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Morning Consolidation

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30 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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30. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Feb 1, 2012, 08:24 Beamer
 
Nucas wrote on Feb 1, 2012, 02:14:
Prez wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 17:57:
Most everyone else here decries pirates. Me, I think used game buyers are far worse.
that's some strong rhetoric. not everyone has the financial capacity to adopt an all or nothing purchasing paradigm for their hobbies.
i only buy used games when necessary (older stuff) but that's because i've been lucky to be able to afford such extravagance. life sucks and sometimes people just want to forget for an hour or two. only the affluent need apply?

If you wait, then games are probably $20. Or $18 at GameStop.
I think you can afford that extra $2.
 
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29. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Feb 1, 2012, 02:14 Nucas
 
Prez wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 17:57:
Most everyone else here decries pirates. Me, I think used game buyers are far worse.
that's some strong rhetoric. not everyone has the financial capacity to adopt an all or nothing purchasing paradigm for their hobbies.
i only buy used games when necessary (older stuff) but that's because i've been lucky to be able to afford such extravagance. life sucks and sometimes people just want to forget for an hour or two. only the affluent need apply?
 
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28. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 31, 2012, 00:07 Kitkoan
 
Well how about another angle on the whole "buying used games" argument that I don't seem to ever seen mentioned in these articles and/or rants.

To start with, I buy new games and used games. Why do I buy used games though? Because its cheaper? No. Its because so many console games pretty much are forever gone from store shelves within a year. After that I have to go searching online and might not be able to buy it new any more. Then I have to go looking for a used copy. But with things like this, I'm being punished for buying it used. So I'm being punished for buying used because either a) I didn't have a (console of choice) at the time or b) wasn't into that type of game/series at the time. In this situation answer c) because it's cheaper wasn't even a part of the argument.

Always more then one angle to each argument.
 
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27. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 23:15 Veterator
 
Wait a year or two and get the game new for 5-10 bucks...once the studio has went out of business.

There's a disconnect in thinking there. They want maximum profits, people want the most they can get. Always has been this way. But by the publishers and studios FORCING people to either buy at inflated prices for the content or wait for prices to drop, they essentially put the developer out of business.

I think it's amusing to see Indies who bend over backwards to make people happy succeed, and published studios basically tell people to kiss their asses end up not existing a year or two later. Except in the second half of that sentence, the excuse is PIRACCCCYYYY tuk er juuuubbss.

 
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26. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 22:09 jdreyer
 
I think what mostly riles people in this situation is the fairness of it. Most used products acquire wear and tear through use, reducing their value. Digital products do not. So the publisher is artificially introducing "wear" in the product through one-time-use coupons. It's the intentional nature of it that upsets folks (GS aside).  
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25. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 19:50 Saboth
 
"Day 1 DLC", you know another name for that? "The Game".

Our capitalist system works off of supply and demand. I can't think of any other product where the supply is artificially limited through DRM simply to prevent used sales. I really don't think it should be legal, but I don't think it's been challenged yet.
 
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24. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 19:37 Agent.X7
 
Watter wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 16:36:
Beamer wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 14:53:
GameStop is really the only part of used game sales people care about. It's the only part that seems unfair; they rip everyone off. Everyone.
Really? I've never once been ripped off by Gamestop. Hell, I'm thankful they exist. No one, NO ONE, else is offering me a red cent for these used games doing nothing but cluttering up my shelves. Not one penny. But Gamestop does. I'm quite surprised sometimes by how much they do offer me for the games I bring in since, with so little competition, I'd probably accept far less.

Also, where else can I go and buy a console game (used but still "like" new) and then return it for full price if I play it for an hour and hate it? Hmmm?

The bitching and moaning about Gamestop is tedious. Gamestop is a fantastic example of a market at work. If there was more competition, then the prices they pay for used games would be higher, but don't blame Gamestop for that. There's no competition because the media companies are so close to their wet dream of us "leasing" instead of "owning" our games and no one wants to enter a market that may disappear at the drop of a hat.

Have you ever looked for 2 seconds for an independent game store? Often they buy for more and sell for less.

But, you sound like a Gamestop employee. I don't know too many customers who can play a new game for an hour and have the store let them return it.
 
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23. No subject Jan 30, 2012, 19:35 Agent.X7
 
They also know a huge group of people couldn't afford any car without buying a used car.
This isn't true of games.

That is not true. Maybe you don't know any poor people, but there are plenty of people who could not afford to buy their kids or themselves games if they weren't much cheaper.
 
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22. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 19:28 Dades
 
Pineapple Ferguson wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 17:38:
All this is irrelivant to me anyway, since it's likely require Origin, which means I'll never play it.

It's on Steam right now and doesn't require Origin.
 
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21. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 18:58 Ruffiana
 
Prez wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 17:57:
As much flak as I give devs and publishers for their stupid DRM schemes, I have to say I don't find anything wrong with cutting out content for used buyers. If you want everything there then buy a new copy. Don't want to pay full price? Wait for a sale - it's not like this game will be full price for very long.

Most everyone else here decries pirates. Me, I think used game buyers are far worse.

People can still buy used, and quite possibly save themselves some money by buying used and purchasing the retail DLC seperately.

Or not purchasing it at all and do without. Catwoman was a great bit of content for Arkham City, but the game would have been fine without it.
 
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20. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 18:56 Ruffiana
 
I've never understood making a distinction between DLC on the disc or downloaded. I actually prefer DLC on the disc as it saves me some bandwidth. A physical disc is just one method of distributing data to me.

As long as the game, sans DLC, is worth the purchase price...who cares? I'm not personally paying for development, just a product.
 
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19. Re: Gamestop is dying Jan 30, 2012, 18:09 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 17:27:
So, I think the days of GS are quite numbered, and so, too, is this silly Day-1 DLC model.

Whilst those days may be numbered they're still a very long way off. And if you have to pay the publisher $10 to access all content on a used disc then GS will have to modify its postition to cover that as that's what the market will demand. So nothing will change except the publisher getting a cut which is all they want anyway.
 
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18. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 17:57 Prez
 
As much flak as I give devs and publishers for their stupid DRM schemes, I have to say I don't find anything wrong with cutting out content for used buyers. If you want everything there then buy a new copy. Don't want to pay full price? Wait for a sale - it's not like this game will be full price for very long.

Most everyone else here decries pirates. Me, I think used game buyers are far worse.
 
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17. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 17:38 Pineapple Ferguson
 
All this is irrelivant to me anyway, since it's likely require Origin, which means I'll never play it.  
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16. Re: matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 17:32 Beamer
 
Watter wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 16:36:
Beamer wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 14:53:
GameStop is really the only part of used game sales people care about. It's the only part that seems unfair; they rip everyone off. Everyone.
Really? I've never once been ripped off by Gamestop. Hell, I'm thankful they exist. No one, NO ONE, else is offering me a red cent for these used games doing nothing but cluttering up my shelves. Not one penny. But Gamestop does. I'm quite surprised sometimes by how much they do offer me for the games I bring in since, with so little competition, I'd probably accept far less.

Also, where else can I go and buy a console game (used but still "like" new) and then return it for full price if I play it for an hour and hate it? Hmmm?

The bitching and moaning about Gamestop is tedious. Gamestop is a fantastic example of a market at work. If there was more competition, then the prices they pay for used games would be higher, but don't blame Gamestop for that. There's no competition because the media companies are so close to their wet dream of us "leasing" instead of "owning" our games and no one wants to enter a market that may disappear at the drop of a hat.

You'd accept far less? You'd get far more on ebay.

GameStop is a leech, nothing more.
 
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15. Gamestop is dying Jan 30, 2012, 17:27 jdreyer
 
With content moving toward digital, it's really just a matter of time before Gamestop goes the way of Blockbuster. Gamestop barely even sells PC games anymore. Once consoles adopt the Steam model, it's buh-bye Gamestop. Which is a bit of a shame, since having a store dedicated to gaming is good in concept.

This comment in the article by M1rthful (edited for length):

Sure, they may pay someone $20 for a new release title, and manage to sell it for $31.99 "profit."

Now here's where that profit goes:
- Rent/utilities on the storefront location. [Snip]
- Paying the staff. [Snip] In other words, that $31.99 "profit" barely paid to keep the store open for an hour and a half, maybe.

Now, not every game makes that kind of money. Many games come in and sit around. They start at the $45 price point if GS gave someone $20 for them. Then they drop to $40. Then $35. Then on down. Somewhere between $25 and $20, they turn into a loss for the store.

Ever seen the games sitting in the $5-10 bargain bin? Almost all of them were something GS paid at least $10 if not $15-20 for. [Snip]

One of my friends manages a store nearby to me. They had 5 out of 8 weeks right before christmas where their sales numbers were in the top 100 stores in the country listing. Gamestop regional management decided to shut the store down anyways - it's a "richer" neighborhood, so the rent is higher than normal. Even posting top-100 sales numbers didn't balance that out to make the store profitable.

So, I think the days of GS are quite numbered, and so, too, is this silly Day-1 DLC model.

 
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14. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 16:46 Verno
 
Really? I've never once been ripped off by Gamestop. Hell, I'm thankful they exist. No one, NO ONE, else is offering me a red cent for these used games doing nothing but cluttering up my shelves. Not one penny. But Gamestop does. I'm quite surprised sometimes by how much they do offer me for the games I bring in since, with so little competition, I'd probably accept far less.

Also, where else can I go and buy a console game (used but still "like" new) and then return it for full price if I play it for an hour and hate it? Hmmm?

The bitching and moaning about Gamestop is tedious. Gamestop is a fantastic example of a market at work. If there was more competition, then the prices they pay for used games would be higher, but don't blame Gamestop for that. There's no competition because the media companies are so close to their wet dream of us "leasing" instead of "owning" our games and no one wants to enter a market that may disappear at the drop of a hat.

I agree with some of what you said but just FYI there is competition now (Amazon, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Toys R Us and etc are all into used games these days) but not on every street corner like Gamestop is so they don't provide much pressure to get Gamestop to be more competitive with its prices. Still as you said something is better than nothing, particularly for a shitty game.

Gamestop has some very scummy employment practices but that's neither here nor there.
 
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13. matthew@welchkin.net Jan 30, 2012, 16:36 Watter
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 14:53:
GameStop is really the only part of used game sales people care about. It's the only part that seems unfair; they rip everyone off. Everyone.
Really? I've never once been ripped off by Gamestop. Hell, I'm thankful they exist. No one, NO ONE, else is offering me a red cent for these used games doing nothing but cluttering up my shelves. Not one penny. But Gamestop does. I'm quite surprised sometimes by how much they do offer me for the games I bring in since, with so little competition, I'd probably accept far less.

Also, where else can I go and buy a console game (used but still "like" new) and then return it for full price if I play it for an hour and hate it? Hmmm?

The bitching and moaning about Gamestop is tedious. Gamestop is a fantastic example of a market at work. If there was more competition, then the prices they pay for used games would be higher, but don't blame Gamestop for that. There's no competition because the media companies are so close to their wet dream of us "leasing" instead of "owning" our games and no one wants to enter a market that may disappear at the drop of a hat.
 
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12. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 14:53 Beamer
 
Bhruic wrote on Jan 30, 2012, 14:43:
Most of the time arguing about used sales turns into an argument about Gamestop. What I've never understood is why, if Gamestop is making such obscene profits from used sales, no one competes with them? If it's so profitable to do it at $5 off, why not set up your own chain at $10 off? That would still be huge profits, wouldn't it? Or $15 off, less profits, but you should get even more business.

It's not an easy market to enter. Plenty of areas, if not most, have small, one-off stores doing this. But uniting them? Growing? It's difficult and risky, especially as you need to carry an enormous amount of inventory. And no one wants to get into it now because we're moving rapidly towards either digital-only or games-as-a-service.

GameStop is really the only part of used game sales people care about. It's the only part that seems unfair; they rip everyone off. Everyone.

The plus side of all of this is that game prices fall much quicker. Someone called it a recession effect, but it's really a GameStop effect. An attempt to:
a) give more incentive to buy new, as the prices change rapidly
b) steal some of GameStop's margin. If they buy a ton of MW3 copies at $25 and the next day the retail price falls $10 then their margin falls $9 and that inventory is worth far less than they expected.
 
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11. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 30, 2012, 14:43 Bhruic
 
Most of the time arguing about used sales turns into an argument about Gamestop. What I've never understood is why, if Gamestop is making such obscene profits from used sales, no one competes with them? If it's so profitable to do it at $5 off, why not set up your own chain at $10 off? That would still be huge profits, wouldn't it? Or $15 off, less profits, but you should get even more business.  
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