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Evening Metaverse

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16 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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16. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 6, 2012, 19:48 Dades
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 6, 2012, 09:14:
Seriously... that is what I don't get. How does having one or two of their own licenses help if they get in a licensing dispute?

This is getting a bit exasperating, don't just pose the idea, take it to the logical conclusion. Everyone starts somewhere and they don't need to make enough content to compete with every studio as a whole, just some individually and play them off each other. They don't license content from HOLLYWOOD INC, they do it from individual studios who understand that have Netflix over a barrel. If they suddenly see Netflix making 10 shows and getting the rest of their content from competitors then they will be forced to compete in some shape or form.

Your solution seems to be that they just give up, keep giving Hollywood money until they're bankrupt and not even try to build their own library because you think it's tough. Of course it's tough, it's a multi-billion dollar industry and Netflix is playing for the long haul instead of becoming the streaming version of Myspace.

Your solution will never work, they can't just give Hollywood whatever it wants because there will be no end to the demands. 2 years ago the content licenses cost 95 million, this year it's one billion. 2 years from now it'll be 15 billion if they don't do anything to put the brakes on Hollywood's gravy train.
 
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15. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 6, 2012, 19:07 Sepharo
 
Hulu is already ahead in this regard. They have shows that are wholly their own and they also have shows that are off air that they've purchased the broadcast rights to.  
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14. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 6, 2012, 09:14 wtf_man
 
If you guys happen to check this thread this far back...

Dades wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 23:37:
It doesn't need to be vast, it just needs to exist for all of the many reasons I've already explained. It's also so that they have something to show people if they ever get into a licensing dispute which isn't exactly unheard of.

Seriously... that is what I don't get. How does having one or two of their own licenses help if they get in a licensing dispute?

I mean come on... I've got these two shows... you've got 2000 shows and movies... if you don't cut me a good deal, I'm going to take my 2 shows and go home. (That is, if you were broadcasting my piddly 2 shows in the first place). So, you laugh and tell me to go pound sand.

Do you see where I'm having trouble imagining that this situation will help them negotiate contracts?

Sepharo wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 21:29:
It's preparation for the future as well.

I kind of get that. But it takes so long to build a decent library, and there's already a ton of competition out there. It's sort of like someone buying Web OS from HP and trying to break into the Smart Phone market right now. Chances are... they'll lose their ass and not make a dent in the market. However, having the IP, is a resalable asset... so I get that part. But if they make a failed stab at the market... the IP is usually worth less than they invested, because it got devalued.
 
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13. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 23:37 Dades
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 21:13:
Without a vast library of their own (which took HBO a fairly long time to build one), I really don't think the content providers will feel all that threatened. It's kind of like pissing in the wind.

/shrug

It doesn't need to be vast, it just needs to exist for all of the many reasons I've already explained. It's also so that they have something to show people if they ever get into a licensing dispute which isn't exactly unheard of. You've said all you care about is prices and content, well the prices went up because of the content. They can spend some money now to produce some original content and save themselves from being extorted billions in two years for renewal rights, that saves you money too.

If you want higher prices then they should keep doing what you're saying and giving Hollywood whatever they demand and pass the buck to the consumer. Sites like Hulu show that the studios can and will move into Netflix's market space. Rather than being killed off by the source of the content itself, they are trying to diversify. I'm not sure how to explain any better than that.

Look I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset with Netflix for being boneheaded last year. Totally makes sense and I was frustrated too. I'm also not trying to paint them as the knight in shining armor but they provide a lot of value for the money and are certainly the lesser evil choice when weighed against Hollywood.

This comment was edited on Jan 5, 2012, 23:44.
 
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12. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 21:29 Sepharo
 
It's preparation for the future as well. I saw a (probably misattributed) quote from Steve Jobs, that went something like "Horse carriage makers went out of business when cars came along because they thought of themselves in the horse carriage market instead of the transportation market." Point is they should have adapted to the market, and that's what Netflix is doing. The studios will soon improve and mature their own digital distribution channels and Netflix could be left behind. So as the studios invade Netflix's business, Netflix will invade the studios' business.  
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11. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 21:13 wtf_man
 
Dades wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 17:32:
If they start becoming a direct competitor to the content producers then it allows them more bargaining power over contract terms including price which directly affects you as a consumer. The studios know that Netflix is dependent on them for content but as that dependency is threatened so is their bargaining position. Netflix is poised as the premier video streaming site as traditonal media distribution sources start to wane. The last thing the studios want to do is have people begin to get their media somewhere else.

Without a vast library of their own (which took HBO a fairly long time to build one), I really don't think the content providers will feel all that threatened. It's kind of like pissing in the wind.

/shrug
 
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10. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 17:32 Dades
 
I still don't understand how making one series is going to make content providers drop prices. Nor if they made 10 series. The Content providers are still going to charge what they want. If they DO turn into another HBO... (a few movies plus their own content) then they'll get dumped for Blockbuster's streaming or some other similar service.

Netflix is a big customer of studio products first of all. If they start becoming a direct competitor to the content producers then it allows them more bargaining power over contract terms including price which directly affects you as a consumer. The studios know that Netflix is dependent on them for content but as that dependency is threatened so is their bargaining position. Netflix is poised as the premier video streaming site as traditonal media distribution sources start to wane. The last thing the studios want to do is have people begin to get their media somewhere else.

I don't use Netflix for NEW content. I use Netflix as a video store rental... without having to actually go to the store. Changing the Service from that premise is not what is desired by most folks, IMO.

They aren't permanently changing anything so far and really why would it matter as long as you can get your media fix? This is a PR move to tell the content studios to stop dicking them around and an attempt to see if it's realistic for them to produce their own content in case the studios go to war with Netflix.
 
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9. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 15:58 wtf_man
 
Dades wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 10:10:
wtf_man wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 09:25:
I understand that. That's why it pisses me off that they are spending the money on creating a series instead of buying content.

I'm sorry but you clearly don't understand it. Spending more money on content doesn't solve the problem. They've already been doing that, they are spending over a billion dollars this year alone on it. Hollywood keeps upping the prices and giving shittier licensing contract terms to efforts that they aren't spear heading.

I meant that I understood that the rate hikes were due to their increased cost.

I wasn't claiming to understand how making their own series will make them have more negotiating power.

I still don't understand how making one series is going to make content providers drop prices. Nor if they made 10 series. The Content providers are still going to charge what they want. If they DO turn into another HBO... (a few movies plus their own content) then they'll get dumped for Blockbuster's streaming or some other similar service.

I don't use Netflix for NEW content. I use Netflix as a video store rental... without having to actually go to the store. Changing the Service from that premise is not what is desired by most folks, IMO.

I don't know what the answer is to keep the prices/contracts reasonable, but making their own series isn't going to affect the content providers that already own a vast library... which is what most people want access to.
 
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8. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 10:10 Dades
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 09:25:
I understand that. That's why it pisses me off that they are spending the money on creating a series instead of buying content.

I'm sorry but you clearly don't understand it. Spending more money on content doesn't solve the problem. They've already been doing that, they are spending over a billion dollars this year alone on it. Hollywood keeps upping the prices and giving shittier licensing contract terms to efforts that they aren't spear heading. They can't keep throwing money at Hollywood because it's a bottomless hole that will never be satisfied. They needed to do this to show Hollywood they can't keep being unreasonable or other companies will start making their own content and cutting them out.

Netflix making some original content doesn't automatically turn them into HBO 2.0. The studios want all sorts of stupidly one sided deals with short life spans, high prices and lots of regional restrictions. Netflix had to stand up to them a bit otherwise they would have kept getting railroaded which would lead to more rate hikes for you and less choice. Netflix won't even be profitable this year, I think we've punished them enough now for poor choices. Making some original content is a great choice for all of the reasons mentioned and then some, not a poor one.
 
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7. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 09:25 wtf_man
 
Dades wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 07:16:
That rate hike had nothing to do with profit margins and everything to do with costs, their licensing costs are now over ten times higher than two years ago.

I understand that. That's why it pisses me off that they are spending the money on creating a series instead of buying content.

PHJF wrote on Jan 5, 2012, 02:29:
Any show on HBO is worth ten thousand shows on cable, so more power to Netflix.

Sorry... I couldn't care less about HBO's own content. I wouldn't pay a dime for their channel when I had Satellite. So if Netflix turns into an HBO... then yes, I will have to dump Netflix and look for a service that is similar to how is Netflix now.
 
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6. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 07:16 Dades
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 4, 2012, 22:47:
How does making a series give them contract leverage?

By producing their own content they are able to give their own consumers unique content and it gives the studios pause in their attempt to extort unreasonable license fees out of them. If they are dependent on Hollywood for every single piece of content on their service then they have small negotiating power, particularly when it comes to the actual licensing terms.

That doesn't explain it. Especially if the "series" is a flop. I'm not paying them a fee to become their own Hollywood. I'm paying them a fee to stream content, at a time I choose, commercial free. That's what makes the service great.

Sure the series could flop but they aren't spending 100 million on every series they are going to make. They are producing some of your desired "mainstream content" along with smaller, more creative efforts that are co-funded by other companies.

They're not exactly producing Michael Bay's Transformers here so relax. What makes the service great is different for everyone and just because they are making a few series doesn't mean they will suddenly lose all of their mainstream content. I get that it's popular to bag on Netflix this year and some of that is deserved but they still provide a great service for very reasonable fees. That rate hike had nothing to do with profit margins and everything to do with costs, their licensing costs are now over ten times higher than two years ago.

This comment was edited on Jan 5, 2012, 07:48.
 
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5. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 5, 2012, 02:29 PHJF
 
So... they make their own series... and start buying less content... and end up with several series (Like an HBO)... and little to no mainstream content (which is what I'm paying them for in the first place).

Any show on HBO is worth ten thousand shows on cable, so more power to Netflix.

But yeah, there's nothing Netflix (or Red Box) can do. Studios have content. Netflix needs content. Studios extort Netflix. Netflix resolves to produce own content.

Same shit, different day.
 
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4. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 4, 2012, 22:47 wtf_man
 
Dades wrote on Jan 4, 2012, 21:27:
Netflix has several years of great decisions to offset a few bad ones they made last year. If you're so reactionary that you can't see the bigger picture then I suggest cancelling your account but I wouldn't hold out much hope of the studios or cable companies treating you any better.

How does making a series give them contract leverage?

If they are going to pay a billion dollars to the studios then they might as well make it themselves for their own service and retain the ability to license it out to others.

That doesn't explain it. Especially if the "series" is a flop.

I'm not paying them a fee to become their own Hollywood. I'm paying them a fee to stream content, at a time I choose, commercial free. That's what makes the service great.

So... they make their own series... and start buying less content... and end up with several series (Like an HBO)... and little to no mainstream content (which is what I'm paying them for in the first place).

Yeah... that makes a lot of sense.
 
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3. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 4, 2012, 21:27 Dades
 
wtf_man wrote on Jan 4, 2012, 21:05:
Netflix to Launch New Original Series

Oh for fuck's sake. Is that what they do with our rate hikes???

How about... you know.... licensing more content.

First the double rate hike by separating DVD and Streaming service.
The the attempted renaming of the DVD service to Quickster (to potentially sell or kill off that service).
Now this.

Fuckin' idiots.

I think you need to do more research into this, you really don't get what they're doing here. They are using this to give them leverage in licensing contract agreements with the studios. The cost of Netflix's licenses was something like 100 million two years ago and it's supposed to be over a billion this year. They can't keep being held hostage by the studios who never liked Netflix to begin with and are now bending them over a barrel and starting their own streaming services. If they are going to pay a billion dollars to the studios then they might as well make it themselves for their own service and retain the ability to license it out to others.

Netflix has several years of great decisions to offset a few bad ones they made last year. If you're so reactionary that you can't see the bigger picture then I suggest cancelling your account but I wouldn't hold out much hope of the studios or cable companies treating you any better.
 
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2. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 4, 2012, 21:20 Prez
 
Last I heard they were going to fund development of future seasons of the wildly popular "Arrested Development" seasons. Given that, I am not ready to lambast them on this move. It's an innovative solution to the problem of idiotically stupid TV and movie companies and their moronic and antiquated contracts. Never have I seen an industry so naturally predisposed to avoiding giving the markets they supposedly serve what they want.

I'm rooting for Netflix here.
 
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1. Re: Evening Metaverse Jan 4, 2012, 21:05 wtf_man
 
Netflix to Launch New Original Series

Oh for fuck's sake. Is that what they do with our rate hikes???

How about... you know.... licensing more content.

First the double rate hike by separating DVD and Streaming service.
The the attempted renaming of the DVD service to Quickster (to potentially sell or kill off that service).
Now this.

Fuckin' idiots.
 
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