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No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier

Though plans for a PC edition of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier was previously confirmed by Ubisoft, PC Gamer has word that the next installment in the Ghost Recon series is for consoles only, and that PC gamers will get Ghost Recon Online instead, which is apparently Ubisoft's new approach to PC piracy following their almost universally despised always-on DRM. Here's word from Ghost Recon Online producer Sébastien Arnoult:

We are giving away most of the content for free because there’s no barrier to entry. To the users that are traditionally playing the game by getting it through Pirate Bay, we said, ‘Okay, go ahead guys. This is what you’re asking for. We’ve listened to you – we’re giving you this experience. It’s easy to download, there’s no DRM that will pollute your experience.’

We’re adapting the offer to the PC market. I don’t like to compare PC and Xbox boxed products because they have a model on that platform that is clearly meant to be €60’s worth of super-Hollywood content. On PC, we’re adapting our model to the demand.

“When we started Ghost Recon Online we were thinking about Ghost Recon: Future Solider; having something ported in the classical way without any deep development, because we know that 95% of our consumers will pirate the game. So we said okay, we have to change our mind.

We have to adapt, we have to embrace this instead of pushing it away. That’s the main reflection behind Ghost Recon Online and the choice we’ve made to go in this direction.

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173 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 3.
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133. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 12:46 Tumbler
 
Meh, maybe they'll do the console crowd a favor and cancel the game there as well. This franchise needs to be shelved for a few years. It needs a reboot. Next console gen maybe.  
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132. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 12:23 shponglefan
 
Verno wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 12:12:
If we're only looking at end user pricing then we're not looking at inflation.

Except that I'm comparing prices now with prices in the past. My point was that games are cheaper now. That's it. So in that regard, inflation must be factored in. You can't compare a $45 game from 1990 with a $60 from 2011 without adjusting for inflation. People complaining about a $60 game today forget that if prices of games actually kept up with inflation, we'd be paying over $80 a game, not $60.

On that point, there is nothing for anyone to disagree with because it's simply a base fact. So I don't see what you're trying to argue.
 
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131. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 12:22 ^Drag0n^
 
Fletch wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 12:11:
Jerykk wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 06:33:
Technically, they don't actually own it. Ownership is a legal term. They simply possess it. In any case, I agree that most people won't buy something they already have. The question is whether or not pirates would have bought what they have had it not be freely available. I'd say no. People are cheap. They are also lazy. If you make the official product more convenient than the pirated one, people are more likely to buy the official one. However, publishers are forcing legitimate customers to deal with CD-keys, online activations, limited installs, constant internet connection requirements, etc. Meanwhile, pirates don't have to deal with any of that. Publishers will never beat pirates when it comes to pricing but they can beat them when it comes to convenience. Just look at the success of Steam. Ubisoft needs to learn that treating customers like thieves isn't going to increase their sales.

THIS!

+1


100% agreement. And while I was taking the blowhard route to it, it's pretty much what I was trying to say, too.

^D^
 
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130. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 12:20 Fletch
 
Elim wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:22:
How sad, we won't get a dumbed down console shit game.
R.I.P. Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six.

Another reason why PC games sell less than consoles. Make better PC games, get more PC sales.

 
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129. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 12:12 Verno
 
shponglefan wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 11:59:
But the cost of making the game/volume is irrelevant because we're not looking at costs or profit margins. We're only looking at end-user pricing. Which is why comparisons to prior pricing on an inflation-adjusted basis is entirely relevant.

I see what you're saying but I don't agree with that statement, it's like trying to have your cake and eat it too. If we're only looking at end user pricing then we're not looking at inflation. The cost of anything is what the market is willing to bear, it has no inherent value beyond that especially when we're talking about intellectual property and not a tangible good. If you want the consumer to consider inflation and that they're getting a better deal now than years ago then likewise you have to consider that the industry makes a lot more money than it used to by having considerably more sources of revenue and a larger overall audience.

At the end of the day, as PC gamers, we get to look at what they are doing and determine if it looks like something we want to be part of or not. If their online games are shit, well, off to other games. If they are good, then we can play them. Focusing on whether their piracy numbers are accurate or not, especially with no evidence to be had, is a waste of time.

Agreed. Ubisoft is convinced and that's all that matters, all people can do is show them that they're wrong by spending their money with competitors. It sucks maybe missing out a few good franchises but there it is.

Anyways really good discussion and lots of good points all around with surprisingly little hostility.
 
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128. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 12:11 Fletch
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 06:33:
Technically, they don't actually own it. Ownership is a legal term. They simply possess it. In any case, I agree that most people won't buy something they already have. The question is whether or not pirates would have bought what they have had it not be freely available. I'd say no. People are cheap. They are also lazy. If you make the official product more convenient than the pirated one, people are more likely to buy the official one. However, publishers are forcing legitimate customers to deal with CD-keys, online activations, limited installs, constant internet connection requirements, etc. Meanwhile, pirates don't have to deal with any of that. Publishers will never beat pirates when it comes to pricing but they can beat them when it comes to convenience. Just look at the success of Steam. Ubisoft needs to learn that treating customers like thieves isn't going to increase their sales.

THIS!

+1

 
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127. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:59 shponglefan
 
Verno wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 11:55:
I hear this one passed around frequently but it's a bit of a fallacy. It ignores the fact the market itself for gaming has grown significantly. The reason that the cost has largely stayed the same is because they are still making a lot more money to scale than they used to thanks the market being a lot larger with more platforms and revenue sources. I don't think gamers are spoiled in this regard at all, you can't just adjust things based on old inflation rates while ignoring all other factors.

But the cost of making the game/volume is irrelevant because we're not looking at costs or profit margins. We're only looking at end-user pricing. Which is why comparisons to prior pricing on an inflation-adjusted basis is entirely relevant.

Fact is, for the end consumer, gaming has gotten cheaper over the last 20 years. So complaining about pricing is, imho, moot.
 
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126. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:56 Bhruic
 
It's stupid to be framing the discussion in terms of percentages, word definitions, etc. We are talking about a company here, and what they are interested in is money. That's the framing this discussion would be better off with.

Right now, Ubisoft has convinced themselves they can make more money by going the online route than they can with stand-alone games. Why that's the case is largely irrelevant - yes, they are blaming it on piracy, but who cares? If it turns out they are correct that they can make more money going online, does it matter if they are wrong about piracy?

At the end of the day, as PC gamers, we get to look at what they are doing and determine if it looks like something we want to be part of or not. If their online games are shit, well, off to other games. If they are good, then we can play them. Focusing on whether their piracy numbers are accurate or not, especially with no evidence to be had, is a waste of time.
 
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125. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:55 Verno
 
For point #2, I can't entirely speak for games pricing. However, $60 for a game today is cheaper than games were 15-20 years ago on an inflation-adjusted basis. And in the past, you'd still get games that would last 8 hours, yet would cost more in today's dollars. I think gamers are a little spoiled in this regard.

I hear this one passed around frequently but it's a bit of a fallacy. It ignores the fact the market itself for gaming has grown significantly. The reason that the cost has largely stayed the same is because they are still making a lot more money to scale than they used to thanks the market being a lot larger with more platforms and revenue sources. I don't think gamers are spoiled in this regard at all, you can't just adjust things based on old inflation rates while ignoring all other factors.

The value proposition for the consumer is a separate matter from the profitability of games anyway.
 
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124. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:55 shponglefan
 
InBlack wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:08:
Equating piracy with theft is bullshit. Im not saying Piracy is not an infringement, or even that it isnt a criminal act. Im just saying that it cant and SHOULD NOT have the same weight on the scales of Justice.

It's more akin to counterfeiting than theft. And like counterfeiting, piracy does have the impact of devaluing the item in quesiton.
 
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123. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:52 shponglefan
 
WarpCrow wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:51:
1. Make buying and playing games easy and convenient, and let the consumer decide how they'll do it. Region locks should be rare or nonexistent. Services like Steam, GFWL, and Origin should not be forced on the consumer, nor should intrusive DRM. As soon as the pirate has an easier and more convenient time acquiring and playing the game, the studios have made a big mistake.

2. Stop charging sixty bucks for a linear, eight hour experience with zero replayability. People will pay a reasonable price for decent games, but sixty bucks will give anyone pause and make them wonder if the purchase they're about to make is really worth it.

3. Stop treating your customers like criminals. I pay for games because I want to, not because I have to, because I want to support a particular developer or do my part to make a particular style of game profitable. Piss me off enough and supporting you becomes much less of a priority.

I agree with #1 and #3. I think that when pirated games have higher value-added because of being less hassle, then publishers have failed at delivering content. And publishers do need to focus on paying customers as opposed to trying to punish the non-paying ones.

For point #2, I can't entirely speak for games pricing. However, $60 for a game today is cheaper than games were 15-20 years ago on an inflation-adjusted basis. And in the past, you'd still get games that would last 8 hours, yet would cost more in today's dollars. I think gamers are a little spoiled in this regard.
 
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122. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:49 shponglefan
 
InBlack wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 08:45:
Why? Because its a blatant lie. There is no statistic that can show this, in fact there is NO DATA at all on this.

If there's "no data", then claiming it's a lie is premature, yes? That's why I pointed that the World of Goo creator reported piracy rates of ~90%. Is he lying too?
 
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121. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:41 WarpCrow
 
Missing your point about Steam. I have the same thing. Bears no relevance on the piracy discussion.
You claimed that those who say piracy isn't theft are rationalizing stealing. I have no reason to rationalize it because I pay for games. That was my point.

I'm pretty sure if you "copy" documents from a CIA server, someone will be knocking on your door. If you "borrow" a car and return it, you're still going to jail. If you pirate a video game, movie, or music, yes, you are committing a felony.

If I borrow a car, the owner is deprived of the car for the duration, it might be damaged during my joy ride, and I am introducing wear and tear that would not otherwise be there. If I build an exact copy of someone's car and then drive away with it, I've done no harm to anyone.

People that steal games then bitch about the state of the industry are like people that don't vote, but go all in on the Occupy Movement. Hypocrites. As anyone can tell you, if a studio doesn't generate titles that bring in sufficient revenue to stay around, they will die (See: Looking Glass). Super-easy relationship between the two.

I agree with everything you've said in this paragraph. I just disagree on the line you've drawn and the connection between piracy and theft. If you equate piracy as theft, you're playing into industry propaganda that says 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. You're letting them frame the debate, and you're making it easier for them to push harmful DRM and policies of censorship.

Make no mistake, violating DCMA/copyright/patents can result in criminal trial, they just seldom do.

And, lest you think otherwise, and here's that proof:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/05/guilty-verdict/

End of line.

Agreed, piracy with the intent to resell and profit is in fact a felony and you can be sent to prison for it. Now give me an example of someone pirating music or games for their own personal use being charged with a felony. Can you? Do you not see a difference between these two hypothetical cases? Because the law does see them differently. From the very article you linked:

Not withstanding the tough talk, the operation did not target casual downloaders. Gitarts was convicted of conspiracy to violate the NET Act (.pdf), which makes it a crime to infringe a copyright "for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain"; to pirate $1,000 or more in music within 180 day period; or to distribute any pirated content before its release date.
 
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120. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:18 ^Drag0n^
 
Verno wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 11:10:
Rattlehead wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 11:05:
It's funny reading these comments and how an average gamer is suddenly a lawyer when it comes to these topics. Keep up the arguments with your pseudo knowledge of law straight from wikipedia!

We really need to have a Bluesnews vs Yahoo! comments showdown. Now that I would pay to see!

Pfft, at our worst moments we ain't got nothin on Yahoo comments man. A real showdown would be Yahoo vs Youtube comments. The world would implode from the resulting stupidity bomb.

I shudder at the very thought.

Oh, and Skyrim! ;-)

^D^
 
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119. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:15 ^Drag0n^
 
Verno wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:55:
Not that I don't sympathize with your position Drag, that case was about commercial distribution of copyrighted materials and that's a whole different ballgame.

Yeah. It looks like they're using that case to clarify legal nuance in terms of the term, though.

^D^
 
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118. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:10 Verno
 
Rattlehead wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 11:05:
It's funny reading these comments and how an average gamer is suddenly a lawyer when it comes to these topics. Keep up the arguments with your pseudo knowledge of law straight from wikipedia!

We really need to have a Bluesnews vs Yahoo! comments showdown. Now that I would pay to see!

Pfft, at our worst moments we ain't got nothin on Yahoo comments man. A real showdown would be Yahoo vs Youtube comments. The world would implode from the resulting stupidity bomb.
 
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117. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:05 Rattlehead
 
It's funny reading these comments and how an average gamer is suddenly a lawyer when it comes to these topics. Keep up the arguments with your pseudo knowledge of law straight from wikipedia!

We really need to have a Bluesnews vs Yahoo! comments showdown. Now that I would pay to see!
 
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116. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 11:04 Prez
 
It may be a point worth mentioning that the World of Goo designer never provided any hard data or either, but just expected us to take the 90% number on faith. I am just not going believe that these ridiculously high numbers have anything to do with reality just because some dude says they do.

More likely they are using grossly inflated numbers to play the sympathy card so more people may be convinced to pay for the game. Which is fine, but the numbers are still ridiculous.

it's a pity you have only one example.

The trouble is that there aren't many instances where you can compare PC and Console sales of a quality game that saw virtually no piracy on PC (I tried to run a warez copy because I hate Starforce and it didn't work). But the one example does illustrate something.

This comment was edited on Nov 25, 2011, 11:13.
 
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115. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:59 Tony!!!
 
Teddy wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:37:
^Drag0n^ wrote on Nov 25, 2011, 10:14:

Keep rationalizing stealing. I hope that works out for you. Even my 5 year old niece sees what is wrong with that logic.

^D^

Then your 5 year old niece has some piss poor teachers if no one has bothered to explain proper logic. Then again, apparently you haven't got a clue what logic is either, so you're just another one of those people teaching her how to be a proper idiot.

Theft is depriving someone of something they own without their permission. Feel free to look up the definition. If you need some tutoring on what the words in that definition mean come back here and we can go through them one step at a time.

Piracy/Copyright infringement is no less illegal, but only a complete fucking retard who understands neither the law nor the definition of the word actually thinks it's 'theft'.
No dude. It's very CLEARLY YOU who is the "Clueless Fucking Retard" who doesn't comprehend what theft is. The very WORD Piracy is theft. But cleary that is irrelevant since all you care about it getting in the last word, insulting people, and justifying theft.. And yes IDIOT, the LAW defines PIRACY as THEFT. Good GOD your Dumb.
 
-Tony!!!;)
my 360 user name is Robo Pop
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114. Re: No PC Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Nov 25, 2011, 10:55 Verno
 
Not that I don't sympathize with your position Drag, that case was about commercial distribution of copyrighted materials and that's a whole different ballgame.  
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173 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 3.
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