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Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs

Obsidian's Chris Avellone indicated that Obsidian just missed a bonus for Fallout: New Vegas, reports Joystiq, saying this came in a tweet from a no longer existent account, allegedly saying: "[Fallout: New Vegas] was a straight payment, no royalties, only a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic, which we didn't." Sure enough, the game currently sits at 84 on Metacritic. They also note their report of layoffs at Obsidian, though these are still unconfirmed. Thanks nin.

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82 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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62. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 08:43 SXO
 
Teddy wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 07:41:
Acleacius wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 02:54:
Teddy wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 23:40:
And considering a vast amount of resources from FO3 were reused in FO:NV, including the engine with very few modifications, it SHOULD have taken them half the resources and time to make NV.
Fine Teddy, give me a comparison, what's your point of reference, what game and budget achieved your results? Quantify.

CJ Parker that post was really to ridiculous to even bother.

What game and budget achieved my results? As in, what games were produced for significantly less cost than the original in significantly less time while using the same base engine? You really need the answer to that one? Pretty much any Call of Duty following Modern Warfare, all based on the same base engine with minor alterations where the bulk of the work was on 'new' content.

The point was very simple. When the base engine is already made for you, and all you're doing is throwing in new content with a tweak or two here and there in terms of technical differences then the game is going to take significantly less time and cost significantly less to make than one where the base engine needs to be created or needs drastic alteration to use. Less time coding, less time debugging = less cost. It's pretty basic logic.
This is utter nonsense. The entire game world had to be created from scratch. The only thing that was reused were a handful of character/creature models, and an even smaller number of weapon/armor models. Everything else was brand spanking new, and when you build a game as large as New Vegas, it's going to take a lot of time.
 
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61. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 08:43 Silicon Avatar
 
http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=35262

Oh I forgot to mention that I have to use that or I get a weird stuttering effect in the game. My FPS aren't low it just stutters without it. It has something to do with timers.

 
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60. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 08:40 Silicon Avatar
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 05:43:
How do you figure Fo2 didn't have a 50's or 60's vibe with New Reno? It obviously wasn't as pronounced but the vibe was sure as shit classic gambling town schtick. It was rougher, but FO3 and FO3:NV also take place after the fact where the major centers are coming more up to speed as well.

My big problem wiht FO3 and NV is how they deal with the BOS. Which IMO would have grown susbstantially in those sorts of circumstances and not diminish. Hell, I'd still like to see a BOS focused game in the FO universe.

The BOS had all the tools to thrive but they seem to have had bad leadership as generations went on. Instead of making communities and growing an economy they withdrew into their bunkers and wouldn't let anyone play with their toys. Maybe the leaders had plans for later on, but never implemented them or waited too long to implement them.

I can see why they would split up into a bunch of BOS factions. Their leaders were short-sighted.

The BOS is one of those really cool groups that kind of got the bone end of the story. But I can see why it might turn out that way.

 
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59. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 08:21 everyone
 
Teddy wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 07:41:
What game and budget achieved my results? As in, what games were produced for significantly less cost than the original in significantly less time while using the same base engine? You really need the answer to that one? Pretty much any Call of Duty following Modern Warfare, all based on the same base engine with minor alterations where the bulk of the work was on 'new' content.
You're seriously going to compare adding a few new guns and maps to COD, to creating an RPG the size of FNV? And ignoring the fact that Fallout 3 wasn't built on a new engine either? Yeah.. you might want to re-think that one.
 
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58. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 08:08 everyone
 
WaltC wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 21:44:
As I recall the vanilla FNV was much, much worse-looking than the vanilla Fallout3
Total bollocks. Most of it looked/was the same. Some of it looked better. None of it looked worse.
It's not a bad looking game either way.
 
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57. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 07:41 Teddy
 
Acleacius wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 02:54:
Teddy wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 23:40:
And considering a vast amount of resources from FO3 were reused in FO:NV, including the engine with very few modifications, it SHOULD have taken them half the resources and time to make NV.
Fine Teddy, give me a comparison, what's your point of reference, what game and budget achieved your results? Quantify.

CJ Parker that post was really to ridiculous to even bother.

What game and budget achieved my results? As in, what games were produced for significantly less cost than the original in significantly less time while using the same base engine? You really need the answer to that one? Pretty much any Call of Duty following Modern Warfare, all based on the same base engine with minor alterations where the bulk of the work was on 'new' content.

The point was very simple. When the base engine is already made for you, and all you're doing is throwing in new content with a tweak or two here and there in terms of technical differences then the game is going to take significantly less time and cost significantly less to make than one where the base engine needs to be created or needs drastic alteration to use. Less time coding, less time debugging = less cost. It's pretty basic logic.
 
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56. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 07:00 Bopper
 
Adjusting employee bonuses according to metacritic scores? This seems like a very bad idea as reviews are (or are meant to be at least partially) opinion pieces on a product and thus can range widely. This also helps promote the kind of back-scratching that happens between publications and game publishers where good review scores are rewarded with benefits i.e. early reviews, press access and complementary handjobs.

This kind of bonus model would make more sense for an indie developer since an indie game may not sell well but the developers' can still be rewarded and encouraged to keep making quality games by the publisher despite the number of sales.

Bonuses should be handed out in accordance with game sales. The best thing you could do is publish the game yourself to then have total freedom to do what you want with the money generated, i.e. Notch sharing out his dividends with all his employees, which was an epic win on his part.
 
- Boppa
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55. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 06:38 Dev
 
Julio wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 06:33:
The guys at Obsidian should have been bribing the reviewers better. How else did PCGamer give DA2 a 95...
Thats probably beth's job, not obsidian.
 
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54. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 06:33 Julio
 
The guys at Obsidian should have been bribing the reviewers better. How else did PCGamer give DA2 a 95...  
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53. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 05:43 Cutter
 
How do you figure Fo2 didn't have a 50's or 60's vibe with New Reno? It obviously wasn't as pronounced but the vibe was sure as shit classic gambling town schtick. It was rougher, but FO3 and FO3:NV also take place after the fact where the major centers are coming more up to speed as well.

My big problem wiht FO3 and NV is how they deal with the BOS. Which IMO would have grown susbstantially in those sorts of circumstances and not diminish. Hell, I'd still like to see a BOS focused game in the FO universe.
 
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"Nobody wants to be nobody in America. Ed is the apotheosis of a prevailing American syndrome. It used to be that someone became famous because they were special. Now people are considered special just for being famous. Fame, itself, is its own virtue.
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52. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 05:20 InBlack
 
Aside from the fact that "THIS CAME FROM A TWEET FROM A NO LONGER EXISTENT ACCOUNT" I have to go on record to say that Fallout:NV was a brilliant game.

Much, much better than F3, and definitely the true spiritual successor to the first two games.

With that said, Chris Avellone and all these twitter itchy developers need to cool it, because they arent really helping anyone with these stupid statements. First of all they end up looking retarded, because who in their fucking right minds would sign a bonus deal based on aggregate reveiw scores, and second of all do you really think Bethesda will go to these guys again after they try to a smear campaign against them???

Damnit all to hell. Obsidian makes the best story driven RPGs ever. Are we going to get an Obsidian developed standalone expansion to Skyrim after this shit now??
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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51. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 05:11 theyarecomingforyou
 
osage no onna wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 05:03:
If this sort of thing is common, it'd be nice if reviewers updated their reviews to reflect the current state of the game, instead of just going "a buggy mess: 65/100" and leaving that on Metacritic for all eternity to bring down the average.
Or publishers could simply stop putting out buggy games. Reviewers simply haven't got the resources to go back and re-review games at a later point - often they don't even complete games as it is.
 
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50. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 05:08 theyarecomingforyou
 
I'll have to give it another go but I didn't get far, primarily because of the bugs and burnout after having completed FO3. It was graphically dated upon release, had numerous technical issues (animals sticking out the ground, stuff I never came across in FO3) and it was poorly marketed, as for a long time I thought it was going to be a completely new game (different engine, possibly different genre) but - on the surface - it just looked like an expansion.

I really don't think the Metacritic score is unfair, though bonuses shouldn't be attached to something so arbitrary.
 
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49. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 05:03 osage no onna
 
If this sort of thing is common, it'd be nice if reviewers updated their reviews to reflect the current state of the game, instead of just going "a buggy mess: 65/100" and leaving that on Metacritic for all eternity to bring down the average.  
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48. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 04:42 Dev
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 22:56:
Tumbler wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 21:52:
Ill have to pick up the complete version that showed up recently. Sounds like this is worth a second shot.

It is. It really is.

You'll need to mod it though. Look at NMC's texeture pack and Mission Mojave to start.

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=43135

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=45104

Most of the stuff in the Top list at the Nexus is worth browsing too, plus plenty of other stuff that didn't make the list.

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/downloads/top/

Vanilla FNV is good by itself but really there's no reason not to at least mod the textures and slap a bug-fix mod on. The ultimate FNV pack is definitely worth the $5 or $10 or whatever it costs if you use mods.

Thanks for the fallout links.
Incidentally Prez, I think he's talking about this:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/2028016/
The ultimate edition of FO:NV (basically all the DLC and the game all in one). If you've bought all the DLC on some of the sales, you should effectively have that version

Asmo wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 23:23:
I don't put up ratings on Metacritic, but if I had FO:NV would have rated poorly because 120 hours in, my game was not able to be finished due to a bugged save from 60 odd hours previous in the ghoul/rocketship misson, despite turning off autosave and doing separate manual saves...
Did you try the Large Address Aware mod so that it can use more than 2gb of RAM? That often helps with crashing.

If it was quest related, did you check the fallout wikia that lists lots of manual fixes you can use for bugged quests? Or you could enter in a console command to teleport you away from the spot that was crashing you. You could manually set quests conditions and spawn the rewards if one of the quests isn't able to be done because of a problem. Yes, its annoying to have to do that, but there's solutions listed there to pretty much all quest problems that can happen, and many of the crashes too.
Also the patches they did (I think they did more and better patches that beth did with FO3) did fix a lot of issues.

And there's that Mission Mojave link in the quote above in my reply. It has 15510 entries in the ESP that are basically all bug fixing.

This comment was edited on Mar 16, 2012, 05:01.
 
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47. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 04:34 Dev
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 22:02:
Well that's how it goes. Same in sports. Don't do enough of XYZ and no bonus for you. Given how much money they make with this sort of stuff anyway I doubt anyone is shedding any tears for them.
There's a lot more money in sports.

Also, they'd probably have made a lot of money if they got ROYALTIES, except they didn't, just a flat payment. The people making the money and raking in the dough are at beth, not Obsidian.

If beth paid obsidian a flat fee of $20 million, and lets say that 100 out of the 135 employees worked on it for 2 years, then that's only $100k per year per employee who worked on it. Keep in mind that it costs a company roughly double to employ someone, so that means the employees would have to work for a salary of $50k. That doesn't count any other expenses such as keeping the company going, doesn't give them any extra money to survive on after completing the game, etc. Also keep in mind that obsidian has to farm out some of the work, such as the voice actors. Even if beth paid them $40 million, after counting the outsourcing and expenses and keeping the company running, pretty sure no one got rich on the proceeds at obsidian. If the company was running flush, they probably wouldn't be laying people off.

On the other hand, I'm certain some VPs in Beth are very very happy and got lots of bonuses with the millions of sales of the game, and all the DLC sales.
Dmitri_M wrote on Mar 16, 2012, 03:57:
Why didn't they just buy a couple of extra reviewers?

I thought that's what game companies did.
Maybe thats what beth did... buy some reviewers... to keep the score low so they wouldn't have to pay the bonus.
I dunno, I doubt that happened, but who knows.
jdreyer wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 22:56:
In the movie industry no one cares if a movie scores terribly on Rottentomatoes or Metacritic, as long as it makes $$$. Do you think studios are NOT throwing money at Michael Bay, for example?
Or there's the case of Peter Jackson where newline didn't want to pay the percentage of the profit that his contract specified, so they claimed that they didn't owe him anything since all three Lord of the Rings movies supposedly didn't actually make a single dollar in profit (aka hollywood math).

This comment was edited on Mar 16, 2012, 04:50.
 
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46. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 04:19 Mac
 
Illumin wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 23:46:
This is just so wrong. Fallout New Vegas was/ is a great game 1 point doesn't stop anyone from buying a game especially if its in the 80+ range. Meta critic isn't the best source of info either.

Why is it wrong - they signed up to a contract with a set target to achieve. they didn't achieve it so do not get anything. This is the way contracts work.

Could you imagine the chaos is all contracts worked on the "close enough theory"?

They should have negotiated for a bonus at 80%+ if it was that important to them.
 
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45. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 03:57 Dmitri_M
 
Why didn't they just buy a couple of extra reviewers?

I thought that's what game companies did.
 
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44. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 02:54 Acleacius
 
Teddy wrote on Mar 15, 2012, 23:40:
And considering a vast amount of resources from FO3 were reused in FO:NV, including the engine with very few modifications, it SHOULD have taken them half the resources and time to make NV.
Fine Teddy, give me a comparison, what's your point of reference, what game and budget achieved your results? Quantify.

CJ Parker that post was really to ridiculous to even bother.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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43. Re: Fallout: New Vegas Bonus Missed by 1 Point; Obsidian Layoffs Mar 16, 2012, 02:23 Fion
 
The only issues I had with NV was it ran like shit the first day but I had a work around in hours and a fix the next day. I crashed occasionally but more often that not it was a mod problem, not a problem with the game.

It's a damn shame, I do hope they got bonuses based on other things, not just the Metacritic score. I know Bethesda would never admit it, but NV is by far the better of the two games, hell it's miles better than Skyrim in a great many ways.

I hope one day to see a sequel from the Obsidian crew. Their other games have there notorious games but man they really hit it with New Vegas.
 
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82 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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