Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 21:57:
This is what is so maddening about the PC elitism here - you guys do not understand that experience != objective.

If you do not care about that it does not objectively improve the experience.

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 21:57:
If you do not care about that it does not objectively improve the experience.

You just look for the negatives in everything. Why do you bother gaming then?

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 17:24:
Which are still considered bad for you:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_19/b4177071221162.htm

It's bad to keep that posture all day long. When you're reclining there's some weight supported by your upper back and your legs. When you're in an office chair it's mostly all your butt and spine, with a little bit by your upper back.
This is why many offices are starting to create standing desks, too, which is better for circulation.

"Short of sitting on a spike, you can't do much worse than a standard office chair,"

Bhruic wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 17:55:

To me, that was amazing to see, and I explained to my son that it's the little details like that, which make a good game great.

It's little details like that that make the game really annoying. I'm sitting there fighting a dragon, and 90% of the people are going about their daily lives, completely ignoring it. I kill it, everyone walks away, shrugging their shoulders. But it starts to glow and then I absorb the soul, and suddenly everyone comes running over like it's a freaking miracle.

If you're going to have people react, don't have them react in a completely unrealistic way. Instead of making it "cool", it breaks immersion.

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 21:57:
This is what is so maddening about the PC elitism here - you guys do not understand that experience != objective. How an experience is rated is defined on what someone cares about.

And not everyone cares about what you do.

It doesn't miss the point, and I did not bring up the price part. I just said many people don't feel like paying for graphics

Many people don't even know where to go to buy a graphics card other than Best Buy or Walmart.

Jerykk wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 18:55:

I'll give you draw distances, but I fail to see how the ability to tweak or having more graphics options improves gameplay.

I turned off the compass because I like exploring and the compass basically ruins that. I also turned off health and magicka regen because they made the game too easy and potions redundant. I also turned off archery aim assist because it felt weird. I also turned off mouse acceleration and V-sync, which helped make the controls significantly more responsive.

These are all tweaks that improved gameplay. Then I have a bunch of tweaks and mods that improve the visuals, which are an important part of the overall experience.

PC gaming is an objectively superior experience. Higher resolutions, higher AA, higher AF, higher-res textures, higher framerates, faster and more precise controls, more flexibility, tweaks, mods, etc. Whether or not you care about any of those things is irrelevant but you can't really debate the fact that it is superior.

Sepharo wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 20:25:
Can someone link me to some evidence that couches are healthier than good desk chairs because that's probably one of the craziest things I've ever heard.

I've never had a couch that I could recline further in than my desk chair so Beamer's example is a bit strange. Unless I'm laying on the couch I've actually found sitting on couches to be a rather uncomfortable experience. Couch cushions are usually too big to be sat in properly unless you have a small couch, so you either end up with dangling feet or empty space/no support in the lumbar area which then causes lower back pain.

So is the whole lumbar support thing just a sham? We're better off sitting on couches which tend not to have lumbar support?

Bhruic wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 18:51:

Or you can buy a $200 console and plug it in. Yes, you can't do work on it, or buy on Amazon, but cheap laptops sell more than desktops.
Why? Because people like using them while sitting on the couch.

Oh, good, an example that does nothing to address the point. Who cares about laptops vs desktops? It's completely irrelevant to the issue of PCs vs consoles. A PC can do everything a console can do. A console can't do everything that a PC can do. Your argument was that people don't want to spend lots of money on PCs. Dev (correctly) pointed out that PCs don't cost nearly as much as you were suggesting they do.

So, if you want to disprove that point, either explain why PCs cost more than they actually do, or stop using price as a selling point for consoles.

Oh, and as an aside, it's amusing that someone who has claimed that people don't want to use a mouse and keyboard when they are sitting on the couch is now trying to suggest that people get laptops (with keyboards and trackpads) to use on the couch. No, don't bother with consistency, we don't expect it from you.

Sepharo wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 20:25:
Can someone link me to some evidence that couches are healthier than good desk chairs because that's probably one of the craziest things I've ever heard.

I've never had a couch that I could recline further in than my desk chair so Beamer's example is a bit strange. Unless I'm laying on the couch I've actually found sitting on couches to be a rather uncomfortable experience. Couch cushions are usually too big to be sat in properly unless you have a small couch, so you either end up with dangling feet or empty space/no support in the lumbar area which then causes lower back pain.

So is the whole lumbar support thing just a sham? We're better off sitting on couches which tend not to have lumbar support?

I'll give you draw distances, but I fail to see how the ability to tweak or having more graphics options improves gameplay.

Or you can buy a $200 console and plug it in. Yes, you can't do work on it, or buy on Amazon, but cheap laptops sell more than desktops.
Why? Because people like using them while sitting on the couch.

Dev wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 18:14:

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 12:44:
Except that many no longer want to buy a decent GPU or CPU

Except thats not required for majority of games (in large part because of obsolete consoles holding back game development). Thats what many people still think about when they think of PC's and gaming and then choose to go console, but its not the case and hasn't been for years.

Buy some of the cheapest deals out there for PC's going on sale at places like dell or best buy (such as a $300 desktop). They are almost always 64 bit with multicore nowadays. Throw in a $50 on sale graphics card (one that price range CAN be low profile and low power so it can fit into the small cases with lower wattage power supplies), and suddenly it can play most games at decent resolutions (720p and 1080p) and detail, all of which are far better than consoles.

Even building your own, you can do a decent gaming machine for $400 or less. I've done price lists and components and links before in past posts.

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 12:44:
Except that many no longer want to buy a decent GPU or CPU

To me, that was amazing to see, and I explained to my son that it's the little details like that, which make a good game great.

Yeah sorry, as much as I'd love an Elder Scrolls game every year it's not even remotely feasible.

jimnms wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 17:13:

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2011, 16:50:
And yes, your office chair is less healthy than a couch. There are plenty of studies out there about how bad it is for the body to be upright all day long. On a couch you're reclined and your body is better supported.

Why do you have such an uncomfortable, bad for your health office chair in front of your desk then? They do make comfortable, ergonomic desk chairs.