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Game Reviews

IGN Opinion: The Time for 10s.

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16. Re: Game Reviews Dec 6, 2011, 06:01 InBlack
 
This article has it all ass backwards, can you believe that this fucker has the balls to say that there is more and more quality titles being released that warrant perfect scores???

Any discussion about more games warranting perfect scores falls flat on its face when the scaling system is totally fucked up to begin with in the first place.

I mean seriously when was the last time anyone saw a game rated below 7/10???

I wouldnt give MW3 more than 7/10 and yet that score would probably get me fired from any "reputable" online or print journal.
 
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15. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 21:39 Bhruic
 
But as I said, if you don't use 10, you still have an upper limit.

I don't have a problem with giving a game a 10 (beyond the number system itself). I have a problem with giving out liberal 10s. 10s should be very rare, not 1/11 games, as you first suggested.
 
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14. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 20:00 Quboid
 
Bhruic wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 18:41:
Saying a game is as good as its ever going to get is absolutely stupid, but saying it's head and shoulders above its peers is not.

Which is nothing but rewording what I said. If you say a game is a 10/10, then there can't be any better games. It's impossible, by the scaling system, for there to be a game that's better than perfect. So if you give a game a 10/10, and next month you play a game that you think is better, what are you going to give it? We aren't talking about your hypothetical (and useless) "what would you give Doom today" scenario.

The whole point of a scoring system is comparison. There's no point to it otherwise. A game that gets a 8/10 is supposed to be better than a game that got a 6/10. While that's often not necessarily the case, thanks to the way reviews work, it's the way the system is designed to work. So if you have a comparison system with an upper limit, by definition, nothing can be better than that upper limit. Which is why that upper limit should be rarely, if ever, used. Once used, you've effectively set that bar, and anything else that comes across can't be considered "better" - otherwise you just invalidate your scoring mechanism.

All of this just highlights the relative stupidity in using such a system. Instead of giving games scores, review summations should just focus on the "pros/cons" system, or having single-sentence summations to give general overviews. The way the scoring system is used makes it a waste of time anyway.

But as I said, if you don't use 10, you still have an upper limit. What if you give a game 9.9 and a better one comes along? Give it 9.91? That's not very elegant. I don't see giving a game 10/10 as absolute perfection, unless your uses a huge number of significant figures - in which case, I don't imagine any game ever would get 10/10 as something would drop it down to 9.9999999999999/10. However, that 10/10 is there, it is obtainable, it is technically possible to achieve. In any scale, it would be very rare, even if you just use integers.

I like review scores because I like to see how well the game is considered without any kind of spoiler. A quick pros and cons list is preferable as long is it is totally spoiler free, I would like to see more of that.
 
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13. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 19:28 Trevellian
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 14:41:
Bhruic wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 14:14:
FWIW, if the scale is the 11 integers between 0 and 10, I'd say about 1 out 11 should get a 10.

Well, it's not, as most review sites use real numbers (ie, 9.5, etc).

The problem with giving a game a 10/10 is that there's no room for improvement. You can't give a game a 10.5/10. So once you've given a 10, you've basically said that the game is as good as a game is ever going to get. And that is highly unlikely.

For the same reason you'll almost never see a game get 0/10, almost no game should get a 10/10.


Disagreed. You aren't saying as good as its ever going to get. Reviews are a snapshot in time, and they're relative. Saying a game is as good as its ever going to get is absolutely stupid, but saying it's head and shoulders above its peers is not.

Take virtually any great game and advance it 5 years and its terrible. Take Doom. Doom was amazing at launch, and I would have had no problem giving it a 10 out of 10 then. But if released now it would be lucky to get a 2 out of 10. Autoaim? Please, thanks consolization! What's with the blocky graphics? Why do I have to keep criss-crossing the level, where they too lazy to create more content so they keep reusing this? Why can't I look up and down? Where's the plot, the story, or the characters? Monsters in closets, really? Sure, just keep spawning stuff behind me, that's not cheap. Why is the AI so dumb that it just stands there and shoots? What kind of idiotic space marine agency builds these terrible bases, was the architect on acid? What do these rooms even get used for? Why is this base built of so many separate buildings, all with lakes of acid? Where do the space marines eat or even poop? 2 out of 10!

Doom was a perfect game for its time. Doom II proved it could have gotten better. Quake proved it could still get better.

I disagree wholeheartedly.
Doom is a perfect game for ANY time.
I still boot up jDoom when I get bored of everything else being released... except Skyrim.
 
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12. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 18:41 Bhruic
 
Saying a game is as good as its ever going to get is absolutely stupid, but saying it's head and shoulders above its peers is not.

Which is nothing but rewording what I said. If you say a game is a 10/10, then there can't be any better games. It's impossible, by the scaling system, for there to be a game that's better than perfect. So if you give a game a 10/10, and next month you play a game that you think is better, what are you going to give it? We aren't talking about your hypothetical (and useless) "what would you give Doom today" scenario.

The whole point of a scoring system is comparison. There's no point to it otherwise. A game that gets a 8/10 is supposed to be better than a game that got a 6/10. While that's often not necessarily the case, thanks to the way reviews work, it's the way the system is designed to work. So if you have a comparison system with an upper limit, by definition, nothing can be better than that upper limit. Which is why that upper limit should be rarely, if ever, used. Once used, you've effectively set that bar, and anything else that comes across can't be considered "better" - otherwise you just invalidate your scoring mechanism.

All of this just highlights the relative stupidity in using such a system. Instead of giving games scores, review summations should just focus on the "pros/cons" system, or having single-sentence summations to give general overviews. The way the scoring system is used makes it a waste of time anyway.
 
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11. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 18:00 Halo
 
jacobvandy wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 16:42:
I agree that a game only gets a 10 if it's flawless. Skyrim might be the most fucking amazing game released this year, but it's got plenty of issues, so it doesn't deserve a perfect score.

I had a course with a grading scale similar to todays reviewing. Every five points was a letter grade, so anything below an 80 was an F. Which is how todays games Devs and publishers see it. It's like day care where everybody gets a gold star.
 
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10. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 16:42 jacobvandy
 
I agree that a game only gets a 10 if it's flawless. Skyrim might be the most fucking amazing game released this year, but it's got plenty of issues, so it doesn't deserve a perfect score.  
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9. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 15:46 Quboid
 
JaguarUSF wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 15:37:
You don't have to worry about giving 10s when you score games out of eight!

I should have known you'd pop up

I like your scoring, you give full marks an appropriate number of times. Do you ever give zeroes? Would you ever?
 
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8. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 15:37 JaguarUSF
 
You don't have to worry about giving 10s when you score games out of eight!  
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7. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 15:01 Quboid
 
Bhruic wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 14:14:
FWIW, if the scale is the 11 integers between 0 and 10, I'd say about 1 out 11 should get a 10.

Well, it's not, as most review sites use real numbers (ie, 9.5, etc).

The problem with giving a game a 10/10 is that there's no room for improvement. You can't give a game a 10.5/10. So once you've given a 10, you've basically said that the game is as good as a game is ever going to get. And that is highly unlikely.

For the same reason you'll almost never see a game get 0/10, almost no game should get a 10/10.

That's always going to be the case. If you use 0.5's and give a game 9.5 and a better one comes along, then what? If you use 0.1's and give a game 9.5 and, hypothetically, half a dozen increasingly good games come along?

Choose a scale, be it 5 stars, 10 points or 100 percent - then use it all, even zero.
 
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6. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 15:01 eunichron
 
Jim Sterling from Escapist had a pertinent rant video a few weeks ago on this subject. Though, in his video he's ranting about readers complaining about game reviewers handing out 8/10's, as if that was a bad thing.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4966-Hate-Out-Of-Ten

He brings up a very good point though, that is the scale becomes meaningless when 8-10/10 becomes "normal." In reality, an 8-10/10 should mean an outstanding, GOTY worthy, game. A 5-7/10 should just be average to above average, i.e. a game worth playing.

But now with 8/10s and 80/100s becoming the undeserved norm, the scales have lost their meaning. I, for one, would support a move for reviewers to get rid of the scoring scales completely and focus on discussing the strong points and weak points of a game, rather than give a PR marketing article and slap a ridiculous number on it at the end.
 
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5. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 14:41 Beamer
 
Bhruic wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 14:14:
FWIW, if the scale is the 11 integers between 0 and 10, I'd say about 1 out 11 should get a 10.

Well, it's not, as most review sites use real numbers (ie, 9.5, etc).

The problem with giving a game a 10/10 is that there's no room for improvement. You can't give a game a 10.5/10. So once you've given a 10, you've basically said that the game is as good as a game is ever going to get. And that is highly unlikely.

For the same reason you'll almost never see a game get 0/10, almost no game should get a 10/10.


Disagreed. You aren't saying as good as its ever going to get. Reviews are a snapshot in time, and they're relative. Saying a game is as good as its ever going to get is absolutely stupid, but saying it's head and shoulders above its peers is not.

Take virtually any great game and advance it 5 years and its terrible. Take Doom. Doom was amazing at launch, and I would have had no problem giving it a 10 out of 10 then. But if released now it would be lucky to get a 2 out of 10. Autoaim? Please, thanks consolization! What's with the blocky graphics? Why do I have to keep criss-crossing the level, where they too lazy to create more content so they keep reusing this? Why can't I look up and down? Where's the plot, the story, or the characters? Monsters in closets, really? Sure, just keep spawning stuff behind me, that's not cheap. Why is the AI so dumb that it just stands there and shoots? What kind of idiotic space marine agency builds these terrible bases, was the architect on acid? What do these rooms even get used for? Why is this base built of so many separate buildings, all with lakes of acid? Where do the space marines eat or even poop? 2 out of 10!

Doom was a perfect game for its time. Doom II proved it could have gotten better. Quake proved it could still get better.
 
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4. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 14:14 Bhruic
 
FWIW, if the scale is the 11 integers between 0 and 10, I'd say about 1 out 11 should get a 10.

Well, it's not, as most review sites use real numbers (ie, 9.5, etc).

The problem with giving a game a 10/10 is that there's no room for improvement. You can't give a game a 10.5/10. So once you've given a 10, you've basically said that the game is as good as a game is ever going to get. And that is highly unlikely.

For the same reason you'll almost never see a game get 0/10, almost no game should get a 10/10.
 
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3. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 14:07 Suckage
 
Maybe they need extra Publisher's advertizement money?  
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2. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 13:34 Quboid
 
Fion wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 13:21:
No IGN, no game should get a 10. Unless it is nearing flawlessness in every way. From the games art direction, music, fun factor, design, etc. A ten should be withheld from all but the most spectacular games and I'd personally give perhaps one or two games a year, perhaps not even that, a 10.

Unfortunately even games I'd give a 5 to get four dozen tens before the title is even released!

So reviewers that give a 10 are wrong because you'd give them a 5? Don't the reviewers have their own opinion? The title might not be released for you but reviewers get early access. Has Sam Prescott given more than 1 or 2 games a 10 anyway?

There's plenty of corrupt reviews and reviewers out there, but we increasingly collectively deserve what we get.

FWIW, if the scale is the 11 integers between 0 and 10, I'd say about 1 out 11 should get a 10.
 
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1. Re: Game Reviews Dec 5, 2011, 13:21 Fion
 
No IGN, no game should get a 10. Unless it is nearing flawlessness in every way. From the games art direction, music, fun factor, design, etc. A ten should be withheld from all but the most spectacular games and I'd personally give perhaps one or two games a year, perhaps not even that, a 10.

Unfortunately even games I'd give a 5 to get four dozen tens before the title is even released!
 
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