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Morning Mobilization

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32 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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32. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 10:35 cappy
 
SectorEffector wrote on Jan 27, 2012, 04:45:
Bhruic wrote on Jan 27, 2012, 03:42:
The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

Considering how many other companies do business with FoxConn, I'm pretty sure all of us have computer components from them. Taking the smug high road probably isn't an option, unless you want to be a hypocrite.

this.

now just wait for the "I don't" comments while you we all have worn a shirt or shoes made by a Vietnamese child with his hands sewn together.

I swear sometimes bluesnews is like the PC male geek version of the view.

Well, for the record I'm not an idealist. In fact, I think all of the campaigns to "Put An End To..." ought to be changed to something more realistically obtainable. Like, "Minimize..."

As long as there are humans, there will definitely be wars, murders, child abuse, and any number of crimes and transgressions against one another.

Like most people, I accept that. And like most people, I don't like it. But again, I accept that it's a fact of the human condition.

Slaughterhouses in the U.S. used to be overwhelmingly awful as far as the abuses that took place. There are still abuses - you have organizations like PETA to highlight those. But you also have Temple Grandin who did what she could to remedy or at least mitigate some things. Plus regulations and oversight.

It's one of the reasons why I think extreme Libertarian beliefs that capitalism is self-regulating is a crock of crap. Historically, there has never been any evidence that capitalism self-regulates, let alone that the justice system alone can mitigate - again, using that word, rather than eliminate - a lot of problems. That, and the fact that unregulated capitalism has pretty much always led to monopolies - which when anyone thinks about it sort of goes against the entire benefit of capitalism - variety of products, innovation, competitive pressure.

So if there were no humans - a feat that would be difficult for humans alone to accomplish, even given some recent progress in engineering experimental superflu variants - the human-created problems and imperfections would truly be ended.

But since we have humans, we accept the imperfections. We'd just like to reduce them wherever possible - and idealists want to play Sisyphus and claim to try to end them.

Apple could place more pressure on its Chinese manufacturing facilities. Apple alone accounts for a whopping 40% of FoxConn's profits a whopping 40% of FoxConn's profits. It isn't like EVGA or Rosewill or even a bunch of such tiny specks of firms (compared to Apple) banding together.

I can see the small companies making excuses that they have no influence and have to compete because they're in a precarious position.

Apple can't so easily make those excuses. Sure - any big company can lose its position of prominence - look at Nokia's slide, Motorola, IBM (at one time until they re-directed), and so on. Of course, most companies in a pretty dominant position tend to lose their dominance not through competition but from complacence. And Apple has shown over the last decade or so that they are anything but complacent.

I'm quite certain the Chinese government is quite fine with status quo. I don't believe they want any kind of middle class and are quite satisfied with a modern-day feudal breakdown of a few who are doing quite well and the rest of them serfs bound to work the figurative land. The leaders aren't stupid - empower more people and you risk letting them vote in more than a symbolic fashion and losing your job (the Soviet Union used to have massive voter turnout back in the day - everyone was encouraged and basically required to vote - but the votes themselves were mostly meaningless). Still, I think if Apple took the lead and others followed, you'd see a lessening of some of the worst of the widespread abuse, and a side-benefit would be a gradual rise of China worker empowerment and a slight reduction in the government's power. I don't foresee a Japan effect (hardly anything is made in Japan anymore in the way that it once was before wages rose so much) because there are a lot of Chinese and the government doesn't want most of them to make much money. But anything's better than nothing. I think, anyway.
 
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31. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 09:44 cappy
 
Bhruic wrote on Jan 27, 2012, 03:42:
The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

Considering how many other companies do business with FoxConn, I'm pretty sure all of us have computer components from them. Taking the smug high road probably isn't an option, unless you want to be a hypocrite.

The difference being that Apple is currently the most valuable American company and along with its wealth it wields considerable power in China. But rather than make real - as opposed to mostly cursory - efforts to address the innumerable working condition exposes that have been repeatedly revealed the past few years, Apple has been quite comfortable with status quo.

From the recent in-depth NYTimes article

You get quotes like:

“We’ve known about labor abuses in some factories for four years, and they’re still going on,” said one former Apple executive who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of confidentiality agreements. “Why? Because the system works for us. Suppliers would change everything tomorrow if Apple told them they didn’t have another choice. If half of iPhones were malfunctioning, do you think Apple would let it go on for four years?” the executive asked.

"Apple says that when an audit reveals a violation, the company requires suppliers to address the problem within 90 days and make changes to prevent a recurrence. “If a supplier is unwilling to change, we terminate our relationship,” the company says on its Web site. Apple has found violations in hundreds of audits, but fewer than 15 suppliers have been terminated for transgressions since 2007, according to former Apple executives."

"Apple typically asks suppliers to specify how much every part costs, how many workers are needed and the size of their salaries. Executives want to know every financial detail. Afterward, Apple calculates how much it will pay for a part. Most suppliers are allowed only the slimmest of profits. So suppliers often try to cut corners, replace expensive chemicals with less costly alternatives, or push their employees to work faster and longer, according to people at those companies. “The only way you make money working for Apple is figuring out how to do things more efficiently or cheaper,” said an executive at one company that helped bring the iPad to market. “And then they’ll come back the next year, and force a 10 percent price cut.”

“You can either manufacture in comfortable, worker-friendly factories, or you can reinvent the product every year, and make it better and faster and cheaper, which requires factories that seem harsh by American standards,” said a current Apple executive. “And right now, customers care more about a new iPhone than working conditions in China.”

It's a very well-established precedent that when you want to change something, you have a poster-boy - a very prominent example of what ought to be changed. So when Teddy Roosevelt and Howard Taft set about trust-busting, for example, they weren't going after every single last monopoly - they were hitting the big names. Ditto for trotting out the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory for working conditions earlier in the last century. Or Exxon Valdez to bring attention to oil spills - when there were innumerable spills at the time.

You get a poster-boy for change - and you pick a big one - because that tends to sway the smaller ones, kind of like the way water droplets are sticky to one another.

Apple can't sit there, figuratively shrugging its shoulders, and saying that it can't do anything - because it's quite influential including in China. The company has chosen to do as little as possible as long as the icky stuff doesn't affect profits, and as long as it doesn't get enough of a corporate black eye for the same reason. Perhaps many or most Americans don't really care as long as this all occurs someplace they've never been and will never go - out of sight and out of mind and all that.

I suppose NYTimes could put pressure on EVGA or Rosewill or whoever. Except most Americans would say, "Who?" and then go on past the article. But pretty much everyone has heard of Apple. And so far EVGA and Rosewill, let alone even HP or Amazon - are not in the position that Apple is in.

Apple likes being in the position of a leader. They just don't particularly care to actually lead when it comes to certain things.
 
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30. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 09:18 wtf_man
 
HP and Dell use Foxconn too.

Unfortunately just about all consumer electronics come from some Asian based slave labor/ sweat shop.

That's also why China has become the new superpower... tons of population and tons of slave labor... no business can compete against that, which is why most businesses are shipping their labor jobs to Asia or some other poverty stricken populace.

Think about it... if you had an "ethical" company that made a device... and pay Americans or Europeans $10 an hour on the assembly line and then charge $1000 for the device with maybe a 20% profit margin... and your "unethical" competition... makes a similar device... uses slave labor and pays 50 cents an hour for the people on the assembly line, charges $500 for the device (undercutting you massively and being a more popular consumer choice due to price)... AND STILL has like a 80%-100% profit margin.

Guess who is going out of business?

It's not right. But it's just the reality of the situation.
 
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29. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 09:10 cappy
 
Creston wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 22:59:
cappy wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 21:15:
Creston wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 12:18:
Apple could release a new iPhone every week and the fanboys would just squeal with glee and kiss their posters of Steve Jobs some more.

It's also the reason why smartphone owners buy tablets. Well, it has an Apple logo on it! I MUST HAVE IT TO REMAIN HIP!

Creston

No, no, no, no

The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

They are working? I thought they were all killing themselves because of their miserable working and living conditions...

Creston

That would be the longer definition of "works"...
 
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28. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 09:04 Verno
 
PropheT wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 16:41:
I have a Droid X2. It's cool, I guess, I just don't think it's particularly useful. And you're absolutely right, I'm probably not the intended market for it because I don't find it to be useful. There are a multitude of apps out there, but I'm not sure I see the point of them other than as gadgets trying to find a way to make the phone useful; there isn't a single one that I've found that seems really necessary or that has had any impact on the way I use the phone.

Yeah this is the part I don't get. Most people use their phones, it has actual purpose in their routines. If you need to look for reasons to justify getting the phone you never needed (or likely wanted) one. I mean they aren't for everyone but why even waste the money if you aren't really the market for it? For people who travel, commute or are otherwise on the go (school, work, etc) these things are invaluable. Many people don't have the ability to stop and do all of that stuff using a stationary machine.

To be fair though I guess these days its actually difficult to get a non-smartphone in some markets although I see plenty of dumbphones still in the US.
 
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Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
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27. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 04:47 SectorEffector
 
Creston wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 22:59:
cappy wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 21:15:
Creston wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 12:18:
Apple could release a new iPhone every week and the fanboys would just squeal with glee and kiss their posters of Steve Jobs some more.

It's also the reason why smartphone owners buy tablets. Well, it has an Apple logo on it! I MUST HAVE IT TO REMAIN HIP!

Creston

No, no, no, no

The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

They are working? I thought they were all killing themselves because of their miserable working and living conditions...

Creston

You seem to neglect how many people in that region kill themselves over grades on tests / anything else that would normally seem extreme.
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q2iICtlIc
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26. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 04:45 SectorEffector
 
Bhruic wrote on Jan 27, 2012, 03:42:
The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

Considering how many other companies do business with FoxConn, I'm pretty sure all of us have computer components from them. Taking the smug high road probably isn't an option, unless you want to be a hypocrite.

this.

now just wait for the "I don't" comments while you we all have worn a shirt or shoes made by a Vietnamese child with his hands sewn together.

I swear sometimes bluesnews is like the PC male geek version of the view.
 
Avatar 55456
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q2iICtlIc
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25. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 03:42 Bhruic
 
The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

Considering how many other companies do business with FoxConn, I'm pretty sure all of us have computer components from them. Taking the smug high road probably isn't an option, unless you want to be a hypocrite.
 
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24. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 27, 2012, 03:33 SectorEffector
 
So much energy wasted  
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23. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 22:59 Creston
 
cappy wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 21:15:
Creston wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 12:18:
Apple could release a new iPhone every week and the fanboys would just squeal with glee and kiss their posters of Steve Jobs some more.

It's also the reason why smartphone owners buy tablets. Well, it has an Apple logo on it! I MUST HAVE IT TO REMAIN HIP!

Creston

No, no, no, no

The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."

They are working? I thought they were all killing themselves because of their miserable working and living conditions...

Creston
 
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22. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 21:39 Cutter
 
cappy wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 21:20:
Cutter wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 16:26:
If you hate America, humanity, and the environment, support Apple.

I suspect next time #2 "most valuable company" Exxon has an oil spill that pollutes the water and endangers lives and livelihoods, there will be people spreading the news on their iPhones about this disaster and decrying how corporatism and ruthless pursuit of profits cut corners on safety and concern for people and other living creatures or the environment.

Well said, sir.
 
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"Bye weeks? Bronko Nagurski didn't get no bye weeks, and now he's dead… Well, maybe they're a good thing." - Moe
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21. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 21:20 cappy
 
Cutter wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 16:26:
If you hate America, humanity, and the environment, support Apple.

I suspect next time #2 "most valuable company" Exxon has an oil spill that pollutes the water and endangers lives and livelihoods, there will be people spreading the news on their iPhones about this disaster and decrying how corporatism and ruthless pursuit of profits cut corners on safety and concern for people and other living creatures or the environment.
 
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20. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 21:15 cappy
 
Creston wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 12:18:
Apple could release a new iPhone every week and the fanboys would just squeal with glee and kiss their posters of Steve Jobs some more.

It's also the reason why smartphone owners buy tablets. Well, it has an Apple logo on it! I MUST HAVE IT TO REMAIN HIP!

Creston

No, no, no, no

The reason people buy Apple products is because it just works.

Of course, "it" being in this context "Chinese worker in a FoxConn factory."
 
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19. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 20:43 wtf_man
 
killer_roach wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 15:52:
I'm thinking the next iPhone will most likely be just a slightly faster-clocked 4S with LTE support. It'll be a pretty minor upgrade for most people (unless you have LTE in your area, in which case it'll be pretty nice).

We just got LTE in our area, this last September... and i've been looking to get off AT&T because Verizon gets better signal in most of the areas around here. There's actually a lot of places that AT&T practically has no signal and Verizon has full bars... so it's not really a company choice prejudice... it's who has better coverage in my area.

Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 16:20:
I've heard the biggest problem with LTE right now is all the current chipsets are huge battery hogs. I wonder how Apple will solve this.

According to several articles... the 28nm Qualcomm "MDM9615" chip that Apple may use, is supposed to solve this.

Anandtech Why no LTE in iPhone...

However, those chips aren't SUPPOSED to be available until Q2. So, I take the rumor of iPhone5's that have LTE, in Spring, with a big grain of salt.

This comment was edited on Jan 26, 2012, 21:00.
 
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18. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 20:00 SectorEffector
 
Having both is redundant to some, I can see that. Most of the flak I'm reading here is pure lunacy.

"$46.3 billion in sales, and net income reached $13.1 billion"
"iPhone Accounting for 80% of AT&T Smartphone Sales Last Quarter"

Apparently all the "hipsters" and "jobs poster kissers" point the wheel of technology heading a certain direction.

sidenote: fuck ID. Rage was jawdropping garbage.

PS: Brutal Doom mod is where its at for all you doom lovers.

 
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17. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 19:29 eunichron
 
I'd have to say having a smartphone and a tablet is a bit redundant, since every app that you can get on an iPhone/Android phone is available on tablets anyway. I have contemplated dumping my Droid X for a touchscreen dumbphone and picking up an Android tablet, since the tablet will be better for web browsing and games, and the dumbphones are just as capable for quick access things like calendar, daily planner, etc.  
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16. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 16:41 PropheT
 
Verno wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 13:31:
I don't get this at all, what apps and smartphone are you using? Get specific usage apps for your needs and there are many great offerings for pretty much anything you can imagine. Browsing the web is fine as long as the site has a mobile version and most of the popular ones do these days. Zooming and stuff sucks on regular sites but it's easy enough to do.

I don't worship my smartphone like some people but it is a very useful tool to do many different tasks. If you don't have a need for that then fair enough but surfing and using apps are fine on most smartphones these days. If you have no need of the functionality due to having other devices for it then you're not really the intended market for it.

I have a Droid X2. It's cool, I guess, I just don't think it's particularly useful. And you're absolutely right, I'm probably not the intended market for it because I don't find it to be useful. There are a multitude of apps out there, but I'm not sure I see the point of them other than as gadgets trying to find a way to make the phone useful; there isn't a single one that I've found that seems really necessary or that has had any impact on the way I use the phone.

Bandwidth caps make videos and streaming music seem pointless, and if I'm somewhere with a wi-fi network I can probably use a better device to do those things. Social media sites are apps that would make it useful, but I don't really participate to any meaningful degree. Books, PDF's, and documents are all things that are useful for a handheld device but the iPad or Kindle Fire are both so much better for this that I'd only use the phone if there was no other option.

It's fun to play with when I'm bored and waiting somewhere, but that's about it. I think the only other thing I really use it for is to compare prices if I go shopping somewhere.
 
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15. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 16:26 Cutter
 
If you hate America, humanity, and the environment, support Apple.
 
Avatar 25394
 
"Bye weeks? Bronko Nagurski didn't get no bye weeks, and now he's dead… Well, maybe they're a good thing." - Moe
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14. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 16:24 kanniballl
 
I used to think the same thing: why have both a smartphone and a tablet. Then I was forced to use an iPad for a while at work and started to like it.

Sure, I CAN browse the net quickly on my phone... but it's more of a strain on the eyes.

So I got myself an iPad with some gift money and I've liked it. I just leave it on my night-table or near the TV and grab it when I want to read something quick, check the weather, google / wiki something, etc. Just basic / casual stuff. Anything that requires too much typing I'll go over to my PC and start using that.


Meanwhile, it's more solid than any real notebook. I can semi-throw it on the cough and not worry about it... while a laptop has the screen-hinge as well as a HDD.

Is it perfect? No
Is it worth the cash if you can only choose between laptop/tablet? HECK NO

But it's nice.
 
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
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13. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 26, 2012, 16:20 Parallax Abstraction
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 15:50:
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 11:20:
No way they'd launch the iPhone 5 that early.

Actually some folks at Verizon were telling our employees that take care of the phones that the iPhone 5's may come out in Spring... LTE support and all (along with the iPad 3's).

/shrug

We'll see... but LTE (and a person being in an area with LTE) would be about the only reason to upgrade.

I would be stunned to see them do this but with Jobs no longer helming things, who knows. I've heard the biggest problem with LTE right now is all the current chipsets are huge battery hogs. I wonder how Apple will solve this. It would just really surprise me because with the 4S being by far the best-selling iPhone yet, why would they want to cannibalise that by releasing another model before sales of that one slow down? It wouldn't surprise me if they're planning to launch a new Verizon specific iPhone 4S with LTE support but I doubt it will be the iPhone 5.
 
Parallax Abstraction
Geek Bravado | YouTube
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