are those that were saying GW2 wasn't Pay 2 Win?

This comment was edited on Mar 22, 2012, 21:41.
 
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25. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 20:16 Prez
 
What exactly did you expect? When have we ever had a real MMO that was truly free to play with nothing to pay for except the initial purchase price and nothing but fluff items in the cash shop? I have never seen such a game, and I would bet good money we never will. You can't compare this with the original GW because it's not the same kind of game.

Well, considering Guild Wars is as close to a MMO that I ever played, what else can I compare it to? I played Guild Wars from day one - when the cash shop appeared, I was pretty much done soon after. I suppose I didn't really expect anything different with the sequel, but it is becoming apparent that like Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2 is not for me. Cash Shops are a big reason why I despise MMO's; I was holding out hope Guild Wars would continue to be the "anti-MMO" MMO game. Alas, it's obviously not going to.
 
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24. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 18:54 Endo
 
Prez wrote on Mar 22, 2012, 17:58:
Okay. I just heard everyone saying that the only thing the cash shop would be selling are vanity items. Knowing that the only way to get these items is to grind for them or pay cash for them makes the game less enticing to me, but we'll see.
What exactly did you expect? When have we ever had a real MMO that was truly free to play with nothing to pay for except the initial purchase price and nothing but fluff items in the cash shop? I have never seen such a game, and I would bet good money we never will. You can't compare this with the original GW because it's not the same kind of game.

Personally I am very happy with them going this direction because I would much rather spend money on a few essentials in a cash shop than pay a subscription fee. And I would much rather pay EITHER of the above than put up with another completely instanced game.

Also, Guild Wars isn't going away you know. If that's the kind of game you want, you can keep playing it. There's also plenty other games out there that are more similar to it than GW2 will be.
 
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23. Re: More on Guild Wars 2 Microtransactions Mar 22, 2012, 18:30 Bhruic
 
I really wish they'd just be honest about such things. I mean, maybe I'm misunderstanding the system, but what I'm getting is:
Some items require you to have gems to buy them
You can trade gold for gems in-game
There are no sources of new gems other than real money

And it's the last point that makes it a bit annoying. It's fine to say that "there's nothing you can't get with gold", but that's only true if you have sufficient people willing to sell their gems for gold. Which requires that there are enough people who both want gold, and don't want to spend time finding it in game. In other words, the entire economy is based on how many people spend real money on stuff.

For purely "fluff" items, that'd be fine, but from the sounds of it, it's more than that.
 
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