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Evening Mobilization

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12 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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12. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 20:04 Dades
 
That was incredibly well thought out, thanks for writing it.  
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11. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 18:41 cappy
 
Bhruic wrote on Feb 9, 2012, 04:25:
There is no such thing as a responsible Apple consumer

By that logic, you might as well say there's no such thing as a responsible electronics user. FoxConn does business (directly or indirectly) with almost the entire computer market. If you own a computer (or cellphone, or tablet, etc), chances are that you have FoxConn components in it.

So anyone who owns any of the above list of items, and is feeling smugly superior about Apple consumers supporting "slave labor", well, you're supporting it yourself.

And unless people want to pay $1000+ for their next Xbox or cellphone, it's very likely that people will continue supporting it, regardless of how their sensibilities are outraged.

Apple and FoxConn are each other's biggest dependents. Cutter explained below the simple logic of why Apple is being "unfairly singled out." This is done all the time. If you're seeking to change, you start with the high-profile ones and the little guys will often follow and fall in line. So you get a ripple effect. You are also piggybacking off the visibility that the high-profile one has.

This is very fundamental and is pretty much how any campaign has been done since humans first began to interact with one another.

It makes about zero sense to pressure 1,000 smaller companies most consumers have never heard of and whose total value is a flea on the hide of Apple. They don't have Apple's leverage, nor its profit margins.

Why do you think Wal-Mart gets singled out for "dead peasant" insurance policies, or gender discrimination, or wages and benefits? Surely Wal-Mart isn't the *only* company in all of America to engage in such things. Of course not - but Wal-Mart is one heckuva big and visible company.

Why is Amazon singled out for working conditions in its warehouses? Surely every single retailer that has warehouses has less than desirable working conditions in those warehouses. But Amazon is very big and very visible.

This is just very fundamental stuff. And it's why Apple is being "singled out."

As far as cellphones costing $1,000... Apple seems to generate some incredible profit margins while selling its iPhones for far less already. And even when cellphones were made in developed countries they were not regularly going for $1,000 - unless you're talking the very first 1980s devices. Granted, phones have often been sold at a discount that's been made up by a contract.

No one is expecting China to *overnight* start paying U.S.-size wages and benefits to employees. So you can ease your mind that's not going to happen in a decade, and probably not two decades. So the $1,000 cellphone fear can be laid to rest.

But incremental gains could be coerced. And frankly, I see a lot of benefit to that all around. If China were to start seeing an actual rising middle class (versus its current system of a small percentage of haves and a huge percentage of have-littles) its government might ease up just a bit. That's certainly one of the reasons why the government probably likes the current system - rewarding a few while the majority have little power. Rising wages and costs in China would also slow the transfer of some production to China, and in some cases even shift a little back to the States (there have been some incidences of this recently where the balance of costs favored domestic production).

No one is arguing totality here. It's about fundamental strategic approaches that have happened across numerous arenas for thousands of years and that achieve ripple effects. It isn't a light switch or a binary solution.
 
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10. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 10:22 Steele Johnson
 
Exactly. And you know it's only because it's Apple; one of the most successful US based companies.

Look at any other company's manufacturing process in China and it's exactly the same, if not worse. And it has been that way for YEARS!
 
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9. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 07:07 eRe4s3r
 
Maybe I should have just said "There is no such thing as a responsible consumer" But that'd have been off-topic in a sense My point was you either suck it up and are a consumer, which makes you automatically support slave labor in 3rd world country X and at least have the decency to admit to that fact.

Or don't admit to that, but then don't protest a companies business practice after having bought their product. Thats retarded, and makes you automatically a hypocrite ^^

I just said i don't support Apple, for reasons beyond this topic, but i also have no doubt that i supported torturous work conditions thousands of times already, my point was, complain about it but if you do, don't single out Apple or call yourself "responsible consumer" that alone in this day and age is a misnomer, there can't be responsible consumption in capitalism and perpetual growth economics

And now you know why I mentioned that it might have been off topic
 
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8. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 04:25 Bhruic
 
There is no such thing as a responsible Apple consumer

By that logic, you might as well say there's no such thing as a responsible electronics user. FoxConn does business (directly or indirectly) with almost the entire computer market. If you own a computer (or cellphone, or tablet, etc), chances are that you have FoxConn components in it.

So anyone who owns any of the above list of items, and is feeling smugly superior about Apple consumers supporting "slave labor", well, you're supporting it yourself.

And unless people want to pay $1000+ for their next Xbox or cellphone, it's very likely that people will continue supporting it, regardless of how their sensibilities are outraged.
 
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7. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 02:18 space captain
 
Dagnamit wrote on Feb 8, 2012, 23:14:
as if exploiting emerging labor markets is something that hasn't been happening for thousands of years.

genocide, slavery, torture - also been happening for thousands of years

and thats what makes it ok!
 
Go forth, and kill!
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6. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 01:18 Cutter
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Feb 9, 2012, 00:41:
Tip: ALL of your cheap goods come from low paid, and, likely, exploited labor. So what is better? Not buying it and denying these people a job to support their families?

This is veiled politics, plain simple...an easy way to throw criticism at China in a way that makes you look like an asshole if you protest against it.^D^

By not buying things from places that you actually don't need. Particularly every year or every other year. There are a ton of little things everyone can do that actually do make a difference. Half-assedly protesting out front of an Apple store with your Apple device sipping your Starbucks frappucino isn't one of them.

No Apple isn't the only company doing this but they want to be in the spotlight so they get the bullseye...for now. And if you can get them to cave, then other companies start falling like dominoes. And from those small steps you go from tht to bringing the work back here where it belongs. Not buying from overseas isn't our problem if it causes them unemployement of not, we have our shit to deal with here, of which we are currently failing miserably.
 
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"Nobody wants to be nobody in America. Ed is the apotheosis of a prevailing American syndrome. It used to be that someone became famous because they were special. Now people are considered special just for being famous. Fame, itself, is its own virtue.
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5. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 00:41 ^Drag0n^
 
Tip: ALL of your cheap goods come from low paid, and, likely, exploited labor. So what is better? Not buying it and denying these people a job to support their families?

This is veiled politics, plain simple...an easy way to throw criticism at China in a way that makes you look like an asshole if you protest against it.

^D^
 
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"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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4. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 9, 2012, 00:27 eRe4s3r
 
I don't support Apple's practices and have nothing made by Apple .. but what pisses me off more than slave labor is people who complain about it while owning an iPad or iPhone.

The sad reality is, iPads are not something you need. Where i can understand people buying cheap clothes because.. well lets face it, you do need clothes (unless its summer ,p) and cheap food because you do need to eat even with little money. You do not ever need an iPad.

That makes people like Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman and his kindred spirits the worst humans on earth. Not only do they claim to not support it, but they call themselves responsible consumers

There is no such thing as a responsible Apple consumer
 
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3. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 8, 2012, 23:14 Dagnamit
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 8, 2012, 20:43:
"I use an iPhone myself, said Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman, executive director of SumOfUs in a press release sent to Business Insider. I love it, but I don't love having to support sweatshops, and neither do millions of other Apple consumers.The hip, educated market that Apple aspires to corner is largely composed of responsible consumers who dont want to be complicit in sweatshop labor.

So you don't love it but you support that company anyway? Fucking hipster douchebags and their lip service. 'Oh sure I cre about the environment and human rights...so long as it doesn't impact me at all.' Why don't these assholes protest to have Apple bring its work back to NA? Fucking douchebags!

I love the recent outrage about Apple, as if exploiting emerging labor markets is something that hasn't been happening for thousands of years. I AM OUTRAGED RIGHT NOW, but not before.
 
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2. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 8, 2012, 22:00 cappy
 
"I use an iPhone myself, said Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman, executive director of SumOfUs in a press release sent to Business Insider. I love it, but I don't love having to support sweatshops, and neither do millions of other Apple consumers.The hip, educated market that Apple aspires to corner is largely composed of responsible consumers who dont want to be complicit in sweatshop labor.

And as any good "hip and educated" person would do, largely symbolic gestures are the best approach to assuage the conscience while feeling that they're "doing something." Because actually boycotting the hip products would deprive her and others, and no one wants that to happen. So now they can continue to buy each iteration of the iPhone with the knowledge they tried to change the system, but the system was just too much. Bravo (the sound of one hand clapping).

How about organizing a march against Phillip Morris and its role in nicotine addiction and various health issues. They can smoke Marlboros while they're picketing. And play games on their various iDevices to pass the tedium.
 
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1. Re: Evening Mobilization Feb 8, 2012, 20:43 Cutter
 
"I use an iPhone myself, said Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman, executive director of SumOfUs in a press release sent to Business Insider. I love it, but I don't love having to support sweatshops, and neither do millions of other Apple consumers.The hip, educated market that Apple aspires to corner is largely composed of responsible consumers who dont want to be complicit in sweatshop labor.

So you don't love it but you support that company anyway? Fucking hipster douchebags and their lip service. 'Oh sure I cre about the environment and human rights...so long as it doesn't impact me at all.' Why don't these assholes protest to have Apple bring its work back to NA? Fucking douchebags!
 
Avatar 25394
 

"Nobody wants to be nobody in America. Ed is the apotheosis of a prevailing American syndrome. It used to be that someone became famous because they were special. Now people are considered special just for being famous. Fame, itself, is its own virtue.
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