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18. Re: How Television Gets Gaming and Technology Wrong Mar 9, 2012, 19:41 Mr. Tact
 
One of the examples is an IP address with octets above 255, this is no different than when shows use phone numbers with a 555 exchange -- they are purposely using invalid values...  
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17. Re: etc. Mar 9, 2012, 14:31 Mr. Tact
 
I watch movies and play games for the same two basic reasons, for entertainment and to kill time.  
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16. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 21:34 Scottish Martial Arts
 
See, in this regard you're as bad as bloody Ebert... You (and Dimitri) are converting your opinion in to objective fact.

Dmitri and I didn't make an argument for our claim, so you're right to call us on it. That doesn't mean the claim is "like, just your opinion, man". Any claim is, by definition, true or false. So what's the truth value of our claim? Let's look at one possible argument for it.

If gamers were interested in art, rather than gameplay, then they would be just as likely to read a book or watch a movie or go to a museum. By definition, gamers are people who are MORE likely to play a game than to read a book or watch a movie, etc. So gamers are not just as likely to pick another medium. Therefore they don't play games for art.

Formally, let P be the premise gamers are interested in art, and Q be the premise gamers are just as likely to pick another medium.

If P then Q.
~Q.
Therefore, ~P by modus tollens.

The argument is indisputably valid, and the premises seem correct, so the conclusion is that the claim is true.

This comment was edited on Mar 8, 2012, 21:39.
 
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15. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 19:16 PHJF
 
It isn't an opinion that most video games have the narrative trappings of something written by a first grader, and as with movies and literature the quality of storytelling can eclipse or be eclipsed by everything else. Dark Souls has almost story whatsoever, so obviously somebody like Roger Ebert (who clearly doesn't enjoy the actual game part of video games) isn't going to sing its praises.  
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14. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 19:02 Asmo
 
nin wrote on Mar 8, 2012, 12:20:
Roger comes across as a bit of an attention whore. It was so bad, he played 100 hours of it....poor Roger!


Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2012, 14:16:
Well I tend to agree with Roger, but that doesn't stop me from playing games as much as I do. As Dmitri said, gamers don't play games because they're art: they play them because they're entertaining. If you're looking to experience something with the depth and meaning of, say, the Iliad, you're going to read the fucking Iliad, not play Mass Effect.

See, in this regard you're as bad as bloody Ebert... You (and Dimitri) are converting your opinion in to objective fact.

For example, the God of War series, which on the surface is kinda shallow, contains a very interesting take on greek mythology (eg. pandora's box, the war with the titans etc). Forgoing the endless debate on whether games are art objectively, I really subjectively enjoyed a fresh perspective on an age old tale above and beyond the raw gameplay.

You may disagree of course, and your opinion is not wrong any more than mine is right, but that's kind of the point. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and Ebert is petulantly arrogant to believe that just because his opinion on movies carries weight with some people that he can define, or denigrate, a genre of entertainment for all people.
 
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13. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 19:02 Cutter
 
And how many films, given the 10's of 1000's there are, are art? Same with music and any other medium for that matter. Art is like religion. If eough people agree - even though they don't really know why it's art. And if enough people join and believe it stops being a cult and becomes a religion. In other words, it's all entirely arbitrary. The only truly enjoyable art forms are food & drink and porn.
 
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12. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 17:29 Creston
 
"LOOK AT ME, EVERYBODY! LOOK AT ME! I POOH POOH YOUR FAVORITE ENTERTAINMENT MEDIUM! PLEASE LOOK AT ME! PLEASE!"

- increasingly irrelevant old douchetard. Roger Ebert

Creston
 
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11. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 16:27 avianflu
 
the choice of Dark Souls as the one example to represent all video games is easily the oddest thing about the whole article.  
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10. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 16:16 WyldKat
 
First of all, Skyrim won more GOTY awards than Dark Souls. Secondly, Dark Souls is meant to be frustratingly hard to appeal to hardcore gamers, not a wide audience as Skyrim does. He would have been better off reviewing Skyrim, which in many ways has a lot more art to it. But it doesn't matter anyways, he's a film critic, he critiques films. It's obvious that he and Ebert do not have the credentials to take on games.  
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9. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 16:15 PHJF
 
but instead has the express purpose of selling a product. Likewise, the art in games is there to dress up the gameplay, and isn't meant to stand on its own

Except music. Some of my favorite tunes came straight outta video games.
 
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8. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 16:12 Ahumado
 
Dumb...video games are created for kids by kids and are no movie. are movies good things? very few. let the game industry create their own niche  
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7. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 14:32 avianflu
 
The "not spoken out loud issue" is that movies ticket sales are being slowly eclipsed by video game sales in the consumer marketplace. Hence the grumbling by those in Hollywood.

Movie ticket sales have continued to decline for about 15 years now and at the same time 20-somethings have brought video games fully into the mainstream.
 
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6. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 14:16 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Well I tend to agree with Roger, but that doesn't stop me from playing games as much as I do. As Dmitri said, gamers don't play games because they're art: they play them because they're entertaining. If you're looking to experience something with the depth and meaning of, say, the Iliad, you're going to read the fucking Iliad, not play Mass Effect. The best video games seem to be able to do is tack some fan-fiction grade plot onto what is fundamentally not a meaning-filled experience: gameplay. I suppose if the standard of video game writing ever improves -- not holding my breath on that -- games could improve as "art" but then narrative is generally pretty separate from gameplay, and it's gameplay that makes a game, a game.

This isn't to say that video games don't have art in them -- texturing, 3D modeling, music, etc -- but most definitions of high art tend to distinguish between a design and artwork. The empty can of Coke sitting on my desk has an attractive type face, and a nice design on it, but most critics wouldn't call it art because it is not an end in itself (the Latin finis of fine art), but instead has the express purpose of selling a product. Likewise, the art in games is there to dress up the gameplay, and isn't meant to stand on its own. Since to my mind gameplay, the central feature of games, is much more akin to sports than art, games on a fundamental level are something very different from the Iliad or the Discobolus (I'm a Classics nerd, if you can't tell).

This isn't to say that games, like sports, are necessarily lowbrow. Sports can be appreciated on a very high level, but they are something fundamentally different from art. Same goes with games.
 
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5. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 13:11 nin
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Mar 8, 2012, 12:42:
Been reading his film reviews for years. Got no issue with him not liking video games. No one's playing them for "artistic" reasons.

No, but he seems to go out of his way to poo poo them.

I'm sure people thought the same thing about movies 70+ years ago...

 
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4. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 12:42 Dmitri_M
 
Been reading his film reviews for years. Got no issue with him not liking video games. No one's playing them for "artistic" reasons.  
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3. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 12:33 Agent.X7
 
Too bad for Ebert that he is mostly irrelevant. Oh no, you don't think games are art? Well, we don't think your opinion is worth a damn, so who cares?

Honestly, even in the field of movies, who gives a shit what this guy says?
 
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2. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 12:20 nin
 

Roger comes across as a bit of an attention whore. It was so bad, he played 100 hours of it....poor Roger!

 
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1. Re: etc. Mar 8, 2012, 12:16 Wolfen
 
Like any serious gamers really care what movie critics think of "games". It's not their specialty. Stick to movies. Some people just don't like games, and don't get into them.  
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