But publishers tend to not want to enable that themselves. It's one thing to make people work for it, it's another to just hand it to them and say "hey, pay if you'd like, whatever, it's all good."

Hey, real quick, what other industries let us try something at no risk, particularly when they actually bear an enormous amount of risk?

Bhruic wrote on Feb 1, 2012, 08:09:

I kind of dig the idea of a limited time Steam return, or even better, a limited time trial, but it couldn't really work: people would be very quick to find a way to use offline mode to get the full game for free.

So what? You're acting as if there weren't already a really easy and convenient way for people to get the full game for free.

I kind of dig the idea of a limited time Steam return, or even better, a limited time trial, but it couldn't really work: people would be very quick to find a way to use offline mode to get the full game for free.

Tumbler wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 21:09:

Hey, real quick, what other industries let us try something at no risk, particularly when they actually bear an enormous amount of risk?

Movies? No.
Books? Well, Kindle does this, but Amazon has no risk.
Cars? Nope, you can test drive, and in some cases even take home for a night, but you also have to put up collateral.
Music? I suppose Spotify lets me listen to entire albums, but it's essentially what I advocated in Gaiku, no?
Restaurants? Hardly.

Um...well this industry for starters. PC software outside of games often has free trials you can download and try almost instantly. I downloaded Illustrator CS5 a few nights ago to use for a small project. Took me an hour, I only needed to provide an email. I was able to create content and save files and now I have what I needed and paid zero. (and they will likely get a sale from me later)

MS does this with MS Office. You can download all parts of that program. I can't remember the last time pc software didn't have a free trial unless it was a game.

Movie theaters will give you your money back if you walk out on a movie...

Books can be read at book stores...

Cars can be test driven for free and taken home (as you said) which is a great comparison to paying in full for a game and trying it for a few hours.

Music...last time I was in a book store they had a whole section setup to listen to music, entire albums...and on youtube you can listen to EVERYTHING.

And Restaurants? You're fucking with me right now right? Yeah, you've got to be. I mean if someone is served food they don't like, like there is a hair in it, everyone knows enough to complain right?

I mean you don't live under a rock...right?

Hey, real quick, what other industries let us try something at no risk, particularly when they actually bear an enormous amount of risk?

Movies? No.
Books? Well, Kindle does this, but Amazon has no risk.
Cars? Nope, you can test drive, and in some cases even take home for a night, but you also have to put up collateral.
Music? I suppose Spotify lets me listen to entire albums, but it's essentially what I advocated in Gaiku, no?
Restaurants? Hardly.

Ruffiana wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 19:00:

Veterator wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 16:15:
I still wonder what kind of money the major DRM scheme out there cost on a per title basis.

I am not willing to drop 40+ dollars on games anymore. Just because the chance of said game, even if it's a sequel to something I liked, sucking or being bug ridden, etc is just too high.

And I still avoid the stupidly DRM-heavy titles even after it's 5 bucks, because I just don't want to deal with the bullshit.

So piracy may be a factor, but just flat out overpricing, under delivering, nickel and dime tactics, and outrageous DRM "hoops"....they have all definitely factored into my purchasing decisions.

All of those are legimate reasons to not buy a game. There is no legitimate reason to pirate a game because games are purely products for luxury and entertainment...it's all just rationalizations for entitlement and self-gratification.

Ruffiana wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 18:01:

Quboid wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 15:04:

Ruffiana wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 14:56:
Show me the developer on the verge of shutting down with a highly-pirated game talking about how positive that's been for them.

If piracy is good for successful games and bad for unsuccessful ones, that would suggest that actually piracy doesn't matter a damn.

No, all it suggests is that games can sometimes succeed in spite of piracy. It's pretty easy to be nonchalant and generous when you've already made more money than expected, but when you're barely scraping by you took a longer, harder look at the number of copies you’ve sold versus the number of pirated copies that have been downloaded.

Beamer wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 17:12:
I kind of dig the idea of a limited time Steam return, or even better, a limited time trial

Beamer wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 17:12:
One of the big reasons you hear people defend their piracy is "I wanted to make sure it ran on my system" or "I wanted to make sure I liked it." They don't see a reason to wait until a sale.

I kind of dig the idea of a limited time Steam return, or even better, a limited time trial, but it couldn't really work: people would be very quick to find a way to use offline mode to get the full game for free. But when Gaiku becomes a more valid delivery method it will be perfect. Since it's all server-side they can be foolproof about only letting a user play 2 hours or whathaveyou. You still don't know how it runs on your system, but at least you have a solid feel for what's going on.

Ruffiana wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 18:01:
but when you're barely scraping by you took a longer, harder look at the number of copies you’ve sold versus the number of pirated copies that have been downloaded.

Tumbler wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 17:51:

but it couldn't really work: people would be very quick to find a way to use offline mode to get the full game for free.

So True. Better that piracy is the only way to try games with no risk. Paying customers don't deserve to be protected from bad purchases. If they weren't so lazy they'd go look into the future and see if they liked the game. Grumble grumble, you know what one of them told me? He said that wouldn't even be possible because if he went to the future then decided not to buy it in the past it's destroy the universe or some shit. Fucking pirates. They'll do anything to play my game for free.

Veterator wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 16:15:
I still wonder what kind of money the major DRM scheme out there cost on a per title basis.

I am not willing to drop 40+ dollars on games anymore. Just because the chance of said game, even if it's a sequel to something I liked, sucking or being bug ridden, etc is just too high.

And I still avoid the stupidly DRM-heavy titles even after it's 5 bucks, because I just don't want to deal with the bullshit.

So piracy may be a factor, but just flat out overpricing, under delivering, nickel and dime tactics, and outrageous DRM "hoops"....they have all definitely factored into my purchasing decisions.

DukeFNukem wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 16:44:
I guess you don't follow Steam news much. They have 48-hour weekend play-all-you-want events all the time. Wait for those and you have 48 hours to try out games you might want for free. No buyers remorse.

Quboid wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 15:04:

Ruffiana wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 14:56:
Show me the developer on the verge of shutting down with a highly-pirated game talking about how positive that's been for them.

If piracy is good for successful games and bad for unsuccessful ones, that would suggest that actually piracy doesn't matter a damn.

but it couldn't really work: people would be very quick to find a way to use offline mode to get the full game for free.

Verno wrote on Jan 31, 2012, 16:52:

The same can't be said for many other games on more traditional platforms. Steam would be wise to institute a return policy within a certain amount of time. Like 2 hours of gameplay or 24 hours after purchase, whichever comes first. The biggest deterrent I have to spending money on many games is buyers remorse. You give me an optional refund if I don't like you're game and I'm WAY more likely to try it

Steam is one of the best platforms for sales so if you can't deal with buyers remorse then buy it when its cheap. There are few options for digital returns/trades right now because the publishers fight it tooth and nail, it's not really up to Steam. Smaller platforms use it as a gimmick but it's full of gotchas and rules.

The same can't be said for many other games on more traditional platforms. Steam would be wise to institute a return policy within a certain amount of time. Like 2 hours of gameplay or 24 hours after purchase, whichever comes first. The biggest deterrent I have to spending money on many games is buyers remorse. You give me an optional refund if I don't like you're game and I'm WAY more likely to try it

So piracy may be a factor, but just flat out overpricing, under delivering, nickel and dime tactics, and outrageous DRM "hoops"....they have all definitely factored into my purchasing decisions.