152 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 5.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 17:06 |
nutshell42 |
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DarkCntry wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:32:
Except a specific quote from Sovereign stating that they, the Reapers, are each nations unto themselves...that doesn't support the collected conscience, nor a single unifying controller over them. The US has 50 States, the EU 27 nations. If anything the fact that each Reaper is somehow a collection of whoever was harvested for its production (otherwise what's the point of the whole space goo operation) then you already have a mixture of some aspects of individuality and a shared whole. The Catalyst is just another level.
As I said, the Geth work in a similar fashion. (Always did, now more so than ever)
I expected a MacGuffin somewhere, but in Mass Effect I wasn't expecting a Star Baby to come out of left field in the last five minutes, give me a run-down of the history of the galaxy despite it slapping the established Lore in the face, and then telling me that I am the sole reason that the galaxy must die. I had stopped listening by that point.
But then that leads us back to the Space Baby...if that AI was there the entire time, why did it not step up in ME1 with Sovereign?
Reread what I said. The Space Baby isn't inside the Citadel. (it says as much) It's the shared consciousness aspect of the Reapers. The Citadel is just a terminal that can be plugged into the Reaper network (again, as I said, until the Protheans pulled the plug)
EDIT:
Look at it this way: The Crucible is StuxNet.
The Reapers are the Iranian nuke program.
You got the virus and the target but how do you deliver the thing? In the real world they used a worm and waited for it to infect USB drives.
In Mass Effect the Iranians had an external supercomputer (the Citadel) that was connected to the internal network until the US pulled the plug on the server to slow down the Iranians.
But now they infected that server with StuxNet and then reconnected it to the Iranian network. As long as no one in Iran had thought to revoke the certificates of the server (which is sloppy but if you've created an unstoppable force of galactic doom then you need some stupidity on their part) you have access and can infect their system.
The Space Baby would have made for a nice discussion on just how deep the Reapers had been in Shepard's brain if it had just kept its mouth shut.
There's a fine line in ignoring and going totally brain-dead...the latter was required to get through the ending unless you wanted to be stuck with a serious kick in the Wolfman Nads..
Just go and take a dump in the meantime, that's what the Bioware scribes did anyway.
The assets have some sway, but thanks to the lack of distinguishing effects in the different endings, it just didn't help portray that fact.
Even that tiny bit is reduced to its numeric value. It doesn't make a bit of difference if you got the Krogans, some random asset from a scanathon or Boo the Hamster.
This comment was edited on Mar 21, 2012, 17:14. |
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| 71. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 17:03 |
RollinThundr |
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Creston wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:00:
avianflu wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 15:57:
Creston that was a really interesting post -- we'll never really know if that guy's post is true but it has the ring of truth to it. I dont understand why there was not at least one other person involved in the decision how to end the game. That is the part of that post that I am not quite willing to believe.
Actually, that's the part that REALLY rings true to me. Because it lines up very much with what that "Final Hours" thing has said, that it was Casey and Mac Walters going over the ending in November, yadda yadda yadda.
Which is in direct contrast to Casey saying earlier that the endingS (plural) and their nearly infinite variations had already been established by the end of ME2, and the team was diligently working TOWARDS them.
Only to then find out that come the last three months before the title's in the shop, they still have to fucking figure them out. It's like Ron Moore and the Final Five. By the end of Season 3, he was going "Shit, I guess I really have to figure out who the final five are."
Creston
I'd be surprised if that write up isn't true to be honest. Laidlaw flat out lied more than once during DA2's dev cycle. I wouldn't doubt it's happened with Hudson in regards to ME3.
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| 70. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 17:00 |
Dev |
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Translation:
"STFU already, our paid reviewers say the game is 10/10 and we have tons of sales, and we can do the game however we want, and you guys are too stupid to understand our sophisticated ending.
We are tired of hearing fans complain so much though, so we will give you idiots some paid DLC to change the ending. We aren't opposed to you handing us more money" |
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| 68. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:58 |
RollinThundr |
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Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 15:41:
We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story
Anyone else chortle at that one?
Bioware is really convinced that their shit doesn't smell.
You should read Mike Laidlaw's or David Gaider's Dragon Age2 posts. Same shit there. Bioware these days as a company is full of pretentious pricks. |
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| 67. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:50 |
TheBigVlad |
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Verno wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:35:
TheBigVlad wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:31:
I would think the point would be to entertain. Many of the choices I made during the series did alter my gameplay experience enough that I felt like they mattered, but I never expected them to make any huge impact to the overall story. I'm not sure why anyone would, honestly.
Bioware has literally said that the game is all about building "your Shepard and telling your story". I get what you're saying about not expecting a totally personalized ending but its hard to argue that it wasn't sold that way. In fact Casey Hudson also said there would be individualized endings that were "too many to count" and claimed that there would not just be a simple three choice ending.
It's not totally about personalization either, a lot of people were very attached to their companions and wanted some explanation in that regard too. The ending should have worked on some level but it just doesn't really seem to satisfy most people no matter what you're into - lore, the characters, your protagonist, etc.
Alright, I understand that people had certain expectations based on BioWare statements and marketing. That makes sense. I guess it just didn't bother me as much as others because I stayed away from all ME3 related hype until release, because I had such little interest in the game other than seeing how the story ends (because I loved ME1). As I've said before, I had no expectations for the game other than it being utter crap. So, it's really hard for me to not be somewhat satisfied. |
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| 66. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:38 |
Tumbler |
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I think one of the things that turned me against these guys and the game in general were all the comments THIS GUY (Casey Hudson) made prior to release about all these features that turned out to be lies.
I would not expect this to be anything other than PR spin. Say whatever it takes to get the money. (or keep the money in this case) I think it's naive to think they've somehow learned from their mistakes. This is all about keeping current sales and making new ones.
Quotes from Casey (Among others)
This comment was edited on Mar 21, 2012, 16:43. |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 65. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:37 |
DarkCntry |
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Verno wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:35:
TheBigVlad wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:31:
I would think the point would be to entertain. Many of the choices I made during the series did alter my gameplay experience enough that I felt like they mattered, but I never expected them to make any huge impact to the overall story. I'm not sure why anyone would, honestly.
Bioware has literally said that the game is all about building "your Shepard and telling your story". I get what you're saying about not expecting a totally personalized ending but its hard to argue that it wasn't sold that way. The ending doesn't really satisfy on many levels. It's not totally about personalization either, a lot of people were very attached to their companions and wanted some explanation or whatever. I never expected an ending with Shepard outside of him/her dying...what *I* wanted was closure on the rest of the people I've met along the way.
Oh yea...and not the horrible way they kicked you in the teeth over Tali. |
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| 64. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:35 |
Verno |
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TheBigVlad wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:31:
I would think the point would be to entertain. Many of the choices I made during the series did alter my gameplay experience enough that I felt like they mattered, but I never expected them to make any huge impact to the overall story. I'm not sure why anyone would, honestly.
Bioware has literally said that the game is all about building "your Shepard and telling your story". I get what you're saying about not expecting a totally personalized ending but its hard to argue that it wasn't sold that way. In fact Casey Hudson also said there would be individualized endings that were "too many to count" and claimed that there would not just be a simple three choice ending.
It's not totally about personalization either, a lot of people were very attached to their companions and wanted some explanation in that regard too. The ending should have worked on some level but it just doesn't really seem to satisfy most people no matter what you're into - lore, the characters, your protagonist, etc. |
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Playing: Super Mario 3D Land, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Hannibal, Community, Life |
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| 63. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:32 |
DarkCntry |
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nutshell42 wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:23:
While the Catalyst didn't appear until 5 min to midnight the existence of a shared consciousness of the Reapers makes a lot of sense.
It's more or less the same arrangement the Geth use now that they've been improved by the Reapers (or used. They either died because you killed them sooner or later or because their Relay blew up) and if you listen to the Reapers in the games they always sound like mixtures between individuality and a hive mind.
Except a specific quote from Sovereign stating that they, the Reapers, are each nations unto themselves...that doesn't support the collected conscience, nor a single unifying controller over them.
The whole arrangement wasn't that bad. There was bound to be a deus ex machina solution because the Reapers were just too powerful. That solution was bound to be a computer virus of some kind because there's no other logical way to kill all the Reapers across the galaxy in a surgical strike.
I expected a MacGuffin somewhere, but in Mass Effect I wasn't expecting a Star Baby to come out of left field in the last five minutes, give me a run-down of the history of the galaxy despite it slapping the established Lore in the face, and then telling me that I am the sole reason that the galaxy must die.
Lo and behold 10 min into Me3 we find the plans for the Crucible which even looks like a virus.
This was the accepted MacGuffin, one that I think everyone expected in some fashion...the writing of the origins of the Crucible is leagues better than what was 'finalized' in the end.
So now we need an attack vector, a way to inject it and what better way than to use the Citadel which we know had a direct connection with the Reapers until the Protheans pulled the plug and which we know could keep up that connection over galactic distances.
But then that leads us back to the Space Baby...if that AI was there the entire time, why did it not step up in ME1 with Sovereign?
I just ignored everything after the part where you have to choose between the Red, Green and Blue Button (did that with Deus Ex, too. It's a surefire sign that the writers have stopped giving a shit and so should you) and was quite happy with the whole thing.
There's a fine line in ignoring and going totally brain-dead...the latter was required to get through the ending unless you wanted to be stuck with a serious kick in the Wolfman Nads..
My main issue is that your war assets have no real meaning at all and the fact that hours of careful galactic diplomacy are worth less than a shitty horde mode with Jim, Bubba and Bill.
The assets have some sway, but thanks to the lack of distinguishing effects in the different endings, it just didn't help portray that fact. |
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| 62. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:31 |
TheBigVlad |
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Creston wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:15:
TheBigVlad wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:06:
It's a story-driven action game. I wouldn't expect my choices to have mattered much, if at all.
It's clear you really understood the whole point about the entire Mass Effect series...
Creston
I would think the point would be to entertain. Many of the choices I made during the series did alter my gameplay experience enough that I felt like they mattered, but I never expected them to make any huge impact to the overall story. I'm not sure why anyone would, honestly. |
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| 61. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:28 |
Acleacius |
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wtf, 75 perfect scores? I haven't played it and don't intend to for awhile but find this highly unlikely. No, not that 75 reviews wouldn't whore themselves out, but that a game can get a perfect score, especially one created for a console.
Just the fact, the targeting is retarded and hit boxes increased, the control scheme, the dialog system, the inventory system...ect. <---See not attacking console games per say but the hardware limitations.
So don't go nuclear troll on me.  |
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| Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history.....and they are stupid. Dwight D. Eisenhower |
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| 60. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:23 |
nutshell42 |
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While the Catalyst didn't appear until 5 min to midnight the existence of a shared consciousness of the Reapers makes a lot of sense.
It's more or less the same arrangement the Geth use now that they've been improved by the Reapers (or used. They either died because you killed them sooner or later or because their Relay blew up) and if you listen to the Reapers in the games they always sound like mixtures between individuality and a hive mind.
The whole arrangement wasn't that bad. There was bound to be a deus ex machina solution because the Reapers were just too powerful. That solution was bound to be a computer virus of some kind because there's no other logical way to kill all the Reapers across the galaxy in a surgical strike.
Lo and behold 10 min into Me3 we find the plans for the Crucible which even looks like a virus.
So now we need an attack vector, a way to inject it and what better way than to use the Citadel which we know had a direct connection with the Reapers until the Protheans pulled the plug and which we know could keep up that connection over galactic distances.
I just ignored everything after the part where you have to choose between the Red, Green and Blue Button (did that with Deus Ex, too. It's a surefire sign that the writers have stopped giving a shit and so should you) and was quite happy with the whole thing.
My main issue is that your war assets have no real meaning at all and the fact that hours of careful galactic diplomacy are worth less than a shitty horde mode with Jim, Bubba and Bill. |
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| 59. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:19 |
DarkCntry |
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Creston wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:17:
necrosis wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 15:59:
If anyone who comes here is curious as to why we hate the ending so and has some time to read a bit give this a look.
A Logical Breakdown of Why the Mass Effect 3 Ending Makes No Sense
That just takes me to a Google docs login screen?
Creston
It's a compiled documents of the major plot talking points and garbled discourse over why most of them are bad. Many are petty good, but the bulk of it contradicts other parts or dismisses precedent in probabilities. |
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| 58. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:18 |
Prez |
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Listening to fans, yes, but making changes to the story because of the displeasure of some players is a nasty precedent.
Normally I'd agree with you, but we're not talking a 50-50 split in the community's opinion here - I've seen polls online that show fans hated the ending by nearly a 10 to 1 margin. While admittedly there can sometimes be a fine line between maintaining integrity of one's artistic vision and just plain old fan service, there's not much in the way of shades of gray here. When that many people are unhappy, it's pretty much a no-brainer that something needs to be changed.
This comment was edited on Mar 21, 2012, 16:50. |
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| 57. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:17 |
Creston |
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| 56. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:16 |
Verno |
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TheBigVlad wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:06:
Just finished the game 30 minutes ago. I was happy with the ending as is. If the problem people have is that the choices you make during the game(s) don't matter in the end... well, this isn't an RPG. It's a story-driven action game. I wouldn't expect my choices to have mattered much, if at all. I guess it's hard for me to not be satisfied though since I thought ME2 was a huge disappointment and I expected ME3 to be total shit, and it wasn't.
Mass Effect was largely sold on its storytelling methods and choice was very prominent. In fact it's been one of the most showcased features in its marketing and one could argue it's defining characteristic outside of its sci-fi setting. |
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Playing: Super Mario 3D Land, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Hannibal, Community, Life |
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| 55. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:15 |
Creston |
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TheBigVlad wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:06:
It's a story-driven action game. I wouldn't expect my choices to have mattered much, if at all.
It's clear you really understood the whole point about the entire Mass Effect series...
Creston |
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| 54. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:14 |
Bhruic |
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Should movies be re-shot because some vocal people didn't like the end product?
You are aware that plenty of movies get released as "director's cuts" because they want to change the way a movie works, right? And that these director's cuts can dramatically change elements of a movie?
edit:
Go google "movies with alternate endings" and spend the afternoon reading how fans/test audiences ended up changing the end of a movie
Or that too. |
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| 53. |
Re: Mass Effect 3 Ending Changes Planned |
Mar 21, 2012, 16:13 |
Flatline |
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Panickd wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 16:05:
Prez wrote on Mar 21, 2012, 15:55:
Good on them for listening to fans.
Listening to fans, yes, but making changes to the story because of the displeasure of some players is a nasty precedent. Should authors of books be forced to continue writing a series endlessly just because fans can't bear to let the characters go (as some suggested JK Rowling should do)? Should movies be re-shot because some vocal people didn't like the end product? Works of art shouldn't strive to make everyone happy with them and creators shouldn't be forced to rework their creations because some people don't like them. Don't like what they did? Great! Go create your own and show them you can do it better.
Err... fans *have* created alternate ME3 endings.
Should movies be re-shot because of shitty endings? Hell yes. It happens ALL THE TIME. It's called "test screenings". The original ending of Army of Darkness sucked donkey balls and the audience shit-canned it. So they went back and created the current ending.
Jesus. Go google "movies with alternate endings" and spend the afternoon reading how fans/test audiences ended up changing the end of a movie. You'll spend an afternoon reading about all of them. |
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152 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 5.
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