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Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart

A new Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstarter Page looks to generate funding for a hardcore, close quarters battle first-person shooter for Windows PCs from Serellan LLC. This is the brainchild of Christian Allen, who has been a design lead on Ghost Recon and Halo titles before going indie. There's an interview on Ghostrecon.net talking with Christian about the project, and here's a bit on his approach:

For years, fans of tactical shooters have been crying out for someone to make a quality, hardcore, tactical shooter. But in contrast to these requests, game publishers eschew realism and tactics in exchange for ease of use and “cinematic” flavor. This campaign aims to see if my theory that real tactical shooters aren’t dead, and that enough people want one to justify the cost of development.

I’ve been in the video game industry working on best in class shooters for ten years now – designing and leading teams creating Tom Clancy games and Halo Reach. Now I’ve struck out and formed a new company for indie game development, Serellan LLC.

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27. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 12:17 SXO
 
I'm in for $50. Even if we don't get cutting-edge graphics, I'll be happy with an improved Rogue Spear clone at this point. And who knows what this could lead to down the line if it's successful. Even Red Storm Entertainment and Bohemia Interactive had to start somewhere.  
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26. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 11:03 Beamer
 
Jerykk isn't saying this guy couldn't possibly develop an awesome R6-esque tactical shooter, he's saying the guy has never worked on anything like this and, in fact, worked on more or less the exact opposite.

He's asking for money now, with promises in return. All you can do is evaluate the legitimacy of those promises. I mean, I've never built a skyscraper on top of Mt. Everest, largely because no employer has ever allowed me, but if you all send me $15 now I'll do it!

Promises. Are they realistic?
Given that he's not even showing concept art or ideas at this stage, unlike many Kickstarter projects, and just saying "tactical shooter that people who pay enough will get to pick what happens!" sounds... unreliable.
 
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25. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 10:54 Prez
 
Well, the reality of the situation is that he needs to raise $200,000 in pledges in March for him to start the project, and he as of right now has a little over $5000, or about 2.5% of his goal, so the discussion may be moot. That isn't an impressive start; maybe many people share Jerykk's concerns over his lack of credentials. It's also possible there isn't as big of a demand for hardcore tactical shooters but I doubt that's it. Maybe as more people are made aware of the project...  
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24. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 08:25 Bhruic
 
Regardless of opportunities, the fact remains that he doesn't have much experience working on tactical shooters.

You don't really need experience working on tactical shooters to make a tactical shooter. It's not like there are technological challenges that are unique to that genre. If he's played tactical shooters, knows what makes a game a tactical shooter, and is aiming to make such a game, that will be sufficient.

Although I'd really like to know exactly what his definition of "tactical shooter" is.

It'll also be interesting to see what happens when someone who's donated $1000+ has their pet idea shot down. Under the right (or wrong) circumstances, I can see that being quite amusing.
 
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23. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 06:14 Dmitri_M
 
The GroundBranch guy's need to jump on the crowd funding bandwagon too.

Groundbranch was a real attempt at true PC tactical game, development seems to have stalled though.

Jerykk wrote on Mar 4, 2012, 05:18:
They very well could have been. Developers can quit and apply at other studios whenever they want. It happens all the time.
Well, sadly this is the real world. A lowly artist might be able to bounce around easily, but once you get older and attain a lead position (in other words, a decent salary that let's you actually live) then moving between companies becomes much harder. It becomes a career, you cannot easily choose exactly what you want to work on for a multitude of reasons.

He says he started modding PC R6, and that he got a job at Red Storm during their peak years. Irrelevant what he managed to work on, fact is got he got a salary in the games industry and he claims to be a PC gamer at heart.

"But I miss the days of Rogue Spear and SWAT 4, silently creeping down the hallway, knowing that if I don’t slice the pie correctly on this doorway, I might catch a bullet in the head. Hell, even if I do everything right, I still might take a bullet in the head."

Sounds like the same reasons I obsessively placed tactical shooters. I think the guy is legit.

Teddy wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 16:18:
Shineyguy wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 15:14:
For years, fans of tactical shooters have been crying out for someone to make a quality, hardcore, tactical shooter.

So what the hell is Arma then?

Not as well received as people who play it would like to think?

Largely inaccessible due to poor control/UI design?

Not a CQB infantry game like this one is intended to be?

ArmA's failing is it requires a VAST amount of modding to get it to a point where it becomes something truly special and unique with features not available in any other tactical shooter to date.. The built in campaigns, maps and features are terrible and BIS themselves have made little effort to take the game into a meaningful creative direction.

If you view R6 as a CQB shooter, Ghost Recon as a mid range shooter, then ArmA is the long range\size over detail shooter.

Of those three titles it is the least accessible though. Requires a lot of patience and the right level of mods to really enjoy. You can tailor it to be any sort of shooter you like. Most gamers can't invest the time in it.

On a base level though you'd still have to cope with the non-ID engine inherited control school with the characters head acting as a camera, rather than the player's view being tied directly to the weapon as it is in ID engines\conventional tac shooters. Personally it's never bothered me, but then I'm not a little bitch like many gamers. Even back when tactical shooters ruled the market, we'd have many hardcore PC guys LAN with us and complain about dying too easily in Swat, or the movement being too slow in R6 (compared to Quake) or the controls being clunky in OFP\Arma. Today's shitty consolised versions of R6 and Ghost Recon. That's what gamers really want. Enjoy guys.

This comment was edited on Mar 4, 2012, 07:12.
 
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22. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 05:18 Jerykk
 
Well that's a bit of a ridiculous statement. You say it as if they were options that he turned down.

They very well could have been. Developers can quit and apply at other studios whenever they want. It happens all the time.

Regardless of opportunities, the fact remains that he doesn't have much experience working on tactical shooters.
 
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21. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 04:25 Shadowcat
 
Here's a list of games he could have worked on but didn't
Well that's a bit of a ridiculous statement. You say it as if they were options that he turned down.

Hmm... I'm tempted to fire up Ghost Recon now
 
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20. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 4, 2012, 00:14 eunichron
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 23:39:
True, but the fact remains that when it comes to tactical shooters, he's only professionally worked on an expansion pack (the console version, no less) for one game. Here's a list of games he could have worked on but didn't:

R6
R6: Rogue Spear
R6: Raven Shield
R6: Athena Sword
Ghost Recon
Ghost Recon: Desert Siege
SWAT 3
SWAT 4
SWAT 4: The Stetchkov Syndicate
Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis
Operation Flashpoint: Resistance
Operation Flashpoint: Red Hammer
ArmA
ArmA: Queen's Gambit
ArmA 2
ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead

If he had worked on at least 4 of those games, people would be more confident in his ability to create a good tactical shooter.

Yeah, I looked up his portfolio and saw GR: Island Thunder and got a little excited, then I saw it was the console port and my hope dwindled again.

It would be great to see a return to the old style GR/R6 games. ArmA is "ok," but their engine is shit (although it does look good), and the interface is terrible and convoluted.
 
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19. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 23:39 Jerykk
 
True, but the fact remains that when it comes to tactical shooters, he's only professionally worked on an expansion pack (the console version, no less) for one game. Here's a list of games he could have worked on but didn't:

R6
R6: Rogue Spear
R6: Raven Shield
R6: Athena Sword
Ghost Recon
Ghost Recon: Desert Siege
SWAT 3
SWAT 4
SWAT 4: The Stetchkov Syndicate
Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis
Operation Flashpoint: Resistance
Operation Flashpoint: Red Hammer
ArmA
ArmA: Queen's Gambit
ArmA 2
ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead

If he had worked on at least 4 of those games, people would be more confident in his ability to create a good tactical shooter.
 
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18. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 21:46 Blackhawk
 
What you worked on has more to do with the opportunities you were presented with than with your abilities or knowledge. How many games like he's describing actually exist? The R6 series, part of the SWAT series, ARMA, OpFlash: CWC - possibly the original Ghost Recon - what else?

There haven't been that many opportunities to get this type of game on your resume.
 
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17. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 20:41 Jerykk
 
NamecaF wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 20:36:
Jerykk wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 19:54:
This guy doesn't exactly have the resume to instill confidence. He only worked on one real tactical shooter, which was an expansion pack. Also, I'm not sure how well shooters will work based on crowdsourcing alone. Shooters require higher production values than other genres and even $1 million (which he isn't very likely to get) isn't enough.

From his interview on Ghostrecon.net...

Before games, my background was in the military. I served four years as an Active Duty MP in the US Marines, and then another 5 ½ in the Air and Army National Guard.

I started my games career modding Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear in ‘99, and after a few years joined Red Storm Entertainment.

I also do consulting for game companies and Hollywood on games and firearms.

...I'd say it's better than most.

Sadly, being a soldier doesn't make you a good game designer. If he had worked on the pre-Vegas/Lockdown R6 games, the original Ghost Recon or the later SWAT games, I'd be more convinced.
 
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16. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 20:36 NamecaF
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 19:54:
This guy doesn't exactly have the resume to instill confidence. He only worked on one real tactical shooter, which was an expansion pack. Also, I'm not sure how well shooters will work based on crowdsourcing alone. Shooters require higher production values than other genres and even $1 million (which he isn't very likely to get) isn't enough.

From his interview on Ghostrecon.net...

Before games, my background was in the military. I served four years as an Active Duty MP in the US Marines, and then another 5 ½ in the Air and Army National Guard.

I started my games career modding Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear in ‘99, and after a few years joined Red Storm Entertainment.

I also do consulting for game companies and Hollywood on games and firearms.

...I'd say it's better than most.
 
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15. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 20:11 Prez
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 19:54:
This guy doesn't exactly have the resume to instill confidence. He only worked on one real tactical shooter, which was an expansion pack. Also, I'm not sure how well shooters will work based on crowdsourcing alone. Shooters require higher production values than other genres and even $1 million (which he isn't very likely to get) isn't enough.

According to the website $15 gets you the game when (if) it's released, so I expect you're going to have to reel in your expectations to be commensurate with a budget shooter. Admittedly his target of $200,000 seems like a pittance when considering what it normally costs to develop a FPS, but I share his vision enough to part with some dough in the hope this can work.
 
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14. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 19:54 Jerykk
 
This guy doesn't exactly have the resume to instill confidence. He only worked on one real tactical shooter, which was an expansion pack. Also, I'm not sure how well shooters will work based on crowdsourcing alone. Shooters require higher production values than other genres and even $1 million (which he isn't very likely to get) isn't enough.  
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13. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 18:55 Beamer
 
Games Credited
•Halo: Reach (2010), Microsoft Game Studios
•F.E.A.R. 2: Reborn (2009), Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Inc.
•Halo 3: ODST (2009), Microsoft Game Studios
•Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter (2006), Ubisoft Entertainment SA
•Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Jungle Storm (2004), Ubisoft Entertainment SA



Add this to just a video of him talking available right now to "crowdsourced" with the need to pay certain amounts in order to vote on certain features and there's no chance he's getting my cash.
 
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12. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 16:44 Prez
 
Drezden wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 16:28:
I want another game like SWAT4 was.

Same here.
 
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11. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 16:28 Trevellian
 
I want another game like SWAT4 was.  
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10. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 16:23 jdreyer
 
Raven Shield is one of my all time favorite games. I'm in.  
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9. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 16:18 Teddy
 
Shineyguy wrote on Mar 3, 2012, 15:14:
For years, fans of tactical shooters have been crying out for someone to make a quality, hardcore, tactical shooter.

So what the hell is Arma then?

Not as well received as people who play it would like to think?

Largely inaccessible due to poor control/UI design?

Not a CQB infantry game like this one is intended to be?
 
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8. Re: Hardcore Tactical Shooter Kickstart Mar 3, 2012, 15:14 Shineyguy
 
For years, fans of tactical shooters have been crying out for someone to make a quality, hardcore, tactical shooter.

So what the hell is Arma then?
 
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