Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier

Though plans for a PC edition of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier was previously confirmed by Ubisoft, PC Gamer has word that the next installment in the Ghost Recon series is for consoles only, and that PC gamers will get Ghost Recon Online instead, which is apparently Ubisoft's new approach to PC piracy following their almost universally despised always-on DRM. Here's word from Ghost Recon Online producer Sébastien Arnoult:

We are giving away most of the content for free because there’s no barrier to entry. To the users that are traditionally playing the game by getting it through Pirate Bay, we said, ‘Okay, go ahead guys. This is what you’re asking for. We’ve listened to you – we’re giving you this experience. It’s easy to download, there’s no DRM that will pollute your experience.’

We’re adapting the offer to the PC market. I don’t like to compare PC and Xbox boxed products because they have a model on that platform that is clearly meant to be €60’s worth of super-Hollywood content. On PC, we’re adapting our model to the demand.

“When we started Ghost Recon Online we were thinking about Ghost Recon: Future Solider; having something ported in the classical way without any deep development, because we know that 95% of our consumers will pirate the game. So we said okay, we have to change our mind.

We have to adapt, we have to embrace this instead of pushing it away. That’s the main reflection behind Ghost Recon Online and the choice we’ve made to go in this direction.

View
173 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 4.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ] Older >

113. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:54 ^Drag0n^
 
Teddy wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:37:
^Drag0n^ wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:14:

Keep rationalizing stealing. I hope that works out for you. Even my 5 year old niece sees what is wrong with that logic.

^D^

Then your 5 year old niece has some piss poor teachers if no one has bothered to explain proper logic. Then again, apparently you haven't got a clue what logic is either, so you're just another one of those people teaching her how to be a proper idiot.

Theft is depriving someone of something they own without their permission. Feel free to look up the definition. If you need some tutoring on what the words in that definition mean come back here and we can go through them one step at a time.

Piracy/Copyright infringement is no less illegal, but only a complete fucking retard who understands neither the law nor the definition of the word actually thinks it's 'theft'.

I think my niece's education is just fine, especially since at 5 she just barely started school two months ago.

And you're wrong on the classification of the crime. It is theft. Again:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/05/guilty-verdict/

So, again, keep rationalizing.

The real point here is "who cares?" The idiots that are running the companies are using this as an excuse to make some of the most retarded marketing decisions north of the RIAA being pulled kicking and screaming into the internet age.

^D^
 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
112. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:48 ^Drag0n^
 
WarpCrow wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:24:
Keep rationalizing Stealing. I hope that works out for you. Even my 5 year old niece sees what is wrong with that logic.

Then back it up with your own logic. If piracy is theft, why is it not prosecuted as such under the law? What has the victim lost? I don't know about InBlack, but I've got a Steam account worth thousands to prove that I'm not rationalizing my own actions, and I don't buy exclusively through Steam.

Missing your point about Steam. I have the same thing. Bears no relevance on the piracy discussion.

That said:

I'm pretty sure if you "copy" documents from a CIA server, someone will be knocking on your door. If you "borrow" a car and return it, you're still going to jail. If you pirate a video game, movie, or music, yes, you are committing a felony.

Why is the argument ridiculous? Simple: you're not reimbursing the people that worked to give you entertainment for services rendered.

People that steal games then bitch about the state of the industry are like people that don't vote, but go all in on the Occupy Movement. Hypocrites. As anyone can tell you, if a studio doesn't generate titles that bring in sufficient revenue to stay around, they will die (See: Looking Glass). Super-easy relationship between the two.

Piracy is like sneaking into a movie theater, and rationalizing it by saying "well, they're playing the movie anyway..." And yes, you can take a trip in a black and white for that.

The Plaintiffs are suing not because the crime did not occur, but, rather, because anyone can bring a civil trial to court, and the burden of proof has a different litmus test. Make no mistake, violating DCMA/copyright/patents can result in criminal trial, they just seldom do.

And, lest you think otherwise, and here's that proof:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/05/guilty-verdict/

End of line.

^D^

 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
111. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:37 Teddy
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:14:

Keep rationalizing stealing. I hope that works out for you. Even my 5 year old niece sees what is wrong with that logic.

^D^

Then your 5 year old niece has some piss poor teachers if no one has bothered to explain proper logic. Then again, apparently you haven't got a clue what logic is either, so you're just another one of those people teaching her how to be a proper idiot.

Theft is depriving someone of something they own without their permission. Feel free to look up the definition. If you need some tutoring on what the words in that definition mean come back here and we can go through them one step at a time.

Piracy/Copyright infringement is no less illegal, but only a complete fucking retard who understands neither the law nor the definition of the word actually thinks it's 'theft'.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
110. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:31 Verno
 
Then back it up with your own logic. If piracy is theft, why is it not prosecuted as such under the law? What has the victim lost?

Funny how those arguments disappear when other countries are stealing North American IP. But I digress Elf
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: South Park, Dark Souls 2
Watching: Enemy, Network, Wer
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
109. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:24 WarpCrow
 
Keep rationalizing Stealing. I hope that works out for you. Even my 5 year old niece sees what is wrong with that logic.

Then back it up with your own logic. If piracy is theft, why is it not prosecuted as such under the law? What has the victim lost? I don't know about InBlack, but I've got a Steam account worth thousands to prove that I'm not rationalizing my own actions, and I don't buy exclusively through Steam.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
108. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:23 ^Drag0n^
 
“When we started Ghost Recon Online we were thinking about Ghost Recon: Future Solider; having something ported in the classical way without any deep development, because we know that 95% of our consumers will pirate the game."

Newsflash, smart guy. Those aren't consumers. The 5% are.

^D^
 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
107. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:15 Verno
 
Equating piracy with theft is bullshit. Im not saying Piracy is not an infringement, or even that it isnt a criminal act. Im just saying that it cant and SHOULD NOT have the same weight on the scales of Justice.

People know the literal definition InBlack but that's not what they're talking about. Whether you call it copyright infringement or theft is kind of besides the point, the impact is whats both debatable and important. The label people choose is based mostly on moral steering anyway. You sound like you're rationalizing the act which is the wrong way to go with this IMO.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: South Park, Dark Souls 2
Watching: Enemy, Network, Wer
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
106. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:14 ^Drag0n^
 
InBlack wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:08:
Here some Logic 101, for those of you who are slow on the uptake:

Stealing a car is theft.

Breaking into a home and stealing a TV is theft.

Hell even getting into the cookie jar while your mothers not looking can be labeled as theft.

What do all of those have in common? Something was stolen, specifically an object that belonged to person A was taken by person B. After said deed, person A no longer possesed the said object.

Kids, do you see where Im going here?

Now lets say I could copy said objects and take those copies, would that still be theft???

If I could copy the car from the first example, and drive away in my copy would that be stealing??? In theory the person who owned the car should not really give a fuck. The AUTOMAKER though, thats another matter. They would consider that a lost sale.

Equating piracy with theft is bullshit. Im not saying Piracy is not an infringement, or even that it isnt a criminal act. Im just saying that it cant and SHOULD NOT have the same weight on the scales of Justice.

Keep rationalizing stealing. I hope that works out for you. Even my 5 year old niece sees what is wrong with that logic.

^D^

This comment was edited on Nov 25, 2011, 10:25.
 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
105. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:14 WarpCrow
 
Brilliant. Now it's not even theft.

It has never been theft. It's not even theft under the law. There is a reason people are sued for copyright infringement and not arrested for petty theft. For theft to have occurred, the victim of the crime has to have lost something. If I steal a car, the owner has one less car. If I steal a pack of chips from the shop, the shop now has one less pack of chips. If I pirate a game, the developer has not been affected in any way unless it's a case where they can leech off of the developer's bandwidth through updates, etc.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
104. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:13 ^Drag0n^
 
The argument of DRM forcing a sell-through is a fallacy. It only pisses off legitimate owners with a conscience.

If a game has an 82% piracy rate, the real question is, "how much of that 82% steal games because they can, not because they would buy them otherwise?"

It's the same old argument that's been trolled by the RIAA and MPAA for decades acainst cassette deck, VDRs, CDRs, DVDRs, and digital downloads. And it's all just a bunch of sewage written by marketing and lawyers that have no clue what is going on around them.

The people that use pirate bay will ALWAYS use pirate bay; the mistake is in looking at them as "lost sources of revenue." Why? Because they never were a revenue source to begin with. They will steal a game with zero intent to buy it, whether it costs $60 or $6.

Start interacting with your customers more. Understand what they want, what they like, and what they hate. Knock off that Arrogant attitude, and behave like a company that wants to make money and grow a consumer base, not piss off the few remaining paying customers they have by saying "screw you, people that still pay us! We KNOW you want to steal it! So we're going to give you a second-class game that is a real POS that's not WORTH stealing!"

God. It's like all the retarded rejects in basic consumer relations and marketing all moved to Montreal or something.

^D^
 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
103. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:08 InBlack
 
Here some Logic 101, for those of you who are slow on the uptake:

Stealing a car is theft.

Breaking into a home and stealing a TV is theft.

Hell even getting into the cookie jar while your mothers not looking can be labeled as theft.

What do all of those have in common? Something was stolen, specifically an object that belonged to person A was taken by person B. After said deed, person A no longer possesed the said object.

Kids, do you see where Im going here?

Now lets say I could copy said objects and take those copies, would that still be theft???

If I could copy the car from the first example, and drive away in my copy would that be stealing??? In theory the person who owned the car should not really give a fuck. The AUTOMAKER though, thats another matter. They would consider that a lost sale.

Equating piracy with theft is bullshit. Im not saying Piracy is not an infringement, or even that it isnt a criminal act. Im just saying that it cant and SHOULD NOT have the same weight on the scales of Justice.
 
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
102. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 09:54 ^Drag0n^
 
Why Ubi insists on blaming piracy for every quarter they miss sales is beyond me. Blaming a platform that doesn't generate 1/5th of the sell-throughs that the consoles do for same financial woes is equally nonsensical. And sticking your head in that dark, smelly place sure is the wrong way to address the real problem.

Try making a game that people WANT with DRM that doesn't prevent LEGAL OWNERS from playing the game. Making it sound like PC gamers are all Johnny Depp on the wild sea ot hthe internet is just BS. A gaming rig costs $1200-$5000, and you can't pirate that.

I haven't bought their games since R6:V2(1). Why? Because their DRM sucks sewer pipe, and I'll be damned if I will buy a single player game they can shut off on a whim. AssCreed isn't so compelling that I feel I need it, nor do I feel I'm missing something.

This is pretty much the last straw. Unless Gamestop has a 3-for-1 used game sale (from which UBI won't see a dollar of revenue from), UBI games are now permanently off my list of publishers I'll buy anything from. PC, XBOX, or otherwise. Period.

Get a clue, UBI. Seriously.

^D^

(1) That doesn't mean I stole them from pirate bay either. I value the security of my machine more than a free stupid video game.
 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
101. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 09:45 Verno
 
Fair enough though, maybe there's some truth to what you're saying, and maybe there just aren't that many dedicated PC gamers around anymore. That said, among so many potentials, it's a pity you have only one example. Jury's still out, I'd say, which makes me anything but trolling.

There are plenty of PC gamers around but it can't be treated exactly like console platforms. Some genres aren't traditionally well represented on the PC or don't work as well due to control considerations. A lot of publishers seem to just expect that when they put their games on the PC that they should sell X number of copies no matter what. I understand from their perspective they are just looking to recoup costs and hopefully profit but there are other factors than just having your game out there.

In the case of Ubisoft a lot of their catalog simply isn't going to sell millions of copies on the PC, they are going to need to adjust their expectations and be more selective. Turning all of their IP into online properties isn't necessarily a recipe for success though. Speaking as a consumer I don't like the constant delays with their PC releases either, I often find myself skipping their titles because I've largely forgotten them by the time they arrive. I'm also not happy about the constant DRM, I don't want to have to go digging on several forums just to find out how hard they're boning us on that front this time. They aren't consistent with it either, they change it up almost every release and it's becoming tiresome.

I think Ubisoft made a mistake with the I Am Alive announcement, that's exactly the kind of small scale downloadable title you can throw on steam and make a very respectable profit on. Ghost Recon well, it's a shame whats happened with it but I think its older audience has largely given up on it anyway so I can't fault them for trying something new.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: South Park, Dark Souls 2
Watching: Enemy, Network, Wer
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
100. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 09:35 Ventura
 
If you make the official product more convenient than the pirated one, people are more likely to buy the official one. However, publishers are forcing legitimate customers to deal with CD-keys, online activations, limited installs, constant internet connection requirements, etc.

No argument there, Jerykk. Fair call mate, and despite several having had a go in here, you're the first to have brought up what I consider to be a decent point. I'm all for them taking steps to eliminate piracy, but at the point where legitimate paying customers are having to work harder than the pirates, well, that's a problem.

Compared to console gamers being able to just throw the disk in and play, I can fully understand some of the resentment being dished out here, particularly towards Ubisoft. I haven't bought from them for a while, to be honest, and just thinking about having to stomach all of that is enough to give me a headache.

even more sick of ignorant assholes equating piracy with theft.

Brilliant. Now it's not even theft.

I'm all for a well thought out discussion on the topic, but InBlack, seriously, you have like... nothing.

Actually, I tell a lie. You have a nifty blue line, but alas, not much else.

I'll use "Splinter Cell Chaos Theory", a game that avoided being cracked for over a year, which is pretty rare

Actually, I read it was playable from day one for most people, it just required more work than usual. Seems that people had to use an app to hide their drive from the Starforce protection, in addition to something like DT to mount.

Fair enough though, maybe there's some truth to what you're saying, and maybe there just aren't that many dedicated PC gamers around anymore. That said, among so many potentials, it's a pity you have only one example. Jury's still out, I'd say, which makes me anything but trolling.

Edit: And the world of goo numbers indeed have some factual basis behind them:
http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

That was a very interesting read. Seems like they put a lot of work into finally determining an 82% piracy rate. Not quite as high as Ubisoft are stating, but still pretty high.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
99. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 09:15 Verno
 
Something about all the requests from pirate copies essentially ddosing the servers since they didn't have authentication in place.

No, in the case of Demigod they just had terrible networking code and tried a bunch of different excuses until they finally admitted it. Sure piracy happens but it is a bit much to generalize that all titles get pirated in such a large ratio and it's especially galling to do it without citing the financials of successful PC ventures to put it in context.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: South Park, Dark Souls 2
Watching: Enemy, Network, Wer
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
98. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 09:07 Dev
 
InBlack wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:45:
shponglefan wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:18:
It wouldn't surprise me if 95% of copies were in fact pirated. Didn't the World of Goo creator release stats that ~90% or so copies of his game were pirated? I dunno why people are getting their panties in a knot over that.

Why? Because its a blatant lie. There is no statistic that can show this, in fact there is NO DATA at all on this.
There is indeed data. There was a PC game recently, it might have even been project zomboid beta? Anyway, they didn't have any authentication in place for updates, and the game checked amazon cloud servers for updates, and they got charged for a crapload more downloads than were purchased.

There's been other similar cases too. For instance, I think even demigod had a similar problem on release as I recall. Something about all the requests from pirate copies essentially ddosing the servers since they didn't have authentication in place.


There's been cases like this in the past where pirated copies so outnumbered legit copies, it caused problems when devs didn't plan ahead to make sure only legit copies could access things like downloads and updates, etc.

Edit: And the world of goo (which had no DRM) numbers indeed have some factual basis behind them:
http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/
They talk about how they checked how many IP numbers submitted scores to the central score server, and it was much higher than the number of purchases (they talk about methodology and average numbers of IP's per legit customer, etc if you are curious about the numbers)

I don't know the exact % of piracy, and regardless of if its 50% (I doubt its that low) or 95%, its still a problem.

But is it the ZOMG THE SKY IS FALLING problem some companies like to say it is? No. There's still quite successful games on PC, both ports and PC exclusives.

Look at EA's financials, PC money basically equals or exceeds ANY other platform (xbox 360, ps3, wii) and is more than mobile, DS, and PSP combined.

GoG games have ZERO copy protection, if piracy was the OMG SKY IS FALLING problem people say it is, surely they would have almost no sales? Instead, they are doing so well they continually add to their catalog and are even working on getting more recent games.

Edit 2:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17350
Reflexive mentions some interesting things about their efforts to combat piracy. They quote a 92% figure but don't say where its from. Here's the interesting parts though:

we find 1 additional sale for every 1,000 less pirated downloads.
...
The sales to download ratio found on Reflexive implies that a pirated copy is more similar to the loss of a download (a poorly converting one!) than the loss of a sale.

Though that doesn’t make a 92% piracy rate of one of our banner products any less distressing, knowing that eliminating 50,000 pirated copies might only produce 50 additional legal copies does help put things in perspective.


This comment was edited on Nov 25, 2011, 09:28.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
97. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 08:51 WarpCrow
 
shponglefan wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:20:

I highly doubt that. I bet most people pirate for the same reason they pirate anything: to avoid paying real money.

And I think people like you are projecting. As a paying pirate, and one who knows many of the same, I see a different situation. If the industry wants to minimize piracy and inflate sales, they have to:

1. Make buying and playing games easy and convenient, and let the consumer decide how they'll do it. Region locks should be rare or nonexistent. Services like Steam, GFWL, and Origin should not be forced on the consumer, nor should intrusive DRM. As soon as the pirate has an easier and more convenient time acquiring and playing the game, the studios have made a big mistake.

2. Stop charging sixty bucks for a linear, eight hour experience with zero replayability. People will pay a reasonable price for decent games, but sixty bucks will give anyone pause and make them wonder if the purchase they're about to make is really worth it.

3. Stop treating your customers like criminals. I pay for games because I want to, not because I have to, because I want to support a particular developer or do my part to make a particular style of game profitable. Piss me off enough and supporting you becomes much less of a priority.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
96. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 08:45 InBlack
 
shponglefan wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:18:
It wouldn't surprise me if 95% of copies were in fact pirated. Didn't the World of Goo creator release stats that ~90% or so copies of his game were pirated? I dunno why people are getting their panties in a knot over that.

Why? Because its a blatant lie. There is no statistic that can show this, in fact there is NO DATA at all on this.

The fact of the matter is that console titles outsell their PC port counterparts at a ratio of 6 : 1. Sometimes even as far as 10 : 1.

Publishers take this number and then state as a MATTER OF FACT that the reason for this is piracy. Its complete and utter bullshit.
 
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
95. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 08:44 Verno
 
shponglefan wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:22:
If their games sucked so bad, people wouldn't pirate them either. They just wouldn't play them at all. The "games suck" = "poor sales/high piracy" meme has to die. Their games, on average, are decent; on par with most other companies' offerings.

This is incorrect, downloads are not necessarily people, in fact much of the piracy scene is automated these days. The actual end "user" downloads are likely dwarfed by the couriering that goes on. It's also impossible to gauge intent from a download statistic. That's not to say there isn't a shitload of piracy going on but that happens to all platforms, Microsoft bans half a million users each year alone and those are just the ones who got caught. The difference is mainly that consoles have a lot more consumers and those consumers have lower buying standards than most PC consumers.

Ubisoft makes slightly above average titles with the odd high quality release but unlike other publishers they have not figured out the PC platform. It's not an emotional problem, it's just a business one and Ubisoft doesn't seem genuinely interested in solving it. I'd like to see some of their games on their PC but let's be honest, the market for things like Just Dance and even Assassin's Creed is going to be way more limited on the PC. I have no problem with them being selective about which titles to port, that just makes sense.

Continually saying that the PC isn't a viable platform just because you kept trying progressively worse DRM and made your customers out to be criminals isn't a productive way to do business though. It's also simply not the truth, the PC is a very viable and profitable platform to do business on.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: South Park, Dark Souls 2
Watching: Enemy, Network, Wer
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
94. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 08:38 DedEye
 
The thought occurs that, these days, hype is as good at selling a game as that game's actual content. Skyrim sold respectably on the PC, which is saying something, and I don't think it did so because people were watching gameplay videos and reading reviews. It's the hype that did it.

Not just these days, snakeoil sales pitches have been a large part of selling gaming software as far as I can remember (20yrs?). However I do believe that today it is easier to find out if a game sucks or not before you buy it.

People get wary after a while. Ubisoft has a track record of selling half-baked goods and quickly dropping any after release support. People might put up with this for a game they "must have" but odds are they won't buy any other prodcts from that company.

Years ago I used to pre-order every game I was even remotely interested in. A few dozen coasters later and I learned my lesson

Gamers have become smarter consumers. If the company was pushing crap and relying on hype and marketing to move it, their bottom line will have steadily dropped over the past number of years.

I think in Skyrim's case there are many other important factors however. For example, it is building on an already well established franchise (going back to TES: Arena) so people have a fair idea what to expect even outside the hype.

 
Avatar 14820
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
173 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 4.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo