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Skyrim and D3D Antilag

Kegetys' Misc Stuff offers several useful game-related utilities. One of these is version 1.01. of a program called D3D Antilag. Word about this is simply: "Helps reduce input latency (mainly mouse lag) in Direct3D 9 games by limiting the amount of frames rendered ahead. Can also limit the framerate." Thanks GamesDot.Org, where they note how useful this is at combating Windows 7 input lag in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

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40. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 29, 2011, 21:41 ForgedReality
 
OpticNerve wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 15:13:
Just going to post that I would not recommend doing the popular "iPresentInterval = 0 tweak in the INI file" thing to disable vsync since it seems like it has a chance of messing up various things including introducing wonky physics and npcs messing up their schedules (thus possibly messing up quest-related stuff involving schedules). Here's a thread with more information along with a fix for those of you who've already had messed up npc schedules:

Do Not Disable VSync
I haven't seen any of that happen. Either I'm lucky, or the few people who have experienced it are unlucky. Or something else is the cause....

Not sure you can nail down something like npc schedules to a framerate limiter that easily, as it's not something you can reliably reproduce, and it hasn't manifested itself for me in 83 hours.
 
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39. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 29, 2011, 21:37 ForgedReality
 
Verno wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 15:32:
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 12:27:
That's because the mouse is on a different selection, which messes it all up. They should really disable the mouse in menu screens, since it's by far the worst way to control them and it messes with the keyboard controls sometimes.

Disabling the mouse is a bandaid though, they need to address the underlying problems with the UI. They likely won't but oh well.
Why disable mouse? God you guys will complain about anything. The UI isn't THAT BAD. The only thing that's wonky is that sometimes clicking things in the menu doesn't quite work right. THAT IS ALL. You have a problem scrolling? THAT'S WHY YOUR MOUSE HAS A MOTHERFUCKING SCROLLWHEEL. It works gloriously. If you need to select shit in conversation trees or your inventory, just make sure your cursor is away from the selectable areas, and you can arrow/scrollwheel to whatever you want. It's not hard to work around the minor issues it has. It's a pathetically small thing to complain about considering how much awesome shit the game has to offer. Easily GOTY and yet you fuckers nitpick it.

This thread is full of #firstworldproblems all up in this motherfucker.
 
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38. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 29, 2011, 21:33 ForgedReality
 
bhcompy wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 09:35:
It's a single player RPG. Frame rate doesn't really matter.
Thank you for your opinion.
 
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37. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 15:32 Verno
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 12:27:
That's because the mouse is on a different selection, which messes it all up. They should really disable the mouse in menu screens, since it's by far the worst way to control them and it messes with the keyboard controls sometimes.

Disabling the mouse is a bandaid though, they need to address the underlying problems with the UI. They likely won't but oh well.
 
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion
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36. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 15:13 OpticNerve
 
Just going to post that I would not recommend doing the popular "iPresentInterval = 0 tweak in the INI file" thing to disable vsync since it seems like it has a chance of messing up various things including introducing wonky physics and npcs messing up their schedules (thus possibly messing up quest-related stuff involving schedules). Here's a thread with more information along with a fix for those of you who've already had messed up npc schedules:

Do Not Disable VSync
 
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<Insert name from upper-right corner>
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35. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 12:27 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 09:26:
It also frequently leads you to picking the wrong choices in menus despite having a different selection highlighted.

That's because the mouse is on a different selection, which messes it all up. They should really disable the mouse in menu screens, since it's by far the worst way to control them and it messes with the keyboard controls sometimes.
 
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34. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 10:25 Rossafur
 
Nvidia just released new beta drivers today that add official ambient occlusion support for Skyrim, downloading now... not sure if it will actually help performance, though. It's also supposed to fix at least some of the artifacting in BF3 and increase performance, though, so that alone should be wortwhile.

This comment was edited on Nov 28, 2011, 11:18.
 
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33. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 09:56 DeadlyAccurate
 
I've found QDInventory to be a help. Not perfect, but probably the best until mod tools come out.

Setting the favorites and assigning them number keys is annoying and inefficient, and I hate that it doesn't keep the list on-screen. Not only that, but I reassigned my F key, and it still says "F to Favorite," so I have to remember which one I set for that. I guess the devs can easily remember 8 items and the order in which they set them, even in the heat of battle, and even when they add and remove from the list frequently. Good for them. Now give me my on-screen prompts so I don't have to pause the fight all the time.

And if I ever meet the guy who designed the skills UI, I'm gonna have to remind myself it's illegal to punch him in the face.

I love Skyrim, but I hate having to fight with the UI.

This comment was edited on Nov 28, 2011, 10:03.
 
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32. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 09:50 necrosis
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 19:12:
Eh? The whole point of the UI is to make it so you never have to take your hands off WASD and the mouse.

Except for the fact that you have to press Enter to confirm a lot of things. Or press Tab to bring up the general menu overlay. Or press J to check your journal. Or press P to check your spells. Or press T to wait. Or press T to recharge enchanted weapons. Or press E to interact with things. Or press R to pick up everything. Or press / to check your skills and perks. Or press Q to bring up the "quick select" inventory.

Skyrim's UI wasn't designed to be efficient with mouse and keyboard. If it were, they would have added scroll bars because every single menu involves scrolling. And they would have supported PgUp/PgDn/Home/End to make this scrolling less tedious. And they would have allowed me to hotkey 10 items, not 8. And I would be able to hotkey these items directly from the inventory, rather than having to mark them as favorites, then hotkey them from the "quick" menu.

I have to imagine that anyone who actually likes Skyrim's UI doesn't do alchemy. Because the amount of scrolling I have to do just to make potions is ridiculous.
The UI is horrible trash designed for a controller. Realized this after playing for about 30 seconds. It is the one thing that keeps me from playing this game for 3+ hour sessions like I did with the Witcher games. The UI just drives me mad after a while and feels like I am fighting the game itself to just play.
 
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31. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 09:35 bhcompy
 
It's a single player RPG. Frame rate doesn't really matter.  
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30. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 09:26 Verno
 
Trainwreck wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 19:09:
I really don't understand the bitching about the UI. It's easy to use on the PC, and much better than both Oblivion's and Morrowind's. Much better than Fallout 3/NV as well. It's great how one can quickly equip and navigate menus without moving the left hand.

The pipboy was a terrible UI so that's not really saying much. The UI in Skyrim has a lot of wasted space and scrolling. It also frequently leads you to picking the wrong choices in menus despite having a different selection highlighted. I love Skyrim but the UI is balls to be blunt, QD Inventory is a decent first step but a lot more work is required.
 
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion
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29. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 09:10 DrEvil
 
venomhed wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 06:22:
D3D9? Who still uses that?

Dx9
Dx10
Dx10.1
Dx11 (Which I dont know that Skyrim supports)

A lot of things, thanks to the current console generation. Skyrim is DX9...
 
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28. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 06:22 venomhed
 
D3D9? Who still uses that?

Dx9
Dx10
Dx10.1
Dx11 (Which I dont know that Skyrim supports)
 
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27. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 05:26 ForgedReality
 
Kastagir wrote on Nov 28, 2011, 03:01:
ForgedReality wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 23:40:
I haven't had input lag either, but in some indoor areas, where the framerate hits triple digits, that's where horizontal and vertical mouselook gets wonky for some reason.

I run ultra settings (with some ini tweaks to make it look even better), and before the 4gb loader for Skyrim came along, I would get the dreaded purple textures and fairly frequent crashes. I hope that gets fixed in the next patch so everyone can stop complaining about crashing and stuff due to the game hitting the 2gb memory ceiling. If you're not crashing, it's because you're using lower settings, or you're running the large address aware loader. This shouldn't have made it past QA.

I'm not crashing and I'm not using any mods, injectors or excessive tweaks. I adjusted the INI to add tree shadows and allow arrows to hit things at max draw distance. That's about it, and I'm on Ultra settings with AA and FXAA enabled. I've seen less than 1 crash every 10-12 hours of play and I've never hit the 2GB limit. I'm also not sure how you're getting triple digit FPS unless you've disabled VSync. There was a reason Bethesda didn't provide an option to disable VSync.

I use a 24" widescreen CRT at 2304x1440@80hz. I run with vsync disabled as much as possible. No real reason for it to be on. Your card is always rendering frames whether or not you ever see them, so why not let its power be actually put to use?
 
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26. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 03:49 qsto
 
What do we need this for? Nvidia drivers have the exact same function: Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames, no? I've always set it to 1. Couple that with my "zero lag" LP3065 S-IPS, I'm pretty much lag free.

The only issue causing lag in Skyrim was the forced vsync. Couple that with forced acceleration and you've got yourself a control clusterfuck. Luckily fixing this took only couple of .ini tweaks.

Only thing that makes the controls feel weird right now is the framerate bound vertical mouse speed. In some areas, stuff like waterfalls, mist etc. really kill my framerate, meaning under 60fps. That's when the mouse starts to feel laggy, but it has nothing to do with input lag.

Bigger issue are the physics that break when you pass 120fps. You start getting all sorts of weird poltergeist phenomena with the clutter. I'm using Dxtory to cap my framerate at 100, and the mouse controls are mostly CoD -like fluid. Why 100, you say, when the display is 60Hz? To mitigate tearing, when having disabled vsync...
 
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25. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 03:01 Kastagir
 
ForgedReality wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 23:40:
I haven't had input lag either, but in some indoor areas, where the framerate hits triple digits, that's where horizontal and vertical mouselook gets wonky for some reason.

I run ultra settings (with some ini tweaks to make it look even better), and before the 4gb loader for Skyrim came along, I would get the dreaded purple textures and fairly frequent crashes. I hope that gets fixed in the next patch so everyone can stop complaining about crashing and stuff due to the game hitting the 2gb memory ceiling. If you're not crashing, it's because you're using lower settings, or you're running the large address aware loader. This shouldn't have made it past QA.

I'm not crashing and I'm not using any mods, injectors or excessive tweaks. I adjusted the INI to add tree shadows and allow arrows to hit things at max draw distance. That's about it, and I'm on Ultra settings with AA and FXAA enabled. I've seen less than 1 crash every 10-12 hours of play and I've never hit the 2GB limit. I'm also not sure how you're getting triple digit FPS unless you've disabled VSync. There was a reason Bethesda didn't provide an option to disable VSync.
 
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24. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 02:30 StingingVelvet
 
ForgedReality wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 23:40:
I haven't had input lag either, but in some indoor areas, where the framerate hits triple digits, that's where horizontal and vertical mouselook gets wonky for some reason.

You really need to limit your framerate to 60. Anything above that causes all kinds of weird issues.
 
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23. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 01:09 Rossafur
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 23:30:
Go into your data/textures folder and move it somewhere, then try to run the game. Still having the problem? If so then it's your drivers/settings or the game needs a compatibility patch for your system. If it fixes the problem then either your overloading your VRAM with too many HQ textures or your running a texture mod with bugs/leaks.

Realistic Smoke and Embers

Didn't notice any difference in FPS after disabling the biggest texture pack. Lowering shadows from ultra to high made a big difference it seems, though... spend far more time around the 60 fps lock now. Still hoping the next patch has some performance improvements, and that Nvdidia actually has some performance improvements in their "November" driver update too...
 
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22. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 00:30 Jerykk
 
As mentioned before, you're really splitting hairs. Most of those things are within reach of the standard WASD placement (unless you have freakishly small hands), you can press E or click for anything that requires Enter, and the other few things can be rebound to one of the keys around WASD that aren't in use (like X, V, G).

I don't really have an issue with the hotkeys, though I can see how it would be problematic for left-handed people. I do have an issue with the amount of scrolling I have to do in all the menus, however.
 
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21. Re: Skyrim and D3D Antilag Nov 28, 2011, 00:13 jacobvandy
 
ForgedReality wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 23:40:
I haven't had input lag either, but in some indoor areas, where the framerate hits triple digits, that's where horizontal and vertical mouselook gets wonky for some reason.

Vertical sensitivity changes in proportion to your framerate; if that shoots up to triple digits in a shop or a small cave, you'll be bobbing your head like you're at the Roxbury. No idea why that is, but using the frame limiter will prevent it.

Jerykk wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 19:12:
Except for the fact that you have to press Enter to confirm a lot of things. Or press Tab to bring up the general menu overlay. Or press J to check your journal. Or press P to check your spells. Or press T to wait. Or press T to recharge enchanted weapons. Or press E to interact with things. Or press R to pick up everything. Or press / to check your skills and perks. Or press Q to bring up the "quick select" inventory.

As mentioned before, you're really splitting hairs. Most of those things are within reach of the standard WASD placement (unless you have freakishly small hands), you can press E or click for anything that requires Enter, and the other few things can be rebound to one of the keys around WASD that aren't in use (like X, V, G).
 
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