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Mobilization

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19. Re: Mobilization Dec 29, 2011, 11:00 nin
 
However, I have experienced Windows 8 "in action", and it is absolutely horrid.

That said.. I am willing to play with a Windows 7 phone, just for trying to keep an open mind about the interface, but I really can't see how the experience could be that much better, after experiencing the abomination that is known as the "Windows 8 Developer Preview".

We had it running on a machine here at work, and it was indeed ass.
 
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18. Re: Mobilization Dec 29, 2011, 10:58 wtf_man
 
Enahs wrote on Dec 29, 2011, 00:16:
I will be the first to admit, in static pictures and even in videos, the Windows Phone (Metro interface) looks horrible. But really, I highly recommend you not judge it solely on that. It is absolutely wonderful and fantastic to use in reality, on a phone. I do not think it would be great for a PC, maybe tablet, but not a PC, but I am not judging there until I try.

Well... I'll re-iterate... I have not tried it on a phone and do not know what the touch / gesture advantages are, if any.

However, I have experienced Windows 8 "in action", and it is absolutely horrid.

That said.. I am willing to play with a Windows 7 phone, just for trying to keep an open mind about the interface, but I really can't see how the experience could be that much better, after experiencing the abomination that is known as the "Windows 8 Developer Preview".

The next time I upgrade my phone, which should be this spring, I'll check out the Windows 7 phones. (I don't personally know anyone that has one now - they're all IOS or Android)
 
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17. Re: Mobilization Dec 29, 2011, 10:51 Dades
 
But even though my phone is quite old, it runs smoother then ANY andorid phone you can find me, included custom roms. There are legit technical reasons, and ample post by Google engineers explaining why this is the case.

Define runs smoother. Even my "old" Nexus S running ICS is perfectly smooth and never hitches or runs into performance problems. It gets really solid battery performance as well. I don't play games on the thing but it can do that along with almost everything else I can imagine. I'm not an Android fanboy, it has many faults but WP/Metro don't offer any compelling reason for users to switch to an entirely different platform. When they have a great one already and a bunch of apps they like it's going to take something serious to get them to switch.

No one is prejudicing this because it's Microsoft, it's simply yet another phone platform. Consumers don't care because no one has given them a reason to, they're perfectly happy with what they have already and it's going to take some real innovation to change that.
 
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16. Re: Mobilization Dec 29, 2011, 10:09 Enahs
 
killer_roach wrote on Dec 29, 2011, 01:06:

I'd agree with that. In usage it's a bit weird until you get the hang of it, but it's quite useful. Not enough to pry me away from Android or iOS (I use both - a Samsung Galaxy S II and a 4th-gen iPod Touch), but it is a lot better than people give it credit for.

Biggest problem, IMO, is the languid, stagnating closed hardware set Microsoft insists for WP7. Without particularly ground-breaking industrial design, impressive hardware specs, or low prices to bring customers in, it currently seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

The thing is, there is NOTHING stopping Samsung or HTC, etc, putting in killer hardware. The Focus S is just the Galaxy S II, but with stripped down hardware. Same design, internal structure, just a slower processor. And the thing is, because WP7 is so optimized, it does not need the dual core CPU to run 1000X smother then Android.

People in Android are used to focusing on high end specs for a good experience, and that is just NOT required for a WP7/7.5 system.

So not having a dual cores is NOT a disadvantage, it is an advantage, as the battery life can be better. The manufactures, are however, doing other things. No where near enough storage space is my largest complaint of these 2nd gen WP7 devices. I still use a first gen with 40gb of space, and 2nd gens are no more then 16gb! But even though my phone is quite old, it runs smoother then ANY andorid phone you can find me, included custom roms. There are legit technical reasons, and ample post by Google engineers explaining why this is the case.

As for the other end, Microsoft has modified the hardware requirements to include other form factors, as well as allow for lower priced hardware, etc. In the "western world" it is about high specs, because that is what people are trained for from Android, despite the fact that it is fairly irrelevant because the system is so well coded. They are going for low cost in the rest of the world.
 
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15. Re: Mobilization Dec 29, 2011, 01:06 killer_roach
 
Enahs wrote on Dec 29, 2011, 00:16:
I will be the first to admit, in static pictures and even in videos, the Windows Phone (Metro interface) looks horrible. But really, I highly recommend you not judge it solely on that. It is absolutely wonderful and fantastic to use in reality, on a phone. I do not think it would be great for a PC, maybe tablet, but not a PC, but I am not judging there until I try.

But really, before completely ruling out the interface on the phone you have to try it. It is, by far, the most fantastic interface and user experience from any system I have ever used; and it is pretty hard to find a system I have not used. They shot themselves in the foot, because it is such a wonderful interface but impossible to make look good through pictures.


Feel free to have whatever opinion you want, that is the great thing about choices. But being prejudice because it is Microsoft, or being negative because you do not think it looks pretty in pictures, only shows your ignorance towards how you interact with the world and perceive it.

Try it, on the phone, and then hate it if you really do.

I'd agree with that. In usage it's a bit weird until you get the hang of it, but it's quite useful. Not enough to pry me away from Android or iOS (I use both - a Samsung Galaxy S II and a 4th-gen iPod Touch), but it is a lot better than people give it credit for.

Biggest problem, IMO, is the languid, stagnating closed hardware set Microsoft insists for WP7. Without particularly ground-breaking industrial design, impressive hardware specs, or low prices to bring customers in, it currently seems to be a solution in search of a problem.
 
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14. Re: Mobilization Dec 29, 2011, 00:16 Enahs
 
I will be the first to admit, in static pictures and even in videos, the Windows Phone (Metro interface) looks horrible. But really, I highly recommend you not judge it solely on that. It is absolutely wonderful and fantastic to use in reality, on a phone. I do not think it would be great for a PC, maybe tablet, but not a PC, but I am not judging there until I try.

But really, before completely ruling out the interface on the phone you have to try it. It is, by far, the most fantastic interface and user experience from any system I have ever used; and it is pretty hard to find a system I have not used. They shot themselves in the foot, because it is such a wonderful interface but impossible to make look good through pictures.


Feel free to have whatever opinion you want, that is the great thing about choices. But being prejudice because it is Microsoft, or being negative because you do not think it looks pretty in pictures, only shows your ignorance towards how you interact with the world and perceive it.

Try it, on the phone, and then hate it if you really do.
 
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I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
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13. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 19:31 JohnnyRotten
 
Dades wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 17:44:
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 17:36:
Why should they what? You're missing the point. The question is "why isn't there consumer interest if it's a good product?"

You're the one missing the point. Being not terrible when your competitors are both great and entrenched isn't enough. ...

Agree completely.

I'd like to add that anything MS does that is perceived as "consumer friendly" is really about control through a walled garden. Manufacturers and carriers don't have the option to customize the device, because that customization might move the consumer away from the MS monetization ecosystem

I also believe that the huge consumer distrust of anything Microsoft doesn't help them either.
 
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12. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 18:39 wtf_man
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 17:36:
As for Windows 8, it indeed looks hideous. For one, there's too much color. But people that keep installing it and expecting to use Metro on their 24" monitor are idiots. That interface is for use on tablets and touchscreens, not typical desktops. You can't have the same interface for both. Microsoft tried that for years and failed. Mice and fingers interact with systems in different ways. So should there be two different OSs? I'd speculate "probably," but Microsoft doesn't seem to think so.

Well... A few things...

Obviously Microsoft expects people to use Metro on a Desktop or non-touch Laptop, otherwise they wouldn't force it as a "Start Screen". Even if they do make it easier to "turn off" in the future, I bet it will be "On by default". - Because THEY are the idiots, in this case.

Even on a larger Tablet screen, I'm sure it will look just as hideous. I think they broke out the "Playschool WinXP designer" for this one. It can be somewhat subdued with a black background and a consistant color for the squares... but it's still fugly, IMO... and you know Microsoft will go with the default look of the Loud colors that they have with the Windows 8 preview... Why? - Because THEY are the idiots, in this case.

They also want you to buy Metro Apps just as much on a non-touch system as a phone or tablet. That's the whole idea... copy Apple's App Store, and get revenue from the 3rd party apps. It's the same thing as OSX Lion having that fugly IOS-Like Launchpad and the new MAC App Store. The next step will be IOS stuff natively working on a Mac (without developer tools). THIS is the step that Microsoft is trying to skip ahead to, with Windows 8... Metro Apps are mobile Apps that will work both on mobile devices and PC's with a Microsoft controlled App Store. In theory... that's great for Microsoft and end users, especially if you can install your apps on more than one device... however, the execution with the Fugly interface is the major problem. Why? - Because THEY are the idiots, in this case. - Thinking that this FUGLY SHIT looks good.
 
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11. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 17:44 Dades
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 17:36:
Why should they what? You're missing the point. The question is "why isn't there consumer interest if it's a good product?"

You're the one missing the point. Being not terrible when your competitors are both great and entrenched isn't enough. Windows Phone brings nothing new to the table, it's just another Microsoft catch up product that has no innovation. There is no compelling reason to use windows phone and so consumers aren't using it, not exactly a shocker.
 
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10. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 17:36 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 17:14:
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 15:05:
The question is "why" not "what."

Derp. The question is why should they, not "why". Windows Phone brings nothing to the table that consumers can't get elsewhere.

Why should they what? You're missing the point. The question is "why isn't there consumer interest if it's a good product?"

Bhruic wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 17:23:
To sum up that article: WP7 respects consumers and picks their side in battles and is losing the war for it.

To correctly sum up that article: Microsoft tried to shaft phone companies, and they wouldn't put up with it.

I'm happy with that. Verizon has killed how many beneficial advances on cellphones? They killed any option of tethering or hotspots for years. They're killing Google Wallet. They've made cellphone advances difficult at the expense of the consumer.




As for Windows 8, it indeed looks hideous. For one, there's too much color. But people that keep installing it and expecting to use Metro on their 24" monitor are idiots. That interface is for use on tablets and touchscreens, not typical desktops. You can't have the same interface for both. Microsoft tried that for years and failed. Mice and fingers interact with systems in different ways. So should there be two different OSs? I'd speculate "probably," but Microsoft doesn't seem to think so.
 
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9. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 17:23 Bhruic
 
To sum up that article: WP7 respects consumers and picks their side in battles and is losing the war for it.

To correctly sum up that article: Microsoft tried to shaft phone companies, and they wouldn't put up with it.
 
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8. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 17:14 Dades
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 15:05:
The question is "why" not "what."

Derp. The question is why should they, not "why". Windows Phone brings nothing to the table that consumers can't get elsewhere.
 
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7. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 17:01 TurdFergasun
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 16:24:
wtf_man wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 16:08:
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 15:05:
Dades wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 14:46:
Consumers lack of desire for Windows Phone is what is killing it.

Derp.

The question is "why" not "what."

To join Dades, and answer "why" with "what"... Because it's got an incredibly FUGLY interface... as does Windows 8's Start Screen / Metro Apps.

Critics mostly disagree.
Have you seen it in action?


Is this really considered "not fugly?"
[img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b2z-zNRXL._SY176_SX92_.jpg[/img]
Best selling phone on Amazon. Ugly as hell interface in pictures. A mindless muddle of colors and images with no coherence and tons of dead space where you'd expect functionality.

critics are mostly industry shills.
 
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6. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 16:43 wtf_man
 
I have no experience with it on a phone, so I don't know what the "gesture functional advantages" are, if any.

However, I have installed the Developer Preview of Windows 8, and I couldn't stand the Start Screen / Metro stuff. Thankfully there is a way to disable that shit in the registry... and with hope, in the future there will be a way to disable it in the control panel for a non-power user.

So, I really don't give a shit what "most critics" are saying... because they are either being trendy or they are smoking something whacky, if they think that interface looks good. A bunch of bland texted / loud colored rectangles and squares looks like absolute total shit, IMO.

I'm not sure what phone you linked... it's too small for my screen to tell.
But THIS: Windows 7 Phone is Fugly.
It's just not as bad on a 3-4 inch screen as it is on a desktop monitor: Windows 8 Start Screen

This comment was edited on Dec 28, 2011, 17:07.
 
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5. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 16:24 Beamer
 
wtf_man wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 16:08:
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 15:05:
Dades wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 14:46:
Consumers lack of desire for Windows Phone is what is killing it.

Derp.

The question is "why" not "what."

To join Dades, and answer "why" with "what"... Because it's got an incredibly FUGLY interface... as does Windows 8's Start Screen / Metro Apps.

Critics mostly disagree.
Have you seen it in action?


Is this really considered "not fugly?"
[img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b2z-zNRXL._SY176_SX92_.jpg[/img]
Best selling phone on Amazon. Ugly as hell interface in pictures. A mindless muddle of colors and images with no coherence and tons of dead space where you'd expect functionality.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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4. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 16:08 wtf_man
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 15:05:
Dades wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 14:46:
Consumers lack of desire for Windows Phone is what is killing it.

Derp.

The question is "why" not "what."

To join Dades, and answer "why" with "what"... Because it's got an incredibly FUGLY interface... as does Windows 8's Start Screen / Metro Apps.
 
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3. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 15:05 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 14:46:
Consumers lack of desire for Windows Phone is what is killing it.

Derp.

The question is "why" not "what."
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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2. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 14:46 Dades
 
Consumers lack of desire for Windows Phone is what is killing it.  
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1. Re: Mobilization Dec 28, 2011, 13:06 Beamer
 
To sum up that article: WP7 respects consumers and picks their side in battles and is losing the war for it.


I'd agree. They have many, many consumer-friendly decisions, avoiding issues with the manufacturer (who I care little for) and the carrier (who has been driving me insane since my first phone.) Android is willing to bend over backwards for both, and Apple just does what's best for itself.
 
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