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Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM

This document is Blizzard's "notice of opposition" to Valve's efforts to trademark "DOTA," to which Blizzard has long objected. This federal lawsuit follows indications that Blizzard is planning a retail release for their own DOTA game, which at one point was thought to be a StarCraft II modification. Blizzard filing lists the following reason for opposition: "Priority and likelihood of confusion."

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40. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 11, 2012, 00:02 The KillSmith
 
Yifes wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 14:25:
It's a nice rant, but you missed the part about how Icefrog didn't create DotA and has no right to sell it to Valve

I didn't miss anything.

A) He didn't "sell" it to Valve because it wasn't something he could sell. No one had claimed rights to the name yet. This wasn't some established IP with rights.

B) Eul, the original creator, also works at Valve. I only referenced Icefrog (who in the end has done more for DotA than anyone) because he was the one who originally went to Blizzard and was turned down, and then was mainly responsible for the decision to move development to Valve and the Source engine. In context, he was the fulcrum of the opportunity Blizzard lost, which was half the point of my post.

Always helps to read up before you post.
 
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39. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 19:54 Sepharo
 
Valve should've called it something else but Blizzard suing over it is laughable. Also what took them so long?  
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38. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 19:17 jacobvandy
 
LightAssassin wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 17:41:
Prez wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:53:
The only person who morally (I've long since ceased to give a shit about the legal aspect of copyright) owns the rights to the DotA name is the mod maker, and he is nowhere to be found in this mess. Given that, as far as I am concerned all of the corporate tards and their sleazeball lawyers on both sides can die in a fire. Screaming. With bloody diarhea.

That would be "Eul" who now works for valve... Though he got his idea off a SC craft mod, but he was the first to use the Dota name.

That should really be the end of it right there. With both the original creator and the guy who popularized it (IceFrog) working at Valve, Blizzard's grasp on the term is tenuous at best. DOTA has taken on a meaning beyond the acronym, so it shouldn't matter at all that it refers to WC3 characters, and the genre it created has spread so far beyond any of Blizzard's properties over the years that most players of MOBA games probably have no clue of the origin. IMO, this is just Blizzard being upset that they didn't think to make DOTA 2 first, what with all their drawn-out milking of three established franchises.

It would have been so easy for Blizzard to trademark it years ago (according to their arguments, they've acted as if they owned it all this time), but now that they have competition with potential establishment of claim, they might be SOL.
 
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37. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 17:41 RenownWolf
 
Prez wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:53:
The only person who morally (I've long since ceased to give a shit about the legal aspect of copyright) owns the rights to the DotA name is the mod maker, and he is nowhere to be found in this mess. Given that, as far as I am concerned all of the corporate tards and their sleazeball lawyers on both sides can die in a fire. Screaming. With bloody diarhea.

That would be "Eul" who now works for valve... Though he got his idea off a SC craft mod, but he was the first to use the Dota name.
 
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36. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 16:42 theyarecomingforyou
 
It's worth pointing out that it appears as "Dota 2" in Steam, so they could argue it's simply a word. Or, as suggested, that the acronym is different - but that seems like a less sound legal argument, especially given the similarities in gameplay.  
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35. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 16:23 ViRGE
 
Yifes wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:11:
ViRGE wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:03:
No more than AutoDesk owns Transformers because 3dsMax was used to assemble the models. Being the toolmaker confers no ownership of the finished product (unless there's a contract stating otherwise, i.e. the free version of Unreal Engine 3).

Blizzard certainly has no standing to own the DotA trademark. The only party that has any standing is Valve, and even then it's not immediately clear that they should get it.

I'd assume that it'd depend on the Warcraft 3 map editor EULA?
FWIW I haven't seen anything in their EULA that would give Blizzard ownership.
 
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34. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 16:20 ^Drag0n^
 
I guess the, um, "alternate" meaning of the DotA acronym is holding up as well

^D^
 
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"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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33. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 15:56 Paketep
 
Slashman wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 15:42:
Did Left4Dead start as a mod too? I thought that was an original IP by Valve.

No, it was a game that was being developed by Turtle Rock using the source engine. Valve liked what they saw, and bought both the game and the studio.
 
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32. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 15:55 Paketep
 
Who cares for which game was the original mod released?. If anyone has any right to this trademark, is the original creator of DotA (not frogboy, and not Valve, and certainly not Blizzard).

Also, as an ex-fan of Blizzard, FUCK BLIZZARD. They can shove their "we are doing this for our legions of fans" up their us. If there is any room between the $100 bills, that is.
 
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31. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 15:42 Slashman
 
Did Left4Dead start as a mod too? I thought that was an original IP by Valve.  
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30. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 14:47 TheEmissary
 
InBlack wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 10:57:
I know of at least one example of a Valve game that started out as a mod on a game IP that wasnt owned by them. Team Fortress.

BLizzard is making DOTA? Well thats news to me, I stand corrected then. How long has it been in development compared to Valve's version?

You already mentioned Team Fortress (Quake), but you ignored Alien Swarm (UT2K4). Alien Swarm is probably closer to what is going on with Dota as Valve hired the mod team and then released the game. Portal started life as Narbacular drop a school project game.
 
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29. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 14:25 Yifes
 
The KillSmith wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 13:07:
Valve isn't pulling the dick move, Blizzard is. Blizzard is just butthurt they didn't jump at the opportunity to utilize their community by bringing certain mod members on board WHEN THEY WERE APPROACH BY THOSE MEMBERS! Yes, in case some of you were not aware, Blizzard originally turned down helping certain key DotA mod members. Icefrog went to Valve and they were behind him. This has happened before with other mod teams that start on one engine, and then go commercial with their own intellectual property on another. In this case, rather than just the engine, they also used Valve's development team support by simply becoming members of Valve. If I had my own idea for a game and was able to flush that out as a mod, when I want to go commercial I should be able to take my ideas and name with me anywhere I want. Law protects this right so that other people can't steal what's mine, and now Blizzard is trying to say law gives them the right to do that. What a bunch of pompous pricks.

It's a nice rant, but you missed the part about how Icefrog didn't create DotA and has no right to sell it to Valve
 
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28. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 13:07 The KillSmith
 
Valve isn't pulling the dick move, Blizzard is. Blizzard is just butthurt they didn't jump at the opportunity to utilize their community by bringing certain mod members on board WHEN THEY WERE APPROACH BY THOSE MEMBERS! Yes, in case some of you were not aware, Blizzard originally turned down helping certain key DotA mod members. Icefrog went to Valve and they were behind him. This has happened before with other mod teams that start on one engine, and then go commercial with their own intellectual property on another. In this case, rather than just the engine, they also used Valve's development team support by simply becoming members of Valve. If I had my own idea for a game and was able to flush that out as a mod, when I want to go commercial I should be able to take my ideas and name with me anywhere I want. Law protects this right so that other people can't steal what's mine, and now Blizzard is trying to say law gives them the right to do that. What a bunch of pompous pricks.

Tough crap Blizzard. You missed your chance. That's what happens when you get too big and start merging with Publishers. Now they're just money grubbers. What a bunch of sellouts.
 
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27. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 12:19 theyarecomingforyou
 
Valve should have used an entirely new trademark. There was no need to call their game DOTA 2, nor is it even logical considering that DOTA never existed as a commercial property. That said, they hired one of the people behind the original title and have a long history of supporting mod developers - it seems that Blizzard is simply upset because they didn't act quicker to capitalise on it, as they showed absolutely no interest in doing anything until Valve got involved. DOTA 2 was announced months before Blizzard's cheesy and low-budget Starcraft II DOTA mod was shown at Blizzcon.

Anyway, DOTA 2 is a blast but not being familiar with the gametype I really don't have a clue how to properly play it. Regardless, the performance is excellent; netcode is excellent; the UI is excellent; the voice work is great.
 
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26. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 12:17 Prez
 
This will just be a huge waste of everyone's time and lead to nothing but lawyers with even larger boats.

"The more I think about it, ole Willie was right. Kill all the lawyers. Kill 'em tonight."


- Don Henley
 
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Goodbye my Monte boy. May you rest in the peace you never knew in life.
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25. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 11:57 Snabel
 
Theo wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:24:
But honestly when was the last time Valve released some IP they created, answer, HL2.

I'm not sure I see how it matters.

How does it impact the quality of the game or the entertainment you get from it whether valve found a small company with a great idea and a fun little game, bought them and made a big franchise out of it with games a lot of people love?

Would it somehow increase the quality of the games as they were if valve sat in a black room and invented these game-worlds and concepts on their own? I'd don't really see how it matters. Valve makes games that I love to play, how that happens isn't really important.

Having said that though, I'm not sure who's in the right here. It might very well be that Valve is at fault. However, Blizzard have shown themselves to be massive dicks in a lot of other cases over the years, so I'm sure there's plenty of blame that can be assigned to them as well.

This will just be a huge waste of everyones time and lead to nothing but lawyers with even larger boats.
 
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24. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 11:53 Prez
 
The only person who morally (I've long since ceased to give a shit about the legal aspect of copyright) owns the rights to the DotA name is the mod maker, and he is nowhere to be found in this mess. Given that, as far as I am concerned all of the corporate tards and their sleazeball lawyers on both sides can die in a fire. Screaming. With bloody diarhea.
 
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Goodbye my Monte boy. May you rest in the peace you never knew in life.
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23. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 11:51 Snabel
 
Yifes wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:11:
ViRGE wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:03:
No more than AutoDesk owns Transformers because 3dsMax was used to assemble the models. Being the toolmaker confers no ownership of the finished product (unless there's a contract stating otherwise, i.e. the free version of Unreal Engine 3).

Blizzard certainly has no standing to own the DotA trademark. The only party that has any standing is Valve, and even then it's not immediately clear that they should get it.

I'd assume that it'd depend on the Warcraft 3 map editor EULA?

From what I've seen, whenever it has gone to court in the US and the parties haven't settled out of court, the EULA has been invalid.
Since you can't accept the EULA until you've actually taken a copy of the game home with you, the contract isn't binding. At least these days it's technically possible for you to read the EULA before purchasing a game online, but it's still higly questionable whether you can be considered to have read 100 pages of legalese and understood the consequences. Companies still use the EULAs, better safe than sorry I suppose, but it remains to be seen whether they're actually worth the e-ink they're written on.

Hmm, although I suppose the map editor could be a separate issue..
God, it'll just be a mess.
 
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22. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 11:34 Jonny
 
ViRGE wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 11:03:
Red wrote on Feb 10, 2012, 10:25:
The person who created dota did so in blizzard's engine. It's certainly blizzard's more than valve's.
No more than AutoDesk owns Transformers because 3dsMax was used to assemble the models. Being the toolmaker confers no ownership of the finished product (unless there's a contract stating otherwise, i.e. the free version of Unreal Engine 3).

Blizzard certainly has no standing to own the DotA trademark. The only party that has any standing is Valve, and even then it's not immediately clear that they should get it.

As far as I know game modding works differently, if the EULA for the map editor in WC3 was anything like Bethesda's Construction Set, then absolutely everything made with it technically belongs to Blizzard.

I never worked with the WC3 mapmaker, but when I modded Morrowind it was well known that Bethesda could, if it wanted, assert ownership over everything you released via the TESCS that wasn't covered by a pre-existing license.
 
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21. Re: Blizzard Sues Over DOTA TM Feb 10, 2012, 11:24 Theo
 
The most annoying thing is that riot games were classy enough to leave the name alone they have a much longer history of theoretical "ownership" than Icefrog does. Then LoL was born without the "help" of a DOTA name and became the largest multiplayer game in the world right now. (11+ million peeps active right now, (not total) account uniquie IDs active in the last x days).

I said it back in the begining, Valve are pulling a DICK MOVE here and are cashing in on something they didnt contribute to in anyway for there own profits, personally i hope blizzard taken them to the cleaners and the name DOTA stays in the mod community.

But honestly when was the last time Valve released some IP they created, answer, HL2.

 
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Everyone on Bluesnews is synical, get over it.
edit: i cant spell, this is my disclaimer.
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60 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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